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Old 10-22-11, 01:26 PM   #51
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For all this, it does sound like a too-long chain to me, too. It amazes me sometimes what folks in the biz don't know. That shop should have checked that first thing!

Could also be frame flex. . . or a misaligned frame. See those every now and again, too.

Somebody who KNOWS BIKES needs to look at this problem child, regardless of whether or not it's 'fixable'. WHEN the problem is found, whatever it may be, THEN, you'll know what's next. It's ridiculous for a recurring issue to last this long and still no resolution.

OP needs a refund, AND A new LBS. Specialized should have gotten off their asses a looonng time ago, just for customer satisfaction.
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Old 10-22-11, 05:28 PM   #52
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Somebody who KNOWS BIKES needs to look at this problem child, regardless of whether or not it's 'fixable'. WHEN the problem is found, whatever it may be, THEN, you'll know what's next. It's ridiculous for a recurring issue to last this long and still no resolution.

OP needs a refund, AND A new LBS. Specialized should have gotten off their asses a looonng time ago, just for customer satisfaction.
^^+1 x 10!

The LBS has decided to let a Customer go, basically, by their not resolving the issue. The 35% or so they made on the bike is long gone, and should consider themselves lucky to have a patient customer like this guy. They should have been able to either fix the bike (if it were a bike issue) or teach the Customer (if an "educational" issue) long ago!

This is ridiculous. If they are taking it back to fix it, they must think it really is a bike issue.

The LBS should refund the purchase price. And then take it up with Specialized. The Customer should never have to go to Specialized - the local shop should resolve the issue, it should never make it to the mfgr.

Of course, I have a very old fashioned idea of Customer Service. And I have been a small business owner, and understand what I am saying about "making it right."
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Old 10-22-11, 06:41 PM   #53
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Once, I took the bike back to the shop. They had it for a day. I picked it up the next day and took it for a ride around the parking lot. The chain did it's wrapping thing, and I remember that part of the chain had twisted 90 degrees; a section of rollers had twisted till they were verticle and it was all jammed up in the derailler. Need I say the drivetrain was clean?
That was after the shop had fully serviced the bike.
Yes, the drive train in the pic is dirty, but this occurance happened during a ride on a dusty trail. There are no stiff links on that chain. It is lubed. There is no rust on that chain. It has always been lubed.
I have to realize that people here can say what they want. Some suggested that the drivetrain has been abused and neglected for 8 months. Others are telling me I don't know how to shift. Whatever.
In a thread like this you take what you need and leave the rest. I thank those who have helped, especially with the contact information.
One thing I am going to do is insist upon talking to the warranty rep when he addresses this issue. I need to have my say, and not leave it to the shop owner to provide all the information to the rep.
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Old 10-22-11, 06:57 PM   #54
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Once, I took the bike back to the shop. They had it for a day. I picked it up the next day and took it for a ride around the parking lot. The chain did it's wrapping thing, and I remember that part of the chain had twisted 90 degrees; a section of rollers had twisted till they were verticle and it was all jammed up in the derailler. Need I say the drivetrain was clean?
That was after the shop had fully serviced the bike.
Yes, the drive train in the pic is dirty, but this occurance happened during a ride on a dusty trail. There are no stiff links on that chain. It is lubed. There is no rust on that chain. It has always been lubed.
I have to realize that people here can say what they want. Some suggested that the drivetrain has been abused and neglected for 8 months. Others are telling me I don't know how to shift. Whatever.
In a thread like this you take what you need and leave the rest. I thank those who have helped, especially with the contact information.
One thing I am going to do is insist upon talking to the warranty rep when he addresses this issue. I need to have my say, and not leave it to the shop owner to provide all the information to the rep.

I'm so sorry about this, Sknhgy!

Write the letter detailing all of these events and date them. The most recent event, is the most telling event of them all! It would appear that not ten minutes or so had elapsed, before the same problem repeated itself.

I wish you much luck and success in your struggle with Specialized. Hopefully, they will be a stand-up kind of bicycle company and uphold its reputation, by allowing you to have your preferred satisfaction!

Most Respectfully,

- Slim
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Old 10-22-11, 07:01 PM   #55
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You said they replaced the crankset. Was that including the chainrings? Including the small one? If worn it can cause chain suck. The small one wears faster than the other two. The load is shared over a smaller area (less teeth) compred to the other two.
Did anyone at the shop mention this possibility, when the chain suck was mentioned? If no one mentioned it already, try a brand new small ring. ?
Just checking to make sure I understand what you said. Maybe it was covered already. Someone at the shop should understand this.
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Old 10-23-11, 03:48 AM   #56
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Once, I took the bike back to the shop. They had it for a day. I picked it up the next day and took it for a ride around the parking lot. The chain did it's wrapping thing, and I remember that part of the chain had twisted 90 degrees; a section of rollers had twisted till they were verticle and it was all jammed up in the derailler. Need I say the drivetrain was clean?
That was after the shop had fully serviced the bike.
Yes, the drive train in the pic is dirty, but this occurance happened during a ride on a dusty trail. There are no stiff links on that chain. It is lubed. There is no rust on that chain. It has always been lubed.
I have to realize that people here can say what they want. Some suggested that the drivetrain has been abused and neglected for 8 months. Others are telling me I don't know how to shift. Whatever.
I'm more and more certain that this is simply due to too long a chain. It seems unlikely that the front derailleur could be so out of alignment and the shop not spot it.

I've seen bikes come out of bike shops with far too long a chain (more than once). When challenged about it, the shop mechanic said that's how long the chains are - they didn't seem to understand that the chain has to be shortened to match the chainring and sprocket sizes.
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Old 10-23-11, 06:23 AM   #57
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I would tend to agree with the chain length explanation...definitely check that. I'd also agree that some shops won't reliably check/adjust the front derailler...they might get limit screws, but they'll forget to check height, alignment, toe adjustment. Check those things.

As for the drive train - doesn't look too dirty to me. The OP had been out for a ride,so it looks pretty normal. My MTB gets WAY more gunked up than that on rides, and I don't have problems like he is having. Beanz - you ride in dry, pretty mild dirt trails. If you rode the singletrack I ride here in the east, your drivetrain would look more than a little dusty.
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Old 10-23-11, 06:39 AM   #58
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. Beanz - you ride in dry, pretty mild dirt trails. If you rode the singletrack I ride here in the east, your drivetrain would look more than a little dusty.
No it wouldn't. The reason I posted the pic of my mtb ride, we did a ride with 22 (?) water crossings. The drivetrain got gunked up and my chain sucked up. My buddy carries a spray so that we can clean off the drive train. Worked fine once we were done with the water crossings. As soon as we were done with the ride, I cleaned the bike and the drivetrain was back to clean well operating condition.

Take a look at youtube, there are tons of bike washing videos. I'm sure they are put there for a reason.

But either way, dusty or gunk, I clean my bike, maintain it whether the chain was too long, derailleur was misaligned, chain ring was bent and don't have and to blame the shop or demand a refund. I guess it pays to be an armchair mechanic as all my bikes (currently 7, 10 at most) all run great. 10 bucks say that if the OP bike was mine, it too would be running great.

But so what, did the OP get his money back?
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Old 10-23-11, 08:46 AM   #59
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No it wouldn't. The reason I posted the pic of my mtb ride, we did a ride with 22 (?) water crossings.
Ok - it's all different then. Water crossings in clean water - no big deal. Try riding in muck as thick as warm fudge for a few hundred yards at at time, or down a trail the doubles as a stream. My drivetrain has been caked with muck and still didn't get chain suck to cause the problem like the OP is having.
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Old 10-23-11, 10:09 AM   #60
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I've been thinking that I remember a mention of a Specialized with a bad chainline, way back in a thread I started this spring:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12198611

He talks about a Hardrock, not a Rockhopper like the OP's, and I didn't get chainsuck on it, either. But it still could be a legitimate complaint.
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Old 10-23-11, 02:48 PM   #61
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Ok - it's all different then. Water crossings in clean water - no big deal. Try riding in muck as thick as warm fudge for a few hundred yards at at time, or down a trail the doubles as a stream. My drivetrain has been caked with muck and still didn't get chain suck to cause the problem like the OP is having.
Another my mud is thicker than mud story eh? Well, climbing up a mountain 10 miles in the rain, some 15-20% grades, somewhat single track, mud, water crossings, using a Trek 8000 26'er with XT, my buddy using a $5000 carbon fiber Ibis 29'er with XTR components and we both get chain suck. He carries "Brake free" (?) for this reason, so that he can clean off his chain during rides.

You must be riding a pretty fine bike across that fudge to avoid any kind of chain suck problems.

I just remembered something, anyone that knows bikes can back me on this.

If you've ever watched a pro cross race, he pros have the finest bikes available. Now if there is no chainsuck problem in mud, then explain why they go through a pit stop type area where they switch bikes?

Could it be so that someone can wash off their drive systems and tires to n order to prepare for the next few laps? If you have no problem with chainsuck and fudge mud, you ought to put your anti chainsuck super lube on the market, I'm sure the pros would benefit and appreciate it.

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Old 10-23-11, 10:41 PM   #62
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Chain-Suck :the COMPLETE story. http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/LINK-PAGE.htm
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Old 10-24-11, 03:54 AM   #63
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Beanz - just saying my experience differs from yours, and the OP's drivetrain didn't seem all that dirty to me. MTB's are expected to get dirty, and should be designed to operate properly in those conditions. If all MTB's were as sensitive to mud/dirt as you seem to experience, I'd see bikes having these problems on every ride - and yet I don't. I don't really care what the pros do or don't do.
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Old 10-24-11, 12:27 PM   #64
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Chain-Suck :the COMPLETE story. http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/LINK-PAGE.htm
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Old 10-24-11, 12:53 PM   #65
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so you said the shop wanted to work on it again. did that fix it? have different wrenches looked at it? is there a different speciallized shop in the area?
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Old 10-25-11, 07:35 PM   #66
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so you said the shop wanted to work on it again. did that fix it? have different wrenches looked at it? is there a different speciallized shop in the area?
Inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 10-25-11, 08:39 PM   #67
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I took it to the shop and left it there last Friday, the 21st. The shop owner was a bit snooty about it. I didn't say alot, but I stayed calm and to-the-point and I think my demeanor settled him down somewhat. He said that now that he had the bike he could set up an appointment with the area warranty rep, but that could take a week or so. I want to talk to that rep myself.
I've had just too many problems with this bike and they've occured in the mildest of biking conditions, and I've never abused this bike or even shifted it hard. There's no way a mountain bike should fail under the conditions I've used this one.

Thanks for asking.
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Old 10-25-11, 08:56 PM   #68
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Oh well single speed mountain bikes will be simpler..
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Old 10-25-11, 09:47 PM   #69
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I took it to the shop and left it there last Friday, the 21st. The shop owner was a bit snooty about it. I didn't say alot, but I stayed calm and to-the-point and I think my demeanor settled him down somewhat. He said that now that he had the bike he could set up an appointment with the area warranty rep, but that could take a week or so. I want to talk to that rep myself.
I've had just too many problems with this bike and they've occured in the mildest of biking conditions, and I've never abused this bike or even shifted it hard. There's no way a mountain bike should fail under the conditions I've used this one.

Thanks for asking.
Hey there Sknhgy,

Just make sure that you're there in the physical when the rep speaks with this guy. It should be a joint meeting, together!

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Old 10-26-11, 08:04 AM   #70
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Hey there Sknhgy,

Just make sure that you're there in the physical when the rep speaks with this guy. It should be a joint meeting, together!

- Slim
Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. Most of these reps have a strict policy of only dealing with the dealership, not the customer directly.
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Old 10-26-11, 11:22 AM   #71
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Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. Most of these reps have a strict policy of only dealing with the dealership, not the customer directly.
That's the feeling I get. The shop won't talk about it. They just said they are making an appointment with him/her.
I did send a letter to the CEO.
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Old 10-26-11, 12:25 PM   #72
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That's the feeling I get. The shop won't talk about it. They just said they are making an appointment with him/her.
I did send a letter to the CEO.
Cool! That's a good thing!...Hopefully, it will make a difference.

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Old 10-27-11, 10:55 AM   #73
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If you tell me that you know how to shift, but you still have absolutelty no idea what is wrong with your drive train then I'm going to wonder if you really know as much as you think you do. Seriously, start thinking about how and when this problem is occuring. Put it on a stand or just pick the wheel up and pedal/shift. Ride around and look down at the drive train to see what is happening. Do something. Even if the issue is due to excess flex or some kind of frame misalignment this isn't really rocket science and any problem ought to be discernable. In fact I'd bet that many of the people on here could tell you what the problem is in five minutes or less.

And about the armchair mechanics stuff. Many times I've found that with bikes (and with other things like cars for instance) you can take something to a "professional" only to find out that they know far less than some "amatuer." Perhaps it is becuase the pro is just some guy doing a job he doesn't care about and the the amatuer is passionate about the matters in question. Enthusiasts understand the things they do, many times professionals just follow procedure and standard practice.

Much like your situation, there are more and more things that I find I have to do myself because I know enough to know what the other guy doesn't know. In your case I'd just assume that the shop isn't going to figure it out. For what ever the reason they are unable to say, "This is the problem, period." So I say figure it out and fix it yourself. I'm telling you, whatever it is it can't be that darn complicated.

I've course I still wouldn't rule out user error.
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Old 10-27-11, 09:24 PM   #74
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I am bummed. Talked to the rep today. He said he found a badly bent tooth on the middle chainring. I told him that is to be expected when a chain gets sucked between the middle ring and the chainstay. He said I need to fix it. He said he took the bike out of the shop and tried to pedal it and the chain sucked.
I swear to God I have never abused this bike, or banged it, or shifted under load. I have been riding bikes continually for 50 years. I take care of my stuff.

^^^^ I agree with you Brian. This guy didn't sound like he knew much about bikes. He just gave me the same pat replys that I've got from their reps over the phone. I tried talking mechainical issues with him and he gave me what sounded like pre-recorded answers.
As several of you have suggested I think my next move will be to retreive the bike and take it to another shop. It's just that part of my brain is telling me that this is unbelieveable that the shop and the mfger won't do something about this bike. I was thinking back today how many times this bike has left me stranded. I counted 3. And I can't count how many times the chain has sucked or fallen off the rings. It even twisted once on a mild ride in the shop parking lot.
I am baffled. I'll be riding this bike, cruising along, make a simple shift and the chain will wrap around the small chainring. The shop owner keeps implying that I'm shifting both front and rear shifters at the same time.
And I'm tired of being such a wet rag. Thanks to all who tried to help. I don't have the time to do the small claims court thing. I looked that up and it would involve taking time off work, etc.
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Old 10-27-11, 11:06 PM   #75
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I am bummed. Talked to the rep today. He said he found a badly bent tooth on the middle chainring. I told him that is to be expected when a chain gets sucked between the middle ring and the chainstay. He said I need to fix it. He said he took the bike out of the shop and tried to pedal it and the chain sucked.
I swear to God I have never abused this bike, or banged it, or shifted under load. I have been riding bikes continually for 50 years. I take care of my stuff.

^^^^ I agree with you Brian. This guy didn't sound like he knew much about bikes. He just gave me the same pat replys that I've got from their reps over the phone. I tried talking mechainical issues with him and he gave me what sounded like pre-recorded answers.
As several of you have suggested I think my next move will be to retreive the bike and take it to another shop. It's just that part of my brain is telling me that this is unbelieveable that the shop and the mfger won't do something about this bike. I was thinking back today how many times this bike has left me stranded. I counted 3. And I can't count how many times the chain has sucked or fallen off the rings. It even twisted once on a mild ride in the shop parking lot.
I am baffled. I'll be riding this bike, cruising along, make a simple shift and the chain will wrap around the small chainring. The shop owner keeps implying that I'm shifting both front and rear shifters at the same time.
And I'm tired of being such a wet rag. Thanks to all who tried to help. I don't have the time to do the small claims court thing. I looked that up and it would involve taking time off work, etc.
Hey there Sknhgy!

Take it to another shop. After they "fix" it. Ride the dickens out of it, the following weekend. If or "when" the same thing happens again. Just take it back to the original Specialized dealership and leave it. Report it to the BBB. Try to let them (the BBB) handle it, first. Immediately write the CEO another letter, further explaining your dilemma. At the very least, pay a lawyer to write a threatening letter, if Specialized doesn't give you satisfaction. Tell them that now, instead of a new frame, you want a refund!

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