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Old 05-27-11, 09:15 AM   #1
Drakonchik
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Dubious Coolstand Kickstand Wins Red Dot Design Award

Really stupid kickstand design receives a prestigious design award.

Discuss.

http://en.red-dot.org/2813.html?&cHa...il=6959&year=0
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Old 05-27-11, 10:33 AM   #2
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Its an innovative design, no question about that. I see nothing wrong with it, other than most people dont actually need a stand of any sort. But its defiantly cool.
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Old 05-27-11, 10:42 AM   #3
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Now they need to find somebody who is equally as innovative at marketing to link up with.

It took me awhile to figure out how it works. I'm still working on "Why?". I think they need to answer both a lot more directly in their one page ad.
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Old 05-27-11, 10:48 AM   #4
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well it is true, universal fit, as all pedal bikes have a pedal.
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Old 05-27-11, 10:55 AM   #5
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But would it be strong enough to hold up a loaded touring bike? And will they build them out of titanium (not just titanium finish)?
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Old 05-27-11, 11:07 AM   #6
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Ok, just to stir things up a little, here's why I think it's stupid:

1. Inevitably, some rider's trouser leg will slide down over one or the other kickstand-leg, unbeknownst to rider; subsequently rider will stop at a stop sign etc, go to put his/her foot down, find their leg is snarled/fouled, and immediately rider will fall over.

2. This kickstand fastening system interferes with (and reduces the effective amount of) pedal thread. The frequent use of this kickstand with it's long levers will eventually cause loosening of the pedal threads, followed by stripped threads if not remedied. Standard 9/16" pedals thread technology has been around for the better part of a century and is "adequate" but not when you monkey around with it like this.

3. The added weight on the left crank arm will create an asymmetrical muscle effort, leading to a "weird" feeling, and interfering with trained muscle responses and conditioning, at least with experienced riders.

4. The lopsided weight will make servicing the drivetrain and wheels weird and fussy because the left crank arm will be constantly falling down under it's weight.

5. Better, safer kickstands already exist.

Not an exhaustive list I suspect.
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Old 05-27-11, 11:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Drakonchik View Post
Ok, just to stir things up a little, here's why I think it's stupid:

1. Inevitably, some rider's trouser leg will slide down over one or the other kickstand-leg, unbeknownst to rider; subsequently rider will stop at a stop sign etc, go to put his/her foot down, find their leg is snarled/fouled, and immediately rider will fall over.

2. This kickstand fastening system interferes with (and reduces the effective amount of) pedal thread. The frequent use of this kickstand with it's long levers will eventually cause loosening of the pedal threads, followed by stripped threads if not remedied. Standard 9/16" pedals thread technology has been around for the better part of a century and is "adequate" but not when you monkey around with it like this.

3. The added weight on the left crank arm will create an asymmetrical muscle effort, leading to a "weird" feeling, and interfering with trained muscle responses and conditioning, at least with experienced riders.

4. The lopsided weight will make servicing the drivetrain and wheels weird and fussy because the left crank arm will be constantly falling down under it's weight.

Not an exhaustive list I suspect.
On the other hand, it's easy to point out the flaws in somebody else's idea. Coming up with outside the box ideas, however, is hard.

I won't be buying one because they haven't convinced me that I have a problem that it would solve. I still give them credit for innovation.
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Old 05-27-11, 11:25 AM   #8
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On the other hand, it's easy to point out the flaws in somebody else's idea. Coming up with outside the box ideas, however, is hard.
It's not just easy, it's necessary. For example:

NASA engineer: "We should build a re-useable space shuttle, with ceramic tiles to prevent the vehicle from burning up on re-entry."

Armchair skeptic: "What if some of the tiles fall off?"

Anyway, I thought you were supposed to be the Retro Grouch, not belly-aching for dag-gummed innovation.

Last edited by Drakonchik; 05-27-11 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 05-27-11, 11:36 AM   #9
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On the other hand, it's easy to point out the flaws in somebody else's idea. Coming up with outside the box ideas, however, is hard.

I won't be buying one because they haven't convinced me that I have a problem that it would solve. I still give them credit for innovation.
Sometimes thinking outside the box just ends up proving why there was a box in the first place. Interesting design exercise, pointless product. Looks like another bicycle product designed by non-bicycle riders.
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Old 05-27-11, 11:54 AM   #10
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Another issue: Most "serious" cyclists don't use kickstands. Most single-speed coaster-brake cruisers do. Only on a coaster-brake bike, you can't just rotate your pedals to a handy position, which renders that kickstand useless for them.
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Old 05-27-11, 01:20 PM   #11
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It's not just easy, it's necessary. NASA engineer: "We should build a re-useable space shuttle, with ceramic tiles to prevent the vehicle from burning up on re-entry."

Armchair skeptic: "What if some of the tiles fall off?"
Though they had tiles fall off, they never caused a problem with re-entry. Columbia burnt up on reentry due to a carbon-carbon wing leading edge panel having been pierced by a piece of foam that fell of the fuel tank during take-off. Challenger blew up when leaking gas from a SRB ignited the fuel tank. The armchair skeptic would have done better to point out the risks of having the orbiter, boosters, and external fuel tank in a parallel configuration, where a flaw in one could take out the other.
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Old 05-27-11, 01:37 PM   #12
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The real advance in bike stand technolgy is the standardized braze-on mounting bracket by Plescher for a bolt-on stand.
It is lighter, stronger and better than the usual clamp-on stands.

In Europe, many, if not most, everyday, high quality commuter bikes come with a stand.
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Old 05-27-11, 04:41 PM   #13
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Though they had tiles fall off, they never caused a problem with re-entry. Columbia burnt up on reentry due to a carbon-carbon wing leading edge panel having been pierced by a piece of foam that fell of the fuel tank during take-off. Challenger blew up when leaking gas from a SRB ignited the fuel tank. The armchair skeptic would have done better to point out the risks of having the orbiter, boosters, and external fuel tank in a parallel configuration, where a flaw in one could take out the other.
Well played!
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Old 05-27-11, 04:44 PM   #14
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Really stupid kickstand design receives a prestigious design award.

Discuss.

http://en.red-dot.org/2813.html?&cHa...il=6959&year=0
Extremely dubious, to judge from the picture.
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Old 05-27-11, 05:11 PM   #15
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a step up from bringing a can or a box or using the curb to lean a pedal on..
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Old 05-27-11, 06:09 PM   #16
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a step up from bringing a can or a box or using the curb to lean a pedal on..
Leaning a pedal on a curb, if done properly and the curb (or low wall) is the right height, is more secure than any bikestand will be. So is leaning a bike up against a wall, or lying it down on the ground.

I have two flick stands in my workshop waiting to go on some town bikes, similar to the ones referred to by MichaelW. But I am still not convinced I actually will find them that useful.

With a glance at the pictures of this product, one issue that arises for me is parking the bike sideways on a slope, so the bike is not so vertical that it will topple, or is leaned over so far that it still will topple.
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Old 05-27-11, 08:10 PM   #17
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Leaning a pedal on a curb, if done properly and the curb (or low wall) is the right height, is more secure than any bikestand will be. So is leaning a bike up against a wall, or lying it down on the ground.
Oftentimes the simplest solution, even though it might be the best, is overlooked because it's so simple.

Laying your bike on the ground:
1. Doesn't cost anything.
2. Doesn't weigh anything.
3. Is 100% effective in preventing the bike from falling over.
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Old 05-27-11, 08:23 PM   #18
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Oftentimes the simplest solution, even though it might be the best, is overlooked because it's so simple.

Laying your bike on the ground:
1. Doesn't cost anything.
2. Doesn't weigh anything.
3. Is 100% effective in preventing the bike from falling over.
Yes but it's also a pain in the ass to yank on the chain down there when the chain jumps track, or fix your brakes in that position when you find the brakes have gone out, or do other maintenance. Of course I fixed the problem with my chain slipping completely off the chain rings....

It's also notable I can't lay my bike down on the non-drive side, it has to lay down on the drive side. I can't lay my bike down on the drive side, either, because it'll sit on the derailleurs.
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Old 05-28-11, 02:11 AM   #19
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Yes but it's also a pain in the ass to yank on the chain down there when the chain jumps track, or fix your brakes in that position when you find the brakes have gone out, or do other maintenance. Of course I fixed the problem with my chain slipping completely off the chain rings....

It's also notable I can't lay my bike down on the non-drive side, it has to lay down on the drive side. I can't lay my bike down on the drive side, either, because it'll sit on the derailleurs.
Pardon? Just what are you talking about?
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Old 05-28-11, 03:48 AM   #20
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Kickstands are universal on European city bikes. Outside of the big cities, everybody lines their bike up outside a shop (very precisely in Germany), supported on the stand, secured by a simple horsehoe lock.

If you dont have a stand you have to hunt around for something to lean against which is probably verbotten.
Putting your bike on the ground, driveside up is OK for a sport rider but for utility and shopping, a stand it better.
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Old 05-28-11, 05:02 AM   #21
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No kickstand here:



I rummaged around in the rear rack bag for gel, took out and replaced a water bottle, and the bike didn't move. It would be even better with a rubber band around the front brake lever.
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Old 05-28-11, 05:52 AM   #22
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3. The added weight on the left crank arm will create an asymmetrical muscle effort, leading to a "weird" feeling, and interfering with trained muscle responses and conditioning, at least with experienced riders.
This is the big one for me. I'm sorry, but there is no way that I am going to mount some floppy stand onto my left crank arm. The design is clever in that someone thought to do that, but it's hard to believe that someone who actually rides a bike came up w/the idea.

As for the design award, my take on those is that they are often given out without regard to usability.
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