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  1. #26
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    I might but the name garners a sneer from other cyclists today. Schwinn can be used in the same paragraph with Bikes direct and no one will notice.

    I got my hands on an old Schwinn twinsport not long ago and have received advice not to put much money into restoring it. And I never saw the Varsity or Continental as a real road bike.
    Approval from "sneering" cyclists and talk about "real" road bikes were hardly a focus for the consumers of Schwinn products prior to the "bike boom" of the 1970's. Don't know that current Schwinn consumers are all that concerned today either.

    Seems much more a concern of the bike provenance obsessed/weight weenie set.

  2. #27
    Senior Member xizangstan's Avatar
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    I think they're basically disposable cheap bikes. The kind of ride you might leave locked up with a chain and Master combo padlock in an older part of town, and not worry too much about it.

    I was a kid in the '50s and early '60s, and rode a Schwinn. It was more tank than bicycle. Years later, I re-entered bicycling and got a new DiamondBack, which got stolen. Since 1995, I've been riding a GT Xizang (titanium) hardtail mountain bike. I swap my narrow road tires-wheels for my off-road knobbies or vice-versas, when I change my riding style for the day. I'm a happy camper.
    Who is John Galt?

  3. #28
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Approval from "sneering" cyclists and talk about "real" road bikes were hardly a focus for the consumers of Schwinn products prior to the "bike boom" of the 1970's. Don't know that current Schwinn consumers are all that concerned today either.

    Seems much more a concern of the bike provenance obsessed/weight weenie set.
    Don't know about that. I see a lot of posts in these forums that are anti big box bike and Schwinn fits right in those brackets. I remember the old days when Schwinn was last gasping for air and weight was only one reason for scorn. Even today do you long for a Stove pipe schwinn? I doubt it and I doubt there is a good name attached to the new schwinns either. Current Schwinn customers seem to be the same customers that buy Next and as I said Bikes direct bikes. Or do you have some indication that Schwinn has redeemed itself and the new Paramount has the same following as the old one? In the last few years I can't remember even one time someone suggesting a Schwinn when I or anyone else here asked for a bike suggestion, would you suggest one as a quality bike choice?
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  4. #29
    Senior Member Flying Merkel's Avatar
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    Harley-Davidson has a brand name that is gold. Schwinn could have been the bicycling equivalent, but fooked it up royally. No the Schwinn brand name is trash.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Slim I suggest that you look into how Schwinn buckled to the pressure by WalMart. And why there are currently two different divisions of Schwinn.
    Hey there Siu Blue Wind!

    Apparently, Walmart is Dorel's primary retail outlet store. Since Walmart is China's fifth largest export market, just behind Germany, Walmart places excruciatingly painful financial pressures upon Dorel and any other business dependent upon its strong retail attraction for the world consumer. Dorel is dependent upon OEM's to produce products that Walmart will purchase at an already predetermined price. All business parties, must therefore, meet Walmart's price, in order to do business with Walmart. That means that Dorel must ensure that all related OEM's keep labor costs down, so that they may have continued access to the huge retail magnetism of Walmart. Of course Dorel, is merely following the example that Pacific Cycle began, back in August of 2002. Pacific Cycles led the way of labor exploitation in China. Dorel though, has augmented the prohibitive labor demands placed upon its OEM workers due to its enhanced profit incentive from Walmart. At this time China has one of the cheapest labor markets in the world. The average Chinese worker makes $105 per month. There's no way that an American worker can complete with that price for labor.

    Since Schwinn is an integral part of Dorel and acts as its subsidiary, it has to remain compliant with its demands. Therefore, Dorel mandated that Schwinn make its bicycles more accessible to Walmart and at even cheaper prices. This made it compulsory for OEM's to use the cheapest materials in the production of components of all bicycles, destined for Walmart. This would include Schwinn. Dorel industries therefore, have two lines of Schwinn bicycles. One line is earmarked exclusively for Walmart and a few other big boxed bicycle depatment store outlets and come from mainland, China. The other more refined line of bicycles are made in Taiwan and are produce exclusively for local bicycle shop retail. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, Schwinn will always remain on many American cyclist's conscience, as a dysfunctionally cheap product of Walmart. A product that generates objects shaped to look most conspicuously, like bicycles.

    - Slim

    PS.

    Apparently, the Schwinn Paramount series are no longer in production, but their remaining inventory from 2011 and 2010 are still being sold by Peformance. It would appear as though, the more refined line of Schwinn, is gradually disappearing.
    Last edited by SlimRider; 10-18-11 at 06:00 PM.

  6. #31
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    Don't know about that. I see a lot of posts in these forums that are anti big box bike and Schwinn fits right in those brackets.
    You and I have different opinions on how representative the BF anti big box bike contingent are of the bicycle buying public, specifically the people who purchase the bulk of the bicycles sold in the U.S.

    I doubt if there are any lists on BF that accurately reflect a wide slice of the bicycling public. Perhaps you are of the opinion that people who purchase bicycles at big box stores are not Real Cyclists,™ and therefore their opinion on the value delivered for the price is irrelevant.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    You and I have different opinions on how representative the BF anti big box bike contingent are of the bicycle buying public, specifically the people who purchase the bulk of the bicycles sold in the U.S.

    I doubt if there are any lists on BF that accurately reflect a wide slice of the bicycling public. Perhaps you are of the opinion that people who purchase bicycles at big box stores are not Real Cyclists,™ and therefore their opinion on the value delivered for the price is irrelevant.
    It is never good to assume what opinion I might have not knowing me. Mine is not the first opinion that Schwinn no longer exists except in name. I do base my speculation on how in the middle of the largest bike boom our country had seen Schwinn lost market share because they didn't seem to see what the customer wanted. Some of the best Schwinns made other than the revamped Paramount were really Bridgestones and Panasonics. So it wasn't that they didn't know what people wanted it seems as if they felt they knew best. Once that happened the "Good" name of Schwinn started to die and only Waterford has kept the ideal of Quality alive. IMHO.

    As an example there are people still producing stories about Sherlock Holms, they are not however the same as Authur Conan Doyle.

    I don't make a considereation on what kind of cyclists wally world bike buyers are. All I can judge by is how many we see in the trash bins and being adjusted correctly in the LBS shops where I live. So I say again, the "Good" name of Schwinn was sold to a company and they simply stuck their decal on whatever they felt like. Absolutly no judgement on my part just an observation that tends to be shared by more people I know and talk to than not.

    Have you observed a different attitude in your circle of friends?
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  8. #33
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    Just an observation: I've noticed the bikes in Walmart with the Schwinn name on them are usually twice the price of the cheapest bikes they sell like Roadmaster (that was name they were using at least a couple of years ago anyway) and Next. The Schwinns also appear to me to be better bikes than the $60-$90 bottom offerings. I have in the past considered the Schwinn Avenue hybrid just to try a bike with slightly sway-back handlebars (the Avenue was around $199 a few years ago, now it is around $240).

    Not really trying to make a great point, but apparently there are consumers that are a least willing to pay a bit more in hopes of getting a better bike (or these Schwinns won't be selling while sitting beside the cheaper bikes). Maybe the uninformed (bicycle-wise) who shop at Walmart think they are getting a great (top-of-the-line) bike when they shell out the extra cash for the Schwinn name. Maybe there is hope that the "race to the bottom" that I see mentioned in these forums (which goes something like: all the masses want is cheap goods and competition for the consumers dollars leads to a constant dropping of quality) might bottom out somewhere.

  9. #34
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    ...Schwinn lost market share because they didn't seem to see what the customer wanted. Some of the best Schwinns made other than the revamped Paramount were really Bridgestones and Panasonics. So it wasn't that they didn't know what people wanted it seems as if they felt they knew best.
    Bottom Line: What percentage of Schwinns sold at any period in its history were Paramounts or equivalent "quality"? Quality obviously in your mind means high end enthusiast models sold to the relative handful of Real Cyclists who can appreciate the "quality" of this type of bike.

    I am sure that Real Cyclists™ sneer at the the great unwashed who don't "know best" and appreciate "quality" as the guys at the LBS. It is this attitude that makes them the arbiter of the Real Cyclist™ Creed

  10. #35
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Yesterday's Schwinn racing bike is today's Cannondale by Dorel. Cannondale has more international appeal, something that Schwinn never had. One may knock Dorel for this but I think that's the reality for today.

  11. #36
    Nighttime Rider
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    Schwinn Mesa and Moab, same frame, good bikes.

    You guys put way too much value on brand name.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
    Schwinn Mesa and Moab, same frame, good bikes.

    You guys put way too much value on brand name.
    ....Ya Think!

    - Slim

  13. #38
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Bottom Line: What percentage of Schwinns sold at any period in its history were Paramounts or equivalent "quality"? Quality obviously in your mind means high end enthusiast models sold to the relative handful of Real Cyclists who can appreciate the "quality" of this type of bike.

    I am sure that Real Cyclists™ sneer at the the great unwashed who don't "know best" and appreciate "quality" as the guys at the LBS. It is this attitude that makes them the arbiter of the Real Cyclist™ Creed
    And yet their customers let them fail? If they made what ther customer wanted wouldn't they still be in business? And still they are not Schwinns, made by the Schwinn family anymore than Mini cooper is still a Mini cooper now that they are a small BMW.

    What is this real cyclist thing you keep talking about? Is it some code word you use because I don't think anyone else did.

    All I believe I said was today Schwinn is nothing more than any other bike Pacific makes. Just a differnt name plate. If someone is trying to be nostalgic about it only Waterford is made by Schwinn. Like Masi is made by Haro not Masi. Like Schwinn the name was sold to the highest bidder without using any hard parts or people from the origional company. By the way a real Masi made by the people that used to make Masiis still manufactured, but because the name was sold they are called Milano. Is there a real Schwill made by the people that made the origional Schwinns or even with Schwinn equipment? I think not. So to the question, the "good name of Schwinn" Sold out and is now the good name of Doral/Pacific.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  14. #39
    Starting over CraigB's Avatar
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    I think whether or not you believe the Schwinn name stood for quality depends on how you define the word "quality." Yes, they were durable, and mostly reliable. But unless you invested in a Paramount, Schwinn bikes were also heavy and sluggish, and made with many inexpensive steel components that were prone to rust. If you were interested in performance, the sub-Paramount Schwinns were not what you thought of as "quality" bikes.
    Craig in Indy

  15. #40
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Actually the Paramount today does NOT represent Schwinn's top of the line road bikes, a different model named the Fastback is Schwinn's top of the line now. Paramount is the top of the line Schwinn that Walmart sells; but there's over a $1,000 difference between the two!

    I have a 85 Schwinn LeTour Luxe made with Tenax (Columbus SL or SP that Columbus rejected due to cosmetic blemishes, but once painted the blemishes were concealed, but Columbus sold those to Schwinn renamed Tenax) double butted lugged steel frame and it's a great riding bike.

    I don't think Schwinn will ever get back into the high end market, they've pretty much destroyed their image for that attempt. They would have to make a really nice road bike (with several excellent downgrade models from the top one), sponsor a few top level racing teams and market like crazy to get that recognition back. I don't think they have that desire. But I though back in the day Schwinn had too many crappy bikes like the Collegiate, Suburban, Varisty, Sprint, Continental, Traveler, Sportabout, Caliente, some of the LeTour's. They should have back then eliminated all but the Varisty for the low end market, and kept the Traveler and the LeTour for the next step up. The Collegiate and the Suburban were the lowest costing bikes but they were just as junky and heavy as the Varisty, so not sure what niche those were trying to fulfill that the Varisty couldn't. And then the Sprint and the Continental were basically another piece of crap but yet cost more the Varisty. I thought one piece of crap of a bike was enough for them back then, not alone 8! I think all of those junky bikes pretty much sealed the fate of Schwinn. They needed to concentrate on 2 or 3 low end bikes, 4 or 5 mid end, and 2 or 3 high end bikes. This would have removed all the confusion that Schwinn only made crappy bikes. That's my opinion anyway, very worthless one at that.

  16. #41
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Merkel View Post
    Harley-Davidson has a brand name that is gold. Schwinn could have been the bicycling equivalent, but fooked it up royally. No the Schwinn brand name is trash.
    Well, Schwinn should look at what HD had done. In the late '70s when AMF owned Harley Davidson, they were the laughing-stock of motorcycles. The bikes were slow, unreliable and poor-handling compared to what was coming off the boat from Japan.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

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  17. #42
    Senior Member Flying Merkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    Well, Schwinn should look at what HD had done. In the late '70s when AMF owned Harley Davidson, they were the laughing-stock of motorcycles. The bikes were slow, unreliable and poor-handling compared to what was coming off the boat from Japan.
    Harley came out with motorcycles that were true to their history. The Evolution HDs were also a huge step up in quality and reliability from the AMF days. Harley would be long gone if they had started buying cheap motorcycles from China with Harley stickers applied. They pulled off probably one of the greatest corporate comebacks ever. According to Sheldon's website, the electroforge process had a lot of untapped potential that new steel alloys could have exploited. Too late.

  18. #43
    Yabba-Dabba-Doo! AlmostTrick's Avatar
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    My Cub Scout pack got to visit Schwinn's Chicago factory back in the 60's. I remember the cool electro-static frame painting system, and the guy running painted fenders through the pinstriping machine by hand to give them the final touch. Yes, all of us kids wanted a Stingray. Schwinn didn’t just ride out the Stingray fad, they pioneered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mawtangent View Post
    My first bike was a single speed with a banana seat and 20 inch wheels/tires from Western Auto (I think it had "Western Flyer" written on the chain guard) and it seemed like a good bike, I think I rode it for like 8 years until I out- grew it. (could it had been a rebranded Schwinn? Did they do that kind of thing?I think it cost around $60).
    No. Yours was an inferior copy that the Real Kids were sure to sneer at! Original Stingrays command top dollar today and have a cult like following. Here's one I restored:



    Quote Originally Posted by JanMM View Post
    Sting-Rays? Kids toys that didn't exist when I was a kid.
    I feel sorry for you.

    Yesterday's Schwinn's were solid bikes that were able to withstand plenty of use (even abuse) and keep right on rolling. I pick up many 30 and 40 year old units that often need nothing more than re-greasing, re-cabling and cleaning. They still roll as good as new.

    The Schwinn's of today are comparable to any other brand at the same price point... certainly nothing to sneer at.
    Last edited by AlmostTrick; 10-20-11 at 02:31 PM.
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  19. #44
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    Yabba Dabba Doo!

    That's a gorgeous job you've done there, AlmostTrick!

    - Slim

  20. #45
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Any effort made at reviving Schwinn's mystique will only exploited by its owner-du-jour, who is only looking to squeeze what little value they can out of the logo while selling Chinese dreck. Same thing with Masi.
    But viva the Information Age, you can still find some of the examples of what Schwinn was producing back before & during their zenith. Check Ebay.
    I shopped for four years before I found an '86 Schwinn Peloton (my first real race bike) frame in my size, and then bam-another one popped up. So now I have two of those beauties; a 25-inch (pictured), and a 24-inch (currently undergoing build). These are the good-old days IMO.




  21. #46
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    [QUOTE=calamarichris;13392433]Any effort made at reviving Schwinn's mystique will only exploited by its owner-du-jour, who is only looking to squeeze what little value they can out of the logo while selling Chinese dreck. Same thing with Masi.
    But viva the Information Age, you can still find some of the examples of what Schwinn was producing back before & during their zenith. Check Ebay.
    I shopped for four years before I found an '86 Schwinn Peloton (my first real race bike) frame in my size, and then bam-another one popped up. So now I have two of those beauties; a 25-inch (pictured), and a 24-inch (currently undergoing build). These are the good-old days IMO.

    Hey there Calamarichris!

    I'm sitting here just loving it!!.......What a beautiful bike! ...OMG!!!

    Most Respectfully,

    - Slim

  22. #47
    Senior Member ka0use's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Slim I suggest that you look into how Schwinn buckled to the pressure by WalMart. And why there are currently two different divisions of Schwinn.
    i was looking at schwinn's website and they have 2 lines, signature available only from schwinn dealers, and the mass market line.

  23. #48
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind compliment Slim.
    The late 80's were a great time to be an admirer of Schwinn road bikes and terrible music.
    Seriously, give Ebay a look once in while. There are Paramounts, Pelotons, Tempos, and some real beauts that come up now and then.


    And another advantage is, it's not like buying a modern, Taiwan-built carbon fiber frame on Ebay. These steel beasties are the bicycle version of a Sherman tank!
    Last edited by calamarichris; 10-20-11 at 05:33 PM.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    Thanks for the kind compliment Slim.
    The late 80's were a great time to be an admirer of Schwinn road bikes and terrible music.
    Seriously, give Ebay a look once in while. There are Paramounts, Pelotons, Tempos, and some real beauts that come up now and then.

    And another advantage is, it's not like buying a modern, Taiwan-built carbon fiber frame on Ebay. These steel beasties are the bicycle version of a Sherman tank!
    Man! if you never hold another dollar, you're rich in my eyes!

    You own two really beautiful bikes!.....I'm in awe....


    - Slim

  25. #50
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I am sure that Real Cyclists™ sneer at the the great unwashed who don't "know best" and appreciate "quality" as the guys at the LBS. It is this attitude that makes them the arbiter of the Real Cyclist™ Creed
    This shtick was tiresome the first 100 times you posted it... are you unable to process a discussion about differences in quality without slipping in to the "real cyclist" and great "unwashed" diatribe ?

    Anyways...

    I think Slim forget to include the filet brazed Schwinns that were produced for over 40 years like the Superior, New World, Super Sport, and Sport Tourer which were all brass brazed 4130 chromoly frames.

    They are often confused with the Varsity and Continental as electroforged frames resemble filet brazed frames.

    Some of the workmanship on the frames is a little sloppy (but functional enough) and they were fitted with heavier parts like a one piece crank and Astabula bottom bracket but unlike the low end bikes of today that are fitted with the same type of bb assembly, these were very well made and designed to survive the apocalypse.

    In the early 70's a Super Sport listed for $137.00 and the Sports Tourer listed for $196.00 and for those folks who know about these, they are a much sought after bicycle due to the solid frame construction and vintage appeal.

    For as nice a these were they could compete with cheaper and lighter bicycles coming out of Japan that were fitted with nicer parts... while a Schwinn would have run a Huret the Japanese bicycles used Suntour and Shimano which offered superior shifting. And when Schwinn tarted using Shimano derailleurs they seems to like the Eagle which is solid but also a bit of a boat anchor.

    Schwinn also sold a small number of very nice mountain bikes / atb's in the mid eighties that were Japanese built... believe these were made by Kuwahara while Japanese made Schwinn road bikes were made by Panasonic.

    Like others, I do not believe that Schwinn will ever regain a reputation for providing a better quality bicycle as for decades Schwinn has been equated with lower end bicycles.

    The story of Schwinn is also the story of the decline of the American manufacturing sector where the things we used were once built on this continent by our citizens and now the things we use are built overseas and we are merely consumers... in most cases.

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