The shoes ruse
08-31-11, 12:05 PM
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The shoes ruse
So I found this article very interesting and would love to hear opinions from both die hard clipless pedalers as well as casual platform riders.
https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
08-31-11, 12:24 PM
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I went to clipless pedals many years ago. I tested going back to flats on my mountain bike last year and I hated it.
08-31-11, 12:25 PM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-s-Shoes-Ruse
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-Doesn-t-Help
Opinions a-plenty herein. Enjoy!
Personally, I own and ride both. Platforms on the commuter/grocery getter, clipless on the cross/trail bike. If I had a road bike I'd probably put clipless on it as well, it just makes it more fun to put the hammer down.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-Doesn-t-Help
Opinions a-plenty herein. Enjoy!
Personally, I own and ride both. Platforms on the commuter/grocery getter, clipless on the cross/trail bike. If I had a road bike I'd probably put clipless on it as well, it just makes it more fun to put the hammer down.
Last edited by GriddleCakes; 08-31-11 at 12:29 PM.
08-31-11, 01:37 PM
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Before riding in any of my last three clubs, I never wore riding shoes. I now belong to a touring club. None of us wear riding shoes and most of us discovered early on, that we didn't really like clip-ons anyway.
Another example of creating a need that never existed for the sake of profit____INGENIUS!
Another example of creating a need that never existed for the sake of profit____INGENIUS!
08-31-11, 01:56 PM
#5
born again cyclist
clearly, the whole pedals/shoes thing is all about personal preference. any of the various options come with their pros and cons.
for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
Last edited by Steely Dan; 08-31-11 at 02:16 PM.
08-31-11, 01:59 PM
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Is this like the "Aluminum Hoax" thread?
08-31-11, 02:32 PM
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08-31-11, 02:41 PM
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New thing buy , Ergon pedals, nice shaped regular shoe petal.
Big reflectors, and the slowest rotating part on a bike,
got a permanently self lubricating bushing set,
instead of steel ball or needle bearings.
Big reflectors, and the slowest rotating part on a bike,
got a permanently self lubricating bushing set,
instead of steel ball or needle bearings.
08-31-11, 02:59 PM
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08-31-11, 03:15 PM
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The first time I went back to platforms after using clipless for about three months I immediately noticed that my quads were much more sore than usual much earlier in the ride. Took me a little while to realize it was the pedals that caused the problem.
08-31-11, 05:37 PM
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Ah, the Rivendell Retro-Grouch, ol' Grant P. Sells his way of life as hard as he sells his bikes. If 'his way' works for you too, then by all means, enjoy it. If not, then do what DOES work for you.
There IS a notable WRONG in his private rant -- people DO pull up on the pedals with clipless. The whole 360-degree thing, is, in fact, bunk, but there is more power application with clipless than without. I experienced it personally a few years ago, after having to go back to flats for a couple weeks from my first year of clipless. My first ride, my feet FLEW off the pedals! I was forced to alter my pedaling style to keep my feet on the flats, and as a result, endured the most hideous calf cramps of my life! Shin splints from running were NOTHING in comparison!
Just like there is no one bike that suits all, neither is there a pedal or pedal style that suits all.
Nice try, though . . .
There IS a notable WRONG in his private rant -- people DO pull up on the pedals with clipless. The whole 360-degree thing, is, in fact, bunk, but there is more power application with clipless than without. I experienced it personally a few years ago, after having to go back to flats for a couple weeks from my first year of clipless. My first ride, my feet FLEW off the pedals! I was forced to alter my pedaling style to keep my feet on the flats, and as a result, endured the most hideous calf cramps of my life! Shin splints from running were NOTHING in comparison!
Just like there is no one bike that suits all, neither is there a pedal or pedal style that suits all.
Nice try, though . . .
08-31-11, 06:06 PM
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...........
for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
for me, it's clipless pedals and recessed cleat MTB shoes all day long. being locked onto the pedals makes bike riding much, MUCH more fun for me. i just love the feeling of being locked onto the bike; it's like the machine and i become joined as one, as though the bike were merely an extension of myself. it's a metaphysical thing (ie. hard to explain). i like the recessed cleat shoes because i can still walk around like a normal biped when i'm off the bike.
Last edited by Flying Merkel; 08-31-11 at 06:09 PM.
08-31-11, 08:54 PM
#13
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When I got my current bike, it came with platform pedals, and that's what I used for about 6 months, before I switched to clipless for the first time.
One problem I had with platform pedals was foot numbness, and wound up buying stiffer (non-cycling) shoes just for that reason. The assumption that any shoe will work for anybody riding anywhere is just wrong.
My overall opinion of the change is that when you are riding, clipless pedals are more convenient. When you are starting or stopping, they are less convenient. So if your riding style includes stopping every block, then you may not gain anything from going clipless. If your riding style includes riding for more than a mile in between stops, then clipless seems the way to go.
I notice in the article, he keeps saying "If you race or ride race-like", etc, then his opinions don't apply to you. That seems fishy to me. That sounds like a weasel-way of saying "If you really do benefit from clipless pedals, then you must be a racer-guy".
I suppose just about everybody that has ever used clipless pedals also has used platform pedals, so it's not like he's discovered something the rest of us never thought to try.
One problem I had with platform pedals was foot numbness, and wound up buying stiffer (non-cycling) shoes just for that reason. The assumption that any shoe will work for anybody riding anywhere is just wrong.
My overall opinion of the change is that when you are riding, clipless pedals are more convenient. When you are starting or stopping, they are less convenient. So if your riding style includes stopping every block, then you may not gain anything from going clipless. If your riding style includes riding for more than a mile in between stops, then clipless seems the way to go.
I notice in the article, he keeps saying "If you race or ride race-like", etc, then his opinions don't apply to you. That seems fishy to me. That sounds like a weasel-way of saying "If you really do benefit from clipless pedals, then you must be a racer-guy".
I suppose just about everybody that has ever used clipless pedals also has used platform pedals, so it's not like he's discovered something the rest of us never thought to try.
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08-31-11, 09:29 PM
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I think he's absolutely right. If you have good pedaling technique, then there is very little benefit to clipless for most riding situations. Sure, you can pull up on the pedals, but the amount of force you can exert in that way is minuscule compared to the downward force. If you really pull up hard, then you will probably unclip. I think the real benefit to clipless pedals come into play at high cadences, like Lance Armstrong uses. That's when you really need clipless.
08-31-11, 09:59 PM
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I cannot use clipless regardless of my feelings on the subject.
I pull up on the pedals pretty forcefully on a consistant basis, and apply force to the pedals in all sorts of interesting directions. I think it comes from a couple years of riding a 36er unicycle where pushing down is the enemy.
I pull up on the pedals pretty forcefully on a consistant basis, and apply force to the pedals in all sorts of interesting directions. I think it comes from a couple years of riding a 36er unicycle where pushing down is the enemy.
09-01-11, 05:44 AM
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If you're interested in the pedal issue, get thee over to bikejames.com. He's mostly an exercise and physical-trainer type guy, but he has some thought-provoking (flame-provoking?) blog entries advocating flats.
I don't over-think the issue too much. I prefer not being attached to the bike. I like not having to bother with shoes. I run flats without obsessing about whether they are more or less efficient than the alternative. However, I side with Mr. BikeJames in my belief that performance benefits from clipless are over-rated.
09-01-11, 06:17 AM
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Take seat-to-bar drop as an example. One of the strongest local racers whom I know rides with a seat-to-bar drop that would leave me with back and arm pain and flying over the bars. He is well-served by his choice, but most casual riders are better served by a more comfortable and secure position on the bike. Grant builds his brand image around the "not racing" rider.
09-01-11, 06:34 AM
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From A Late Adopter Of Clipless
I ride clipless on my road bikes as well. However, I rode a borrowed hybrid with platforms for a week while visiting my sister and b-i-l in Tampa. It wasn't a problem and provided an okay workout.
The real difference comes on fixed gear riding, where my rpms can get to nearly twice my comfortable rate...crazy fast...on descents. I find that I have the confidence to pedal fast without bouncing or worrying because of the clipless petals and MTB (recessed clip) shoes.
For recreational riding, maybe it doesn't matter. It sounds to me like the author of the article doesn't ride hard enough or under challenging conditions. He'd change his tune, I think.
PG
09-01-11, 07:22 AM
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The real difference comes on fixed gear riding, where my rpms can get to nearly twice my comfortable rate...crazy fast...on descents. I find that I have the confidence to pedal fast without bouncing or worrying because of the clipless petals and MTB (recessed clip) shoes.
09-01-11, 07:37 AM
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There's certainly no need to go clipless in most circumstances, but the more aggressively you ride, the more useful it is. So to that extent he is right, non-racers don't need them. He's wrong about not needing rigid soles, though, if you're going to do high mileages. The more flexible the sole, the more likely one is to get "hot foot" where the sole of tour foot gets sore from taking the pressure of the pedal. I frequently ride between 60 and 100 miles per day and I want a rigid sole for that.
Having said that, I use clips and straps rather than clipless pedals on my FG/single speed that I use around town so that I don't have to change my shoes just to mooch down to the shops or whatever. It's horses for courses.
Having said that, I use clips and straps rather than clipless pedals on my FG/single speed that I use around town so that I don't have to change my shoes just to mooch down to the shops or whatever. It's horses for courses.
09-01-11, 08:42 AM
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Grant was always pretty good at rationalizing reasons for not selling something.
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09-01-11, 09:02 AM
#23
The Left Coast, USA
I went from clipless back to track pedals, so I am one of those die hard clipless haters Grant should applaud; but I can't imagine not using some restraint system like cages or straps, or toe clips for a MTB. Just a platform and nothing else? I can't see that working for much more than a beach cruiser.
And he's wrong about any shoe working. As others have said, a fairly rigid soled shoe makes an important difference. I can't imagine riding any distance wearing something as flexy as a running shoe.
A cadence in the 90s is simply no problem with straps or cages, though I will revert to clipless in spin class where I'll do intervals at 120.
And he's wrong about any shoe working. As others have said, a fairly rigid soled shoe makes an important difference. I can't imagine riding any distance wearing something as flexy as a running shoe.
A cadence in the 90s is simply no problem with straps or cages, though I will revert to clipless in spin class where I'll do intervals at 120.
09-01-11, 09:16 AM
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use what works best for you...nuff said
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09-01-11, 01:05 PM
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I've only used clipless when I bought a road bike 6 years ago. After trying it for 4 years I switched back to platforms with light weight sneakers. I live in flat urban Florida with many stops and starts. Clipless pedals seemed more of an annoyance than a benefit. I'm not totally against them, in other circumstances I might try it again.