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Thread: The shoes ruse

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    Senior Member Farmer Dave's Avatar
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    The shoes ruse

    So I found this article very interesting and would love to hear opinions from both die hard clipless pedalers as well as casual platform riders.
    http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
    Un hombre, y un destino.

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    Troublemaker Berg417448's Avatar
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    I went to clipless pedals many years ago. I tested going back to flats on my mountain bike last year and I hated it.

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    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-s-Shoes-Ruse

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-Doesn-t-Help

    Opinions a-plenty herein. Enjoy!

    Personally, I own and ride both. Platforms on the commuter/grocery getter, clipless on the cross/trail bike. If I had a road bike I'd probably put clipless on it as well, it just makes it more fun to put the hammer down.
    Last edited by GriddleCakes; 08-31-11 at 12:29 PM.

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    Before riding in any of my last three clubs, I never wore riding shoes. I now belong to a touring club. None of us wear riding shoes and most of us discovered early on, that we didn't really like clip-ons anyway.

    Another example of creating a need that never existed for the sake of profit____INGENIUS!

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    born again cyclist Steely Dan's Avatar
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    clearly, the whole pedals/shoes thing is all about personal preference. any of the various options come with their pros and cons.

    for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
    Last edited by Steely Dan; 08-31-11 at 02:16 PM.
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    Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins tagaproject6's Avatar
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    Is this like the "Aluminum Hoax" thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
    Is this like the "Aluminum Hoax" thread?
    Don't Remind Me, PLEASE!!!

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    New thing buy , Ergon pedals, nice shaped regular shoe petal.
    Big reflectors, and the slowest rotating part on a bike,
    got a permanently self lubricating bushing set,
    instead of steel ball or needle bearings.

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    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
    Is this like the "Aluminum Hoax" thread?
    Aluminum pedals are totally a hoax. Like bike helmets, Bigfoot, or fiat currency.

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    The first time I went back to platforms after using clipless for about three months I immediately noticed that my quads were much more sore than usual much earlier in the ride. Took me a little while to realize it was the pedals that caused the problem.

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    Ah, the Rivendell Retro-Grouch, ol' Grant P. Sells his way of life as hard as he sells his bikes. If 'his way' works for you too, then by all means, enjoy it. If not, then do what DOES work for you.

    There IS a notable WRONG in his private rant -- people DO pull up on the pedals with clipless. The whole 360-degree thing, is, in fact, bunk, but there is more power application with clipless than without. I experienced it personally a few years ago, after having to go back to flats for a couple weeks from my first year of clipless. My first ride, my feet FLEW off the pedals! I was forced to alter my pedaling style to keep my feet on the flats, and as a result, endured the most hideous calf cramps of my life! Shin splints from running were NOTHING in comparison!

    Just like there is no one bike that suits all, neither is there a pedal or pedal style that suits all.

    Nice try, though . . .

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    Senior Member Flying Merkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
    ...........

    for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
    Yup. I use MTB shoes for convenience. I like clipless. Two of my five bikes have regular pedals, my beach cruiser & my beater bike. Using Crank Bros. Candy-Cs, BTW.
    Last edited by Flying Merkel; 08-31-11 at 06:09 PM.

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    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    When I got my current bike, it came with platform pedals, and that's what I used for about 6 months, before I switched to clipless for the first time.

    One problem I had with platform pedals was foot numbness, and wound up buying stiffer (non-cycling) shoes just for that reason. The assumption that any shoe will work for anybody riding anywhere is just wrong.

    My overall opinion of the change is that when you are riding, clipless pedals are more convenient. When you are starting or stopping, they are less convenient. So if your riding style includes stopping every block, then you may not gain anything from going clipless. If your riding style includes riding for more than a mile in between stops, then clipless seems the way to go.

    I notice in the article, he keeps saying "If you race or ride race-like", etc, then his opinions don't apply to you. That seems fishy to me. That sounds like a weasel-way of saying "If you really do benefit from clipless pedals, then you must be a racer-guy".

    I suppose just about everybody that has ever used clipless pedals also has used platform pedals, so it's not like he's discovered something the rest of us never thought to try.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

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    Fat Guy Rolling dcrowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    Aluminum pedals are totally a hoax. Like bike helmets, Bigfoot, or fiat currency.
    Leave me out this now...
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    I think he's absolutely right. If you have good pedaling technique, then there is very little benefit to clipless for most riding situations. Sure, you can pull up on the pedals, but the amount of force you can exert in that way is minuscule compared to the downward force. If you really pull up hard, then you will probably unclip. I think the real benefit to clipless pedals come into play at high cadences, like Lance Armstrong uses. That's when you really need clipless.
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    I cannot use clipless regardless of my feelings on the subject.
    I pull up on the pedals pretty forcefully on a consistant basis, and apply force to the pedals in all sorts of interesting directions. I think it comes from a couple years of riding a 36er unicycle where pushing down is the enemy.
    Current stable: Sun Atlas X-type (mine), Trek Navigator 3 (wife), two Sun Revolution cruisers (wife, daughter)

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    Nighttime Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    Aluminum pedals are totally a hoax. Like bike helmets, Bigfoot, or fiat currency.
    Yeah, i have wide feet, so to use clipless, I'd need to buy $400-500 custom shoes.

    So, platform it is.

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    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Dave View Post
    So I found this article very interesting and would love to hear opinions from both die hard clipless pedalers as well as casual platform riders.
    What? I can't be a die-hard platform rider? Come on now...

    If you're interested in the pedal issue, get thee over to bikejames.com. He's mostly an exercise and physical-trainer type guy, but he has some thought-provoking (flame-provoking?) blog entries advocating flats.

    I don't over-think the issue too much. I prefer not being attached to the bike. I like not having to bother with shoes. I run flats without obsessing about whether they are more or less efficient than the alternative. However, I side with Mr. BikeJames in my belief that performance benefits from clipless are over-rated.

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    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
    I notice in the article, he keeps saying "If you race or ride race-like", etc, then his opinions don't apply to you. That seems fishy to me. That sounds like a weasel-way of saying "If you really do benefit from clipless pedals, then you must be a racer-guy".
    I take your point, but I believe Grant's position on racing is reasonable. He is speaking in generalities. Sure, there are enthusiasts and fit riders who will benefit from and appreciate bike designs and gear intended for racers. But in the main, many recreational riders are better served by design decisions and gear more appropriate to casual riding.

    Take seat-to-bar drop as an example. One of the strongest local racers whom I know rides with a seat-to-bar drop that would leave me with back and arm pain and flying over the bars. He is well-served by his choice, but most casual riders are better served by a more comfortable and secure position on the bike. Grant builds his brand image around the "not racing" rider.

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    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    From A Late Adopter Of Clipless

    Quote Originally Posted by Rataan View Post
    I think the real benefit to clipless pedals come into play at high cadences, like Lance Armstrong uses. That's when you really need clipless.
    I've ridden platform, toeclips, and clipless. For riding my mountain bike on single track, through water, up short impossibly-steep grades, and over obstacles, clipless is the only way to go.

    I ride clipless on my road bikes as well. However, I rode a borrowed hybrid with platforms for a week while visiting my sister and b-i-l in Tampa. It wasn't a problem and provided an okay workout.

    The real difference comes on fixed gear riding, where my rpms can get to nearly twice my comfortable rate...crazy fast...on descents. I find that I have the confidence to pedal fast without bouncing or worrying because of the clipless petals and MTB (recessed clip) shoes.

    For recreational riding, maybe it doesn't matter. It sounds to me like the author of the article doesn't ride hard enough or under challenging conditions. He'd change his tune, I think.

    PG

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    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
    The real difference comes on fixed gear riding, where my rpms can get to nearly twice my comfortable rate...crazy fast...on descents. I find that I have the confidence to pedal fast without bouncing or worrying because of the clipless petals and MTB (recessed clip) shoes.
    Buying a single-speed opened my eyes to the above issue. I can only pedal so fast without losing my grip on the pedals. I can readily see how being clipped in would be a benefit, and on fixed-gear too.

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    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    There's certainly no need to go clipless in most circumstances, but the more aggressively you ride, the more useful it is. So to that extent he is right, non-racers don't need them. He's wrong about not needing rigid soles, though, if you're going to do high mileages. The more flexible the sole, the more likely one is to get "hot foot" where the sole of tour foot gets sore from taking the pressure of the pedal. I frequently ride between 60 and 100 miles per day and I want a rigid sole for that.

    Having said that, I use clips and straps rather than clipless pedals on my FG/single speed that I use around town so that I don't have to change my shoes just to mooch down to the shops or whatever. It's horses for courses.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

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    Grant was always pretty good at rationalizing reasons for not selling something.

    SB

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    The Left Coast, USA FrenchFit's Avatar
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    I went from clipless back to track pedals, so I am one of those die hard clipless haters Grant should applaud; but I can't imagine not using some restraint system like cages or straps, or toe clips for a MTB. Just a platform and nothing else? I can't see that working for much more than a beach cruiser.

    And he's wrong about any shoe working. As others have said, a fairly rigid soled shoe makes an important difference. I can't imagine riding any distance wearing something as flexy as a running shoe.

    A cadence in the 90s is simply no problem with straps or cages, though I will revert to clipless in spin class where I'll do intervals at 120.

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    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    use what works best for you...nuff said
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

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