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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cyclomania's Avatar
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    Hey, check this out! Bike traffic in the Netherlands!

    Sometimes when I'm out doing a shopping run, I'll be offered a free sample (cut of pizza, doughnut, cheezywiz thingy)...little do they know that behind every bite is my gasoline!

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    Senior Member bigbadwullf's Avatar
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    Wait a couple months and see what they are on Snowmobiles, skis, skates..............4WD drive cars!

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Cyclomania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    Wait a couple months and see what they are on Snowmobiles, skis, skates..............4WD drive cars!
    Sometimes when I'm out doing a shopping run, I'll be offered a free sample (cut of pizza, doughnut, cheezywiz thingy)...little do they know that behind every bite is my gasoline!

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    Heh, heh...if you want to get really jealous, search on YouTube for "Utrecht" and bicycles. The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands has an incredible network of bike lanes. In many places the bike lanes are physically separated from the roads carrying motorized traffic. During rush hour they have many thousands of bicycle commuters.

  5. #5
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banded Krait View Post
    During rush hour they have many thousands of bicycle commuters.
    Humph. Sounds like Portland.
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    Senior Member Northwestrider's Avatar
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    Yes the Netherlands are in a class by it's self. Hard to beat.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bigbadwullf's Avatar
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    That's what happens when the government forces high gas prices. And you WANT this?

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Cyclomania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    That's what happens when the government forces high gas prices. And you WANT this?
    I wonder if the netherlands had the same gas prices that we have now would they revert to driving cars more rather than bikes? Or are bikes such a part of their lifestyle that to go back to cars primarily for transport would just be uncanny. I know though, that those communities in the US that have more bike lanes and bike blvds, more people choose to ride a bike. Not just to save on gas, but for exercise (a healthier populace), producing less noise (quieter communities!), and sometimes one can get there quicker by bike. I think today's price of gas here in the US is plenty high. BBW: would you be commuting more by bike if gas prices skyrocketed?!
    Sometimes when I'm out doing a shopping run, I'll be offered a free sample (cut of pizza, doughnut, cheezywiz thingy)...little do they know that behind every bite is my gasoline!

  9. #9
    Senior Member alhedges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    That's what happens when the government forces high gas prices. And you WANT this?
    No, this is what happens with the government builds well thought out cycling infrastructure. Yes, I want this.

  10. #10
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    That's what happens when the government forces high gas prices. And you WANT this?
    The last time I was in Amsterdam (admittedly more than a decade now), I was amazed to see a '70's Cadillac Coupe de Ville convertible navigating some of the canal paths they call streets. It looked like an aircraft carrier in a bathtub. There were plenty of cars about, but the fastest vehicles in town were bicycles.

    On the way back to Germany, I ran the rental BMW up to 100mph on the autobahn, just for giggles. My wife was sleeping in the passenger seat- she never even stirred.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Cyclomania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
    The last time I was in Amsterdam (admittedly more than a decade now), I was amazed to see a '70's Cadillac Coupe de Ville convertible navigating some of the canal paths they call streets. It looked like an aircraft carrier in a bathtub. There were plenty of cars about, but the fastest vehicles in town were bicycles.

    On the way back to Germany, I ran the rental BMW up to 100mph on the autobahn, just for giggles. My wife was sleeping in the passenger seat- she never even stirred.
    Nice tale you tell my friend. We're you listening to Kraftwerk's "Wir far'n far'n far'n auf der Autobahn?" Imagine a cyclobahn! Actually, when I spent a summer in Finland, one of their freeways was being built in Helsinki 1980. Bicycles were aloud on this, believe it or not, and we were having our little Autobahn/autofree party!!!!
    Last edited by Cyclomania; 07-27-11 at 12:58 PM.
    Sometimes when I'm out doing a shopping run, I'll be offered a free sample (cut of pizza, doughnut, cheezywiz thingy)...little do they know that behind every bite is my gasoline!

  12. #12
    Senior Member JayButros's Avatar
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    I don't really remember any hills in Amsterdam.

    ...so they got that going for them too, oh and the climate.

    Non-cyclists are dropping dead here in Central VA from the heat wave.

    I could be wrong , I don't remember much from the trip ...

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    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayButros View Post
    I don't really remember any hills in Amsterdam.

    ...so they got that going for them too, oh and the climate.

    Non-cyclists are dropping dead here in Central VA from the heat wave.

    I could be wrong , I don't remember much from the trip ...
    Well, on my trip I was accompanied by my wife and parents. I wasn't about to attempt anything mind-altering.
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    Senior Member JayButros's Avatar
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    ^^^

    ...go again.


    Also, there's the density to consider as well.

    They've got 1,000,000 "downtown" and another 1,000,000 metro.

    If the US had more comparable cities, I think we'd find more bike friendly politicians on at least the local and state level. I've given up on anything National.

    My city is 200,000 and another 800,000 in the metro area. Richmond just doesn't have the density to demand a quality bike infrastructure.

    ...that being said, it's on of the oldest cities in the US and some of it was laid out before cars, it's very bike friendly. Quite even. I feel for the LAs out there.

  15. #15
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    I didn't see this earlier, I just got back from holiday but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclomania View Post
    Actually, when I spent a summer in Finland, one of their freeways was being built in Helsinki 1980. Bicycles were aloud on this, believe it or not, and we were having our little Autobahn/autofree party!!!!
    It's somewhat of a tradition here to allow bikes, peds, inline skaters, runners, whathaveyou on newly built freeways for one day, right before they open the new road for car traffic.

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    Senior Member bigbadwullf's Avatar
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    Just had a visit from some nice folks in the Netherlands. Gas: $10 a gallon. Housing market in the tank. A house that cost $300,000 a few years ago is now worth $100,000. You sure you want that? There is a reason they ride bikes and it isn't because they want to be "green". The people I met want to move here as FAST AS THEY CAN!

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  17. #17
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    My take is, they're not riding bikes because they want to be green. They're riding bikes because they can't afford to drive cars and there are so many like them that there's no social stigma. Another factor: around here, a bicycle commuter who parks outside can pretty much plan on getting his/her bike stolen at least twice per year. And that's in a 'safe' parking area. That will have to change if cycling is ever to become mainstream in the U.S.

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    vol
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    Only saw two people wearing helmets...

    Most bikes seem to have short distance between the saddle and handlebar, so the cyclist is very upright and the elbows bent.

    The cyclists ride very leisurely, unlike in the U.S. (esp. NYC) where many who ride bikes ride fast and violate traffic rules, as if to say: hey, look, I can do this!

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    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    A house that cost $300,000 a few years ago is now worth $100,000. You sure you want that? There is a reason they ride bikes and it isn't because they want to be "green".
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
    My take is, they're not riding bikes because they want to be green. They're riding bikes because they can't afford to drive cars and there are so many like them that there's no social stigma.
    Sorry, but this is a bunch of BS.

    Regarding the Dutch housing market, here's the most recent quarterly report from Rabobank I could find, May 2011. It shows the price index has fallen from 100 in 2008 to about 93 in 2011. Not exactly a 67% drop. You'll find the index in page 5 of the pdf.

    http://www.rabobank.com/content/imag...m43-141587.pdf

    And as far as car ownership goes, define "afford to". I have the means to buy several cars but I choose not to. Why? Because owning and running a car doesn't make sense for me, money-wise. I have better and more economical alternatives for transportation. Car ownership in my opinion has no value in itself. And I know quite a few people, including a few Dutch, who share that approach.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    That's what happens when the government forces high gas prices. And you WANT this?
    No, that's what happens when governments stop supporting oil industries with billion dollars per year in subsidies...

  21. #21
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayButros View Post
    ^^^

    ...go again.


    Also, there's the density to consider as well.

    They've got 1,000,000 "downtown" and another 1,000,000 metro.

    If the US had more comparable cities, I think we'd find more bike friendly politicians on at least the local and state level. I've given up on anything National.

    My city is 200,000 and another 800,000 in the metro area. Richmond just doesn't have the density to demand a quality bike infrastructure.

    ...that being said, it's on of the oldest cities in the US and some of it was laid out before cars, it's very bike friendly. Quite even. I feel for the LAs out there.
    But yet, there's enough density to support a strong network of roads for cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
    My take is, they're not riding bikes because they want to be green. They're riding bikes because they can't afford to drive cars and there are so many like them that there's no social stigma. Another factor: around here, a bicycle commuter who parks outside can pretty much plan on getting his/her bike stolen at least twice per year. And that's in a 'safe' parking area. That will have to change if cycling is ever to become mainstream in the U.S.
    Sorry. Wrong on that account. Most in the Netherlands still own a car. They just use it very little.

    And, I've never had a bike stolen from me. And, I have had my car broken into once.

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