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Old 01-16-12, 10:55 AM   #1
jensonj
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Close to buying a Cannondale Synapse Carbon

Hello Folks, my second post in this wonderful forum. It's truly exciting to be here!

a brief background, im 33 year old, 5 ft. 10".. on a shoe string budget and the advise of bike shop owner, i went for a Trek Marlin, from their gary fisher series. especially coz the roads here arent as good as the ones you are blessed with in US or Europe.. however, my first love is a road bike, purely from the speed perspective.

recently came across a sale where the seller (in india) is looking to sell his Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6 (pic of actual product - http://postimage.org/image/2phxo41fo/ )

the seller is riding a 2011 Cannondale CAAD 10-3 Black and looking to upgrade to a all ultegra component bike.

he is selling the carbon 6 for roughly $860, shipping included.. he has rode the bike for almost 400 miles. date of purchase - 8th June 2010. he has it insured till end of may..

Now, my query has multiple dimensions..

1. i'm not a pro by any standard. i'm already enjoying the little bits that Trek Marlin is offering already. i'm looking for a bike which is exciting to ride.
2. Does the pic give away any specific detail of the bike which anyone here would like to share.
3. does the price sound justified..the user claims to have paid close to $1700 (importing bikes to India is expensive affair)
4. how is this bike for rough handling. any downsides to owning a full carbon body...?

I truly appreciate everyone's time!! Thanks for looking..and if you are posting, Thanks for sparing your valuable time!
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Old 01-16-12, 12:07 PM   #2
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Buying a used carbon fiber bicycle is generally not recommended, sir.

Regardless as to what the original owner paid for the bike, it could have been previously damaged. Maybe he's trying to recoup his losses. Perhaps, it was involved in a high impact collision and the integrity of the carbon fiber is now suspect. Perhaps he's lost confidence in the bike due to some previous collision or physical mishap.

OTOH, perhaps it's a once in a lifetime phenomenal deal of the century. At any rate, you would be gambling...

Good Luck!

- Slim

PS.

In order to confirm actual carbon fiber frame damage, you need state-of-the-art scientific equipment to be used by an expert....

* Always buy carbon fiber bicycles when they're new!

Last edited by SlimRider; 01-16-12 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 12:10 PM   #3
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Awesome looking bike...I see why you would want it.
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Old 01-16-12, 12:22 PM   #4
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Nice looking bike.

A word of warning: don't leave a full carbon bike out in direct sunlight for too long. They may catch fire if you do that.








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Old 01-16-12, 12:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Buying a used carbon fiber bicycle is generally not recommended, sir.

Regardless as to what the original owner paid for the bike, it could have been previously damaged. Maybe he's trying to recoup his losses. Perhaps, it was involved in a high impact collision and the integrity of the carbon fiber is now suspect. Perhaps he's lost confidence in the bike due to some previous collision or physical mishap.

OTOH, perhaps it's a once in a lifetime phenomenal deal of the century. At any rate, you would be gambling...

Good Luck!

- Slim

PS.

In order to confirm actual carbon fiber frame damage, you need state-of-the-art scientific equipment to be used by an expert....

* Always buy carbon fiber bicycles when they're new!

thank you very much for the insight, makes sense! ill use ur line of thought in future discussion and see how the gentleman reacts.

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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Awesome looking bike...I see why you would want it.
u cud say that again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
Nice looking bike.

A word of warning: don't leave a full carbon bike out in direct sunlight for too long. They may catch fire if you do that.


j/k
ghostrider with carbon 6 ?

Last edited by jensonj; 01-16-12 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 03:26 PM   #6
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Jensonj says:

[/QUOTE**thank you very much for the insight, makes sense! ill use ur line of thought in future discussion and see how the gentleman reacts. [/QUOTE]

That line of reasoning would be better kept close to the vest. Perhaps it would be wiser, not to entertain your unsuspecting mind with such statistical probabilities. It may not be prepared for the genuine world of stark reality.

This gentleman should only be spoken to, in passing. No mention of interest in any bicycle should be a topic of discussion.

- Slim
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Old 01-16-12, 04:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Jensonj says:

[/QUOTE**thank you very much for the insight, makes sense! ill use ur line of thought in future discussion and see how the gentleman reacts.
That line of reasoning would be better kept close to the vest. Perhaps it would be wiser, not to entertain your unsuspecting mind with such statistical probabilities. It may not be prepared for the genuine world of stark reality.

This gentleman should only be spoken to, in passing. No mention of interest in any bicycle should be a topic of discussion.

- Slim [/QUOTE]


Thanks a lot of slowing me down on this one! ill do the needful.. appreciate your thoughts!

Last edited by jensonj; 01-16-12 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 04:32 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jensonj View Post
thank you very much for the insight, makes sense! ill use ur line of thought in future discussion and see how the gentleman reacts.
SlimRider's opinions are somewhat unusual and not necessarily well-informed.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious but that caution should be applied regardless of the material the bike is made from.

As with any bicycle, one should not trust the advice you are being given without assessing the quality of the source of that advice.

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-12 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 04:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
SlimRider's opinions are somewhat unusual and not necessarily well-informed.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious but that caution should be applied regardless of the material the bike is made from.

As with any bicycle, one should not trust the advice you are being given without assessing the quality of the source of that advice.

sure, i intend to bring it up in my discussion with him. hoping for the best. thanks very much for sharing your thoughts! this really help me asking all the right questions to the seller..

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Old 01-16-12, 04:52 PM   #10
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sure, i intend to bring it up in my discussion with him. hoping for the best. thanks very much for sharing your thoughts! this really help me asking all the right questions to the seller..
No, I'm talking about the advice you are getting from SlimRider (or anybody else here).

That is, don't assume that what people here (on this forum) make any sense. You have to hang around for a while to get a sense of who gives reliable/useful/sensible advice and who does not.

Feel free to look at this thread (for example) to get some idea of the quality of comments.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...aby-this-frame

===============

The Cannondale Synapse you are looking at is certainly a nice bike (it's well regarded).

Note that, whatever road bike you end up getting, you might want to put wider tires on it. Wider tires let you use lower pressure for the same load (the total weight of the bike and rider and any thing else being carried). Lower pressure tends to be more comfortable on rougher roads.

In the US, 23 mm tires are typical but many people would be better served by using 25 mm or 28 mm (if the frame can take them) especially for crappy roads.

This is the US specs for the 2012 bike. I have no idea what is on the 2010 bike and whether the version in India would be the same as the one in the US.


http://www.cannondale.com/2012-synap...n-6-apex-20262

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-12 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 04:54 PM   #11
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Caad 10 4 Rival I think would serve you much better
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Old 01-16-12, 04:58 PM   #12
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Caad 10 4 Rival I think would serve you much better
Useless advice. You really need to indicate why. And he's looking at a used 2010 bike in India.

While that's a nice bike too, you'd have to indicate why it would be worth spending 2 times as much.

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-caad10-4-rival-20059

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-12 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 08:03 PM   #13
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1. People like the Synapse, and I probably would still be riding one if I had gotten a Synapse instead of a one-size-off CAAD8.
2. No, can't tell much from the pic. It looks store-spec, all-original including the front & rear reflectors. It's got 9-speed Tiagra, which comes on carbon bikes from shops in the US still twice the price (US$) that the seller is asking. So,...
3. Yeah, that price sounds pretty good to me. I sold my CAAD8 with the same wheels and 105 for $700, I think, and that's half the price that it was new, too.
4. If you're going to lock it up with a chain to a fence, you might get it nicked up pretty bad. The same could happen with thin-walled aluminum, though, but carbon can be repaired, too, if necessary.

There's been an older OCLV carbon Trek that looks like a commuter bike regularly chained to a rack on the street near my workplace. I figure it's fine.

PS - pay no mind to SlimRider. We appreciate his enthusiasm, but not the misinformation.
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Old 01-16-12, 09:18 PM   #14
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njkayaker;13728457]
Quote:
No, I'm talking about the advice you are getting fromSlimRider (or anybody else
here).
So you're now in a position to judge me!...How ridiculous!

Quote:

That is, don't assume that what people here (on this forum) make any
sense.You have to hang around for a while to get a sense of who gives
reliable/useful/sensible advice and who does not.
Well let's just see what sense you make Mr. Perfection...

Quote:
Feel free to look at this thread (for example) to get some idea of the
quality of comments.http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...aby-this-frame
Yes! Within this thread, I mention the imperfections of carbon fiber. Everything that I mentioned is well-documented. It is true that carbon fiber has an impact-resistance problem. It is also true that carbon fiber frames as susceptible to structural damage after being scratched. That why we are warned about parking them close to other bikes and up against buildings, etc. I also, mentioned the fact that carbon fiber bicycles are sensitive to UV radiation and their polyurethane clearcoat coverings need multiple applications, as they are only effective within specific time periods, depending upon degree of UV radiation exposure. These facts are all well documented. So what's your highly esteemed advice there! Did I say something in error? ...Would you even know for certain, if I were in error? ...Well, I know for certain,that I am NOT in error and I left links to corrobrate my claims.

===============

Quote:
The Cannondale Synapse you are looking at is certainly a nice bike (it's well
regarded).Note that, whatever road bike you end up getting, you might
want to put wider tires on it. Wider tires let you use lower pressure for the
same load (the total weight of the bike and rider and any thing else being
carried). Lower pressure tends to be more comfortable on rougher roads.
Agreed.

Quote:
In the US, 23 mm tires are typical but many people would be better
by using 25 mm or 28 mm (if the frame can take them) especially
for crappy roads.
Quote:
This is the US specs for the 2012 bike. I have no
idea what is on the 2010 bike and whether the version in India would be
the same

as the one in the US.

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-synap...n-6-apex-20262
So you're advising this guy to place 25 or 28mm tires on his bike to traverse "crappy" roads. This is not good advice. Also, 23mm tires are NOT typical for "crappy roads"! In general, one should always use the widest tire they can possibly mount on their bike for exclusively, "crappy" roads.

- Slim

Last edited by SlimRider; 01-17-12 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 01-16-12, 09:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker;13728376[QUOTE
]SlimRider's opinions are somewhat unusual and not necessarily
well-informed.
So, on one hand, you're telling this guy that my advice is "unusual and not necessarily well-informed", then suddenly you flip and tell him to be cautious.

Quote:
That doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious but that caution should be applied
regardless of the material the bike is made from.
You're just repeating what I've already stated. The only difference is that I gave him reasons to be cautious and you just gave him a general warning. I'd say, a warning with reason trumps a mere warning without good reasoning.

Quote:
As with any bicycle, one should not trust the advice you are being given without
assessing the quality of the source of that advice.
People buy used steel and aluminum framed bikes, everyday. At least they can inspect the welds and render decent judgement as to whether the bike is worth the risk of purchase or not. You simply can't do that with carbon fiber bikes. It is a well-known fact that carbon fiber damage is quite allusive and insidious. In order to properly assess CF damage, you need state-of-the-art equipment, to be used by an expert, to determine possible damage. In some cases, that's still not enough! Again, this info is all well documented as most people within this forum can readily attest.

- Slim
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Old 01-16-12, 09:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Who do you think you are attempting to give the final word about others opinions?

You seriously need to back off! You have no right to render someone's opinion as useless. Suppose someone said that your opinion is useless! Suppose someone called you an A$$HAT, because of it!

I don't think you'd like that very much, would you?...So lighten up and respect other people's opinions, whether you like them or not!


- Slim
First: there are "opinions", and then there is "wrong".

People can debate opinions all they want, but it's pointless, really. And, people can't debate facts, because, well, facts are facts. If you're wrong, then you're wrong, simple as that.

Secondly: You really need to either think before you post or stop using edits to mask the insults you've already hurled. Other BF members have been banned already for such behavior, and I don't know if you want to be the next one.

Here's your original post, as it appeared in my email inbox:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimRider
---Quote (Originally by njkayaker)---
Useless advice. You really need to indicate why. And he's looking at a used 2010 bike in India.

While that's a nice bike too, you'd have to indicate why it would be worth spending 2 times as much.

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-caad10-4-rival-20059
---End Quote---

Who do you think you are attempting to give the final word about others opinions?

You seriously need to back off! You have no right to render someone's opinion as useless. Your opinion is useless! A$$HAT!

- Slim
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Old 01-16-12, 09:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Who do you think you are attempting to give the final word about others opinions?

You seriously need to back off! You have no right to render someone's opinion as useless. Suppose someone said that your opinion is useless! Suppose someone called you an A$$HAT, because of it!

I don't think you'd like that very much, would you?...So lighten up and respect other people's opinions, whether you like them or not!


- Slim
The truth hurts.
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Old 01-16-12, 10:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
First: there are "opinions", and then there is "wrong".

People can debate opinions all they want, but it's pointless, really. And, people can't debate facts, because, well, facts are facts. If you're wrong, then you're wrong, simple as that.

Secondly: You really need to either think before you post or stop using edits to mask the insults you've already hurled. Other BF members have been banned already for such behavior, and I don't know if you want to be the next one.

Here's your original post, as it appeared in my email inbox:
I guess you're right..He just pissed me off!
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Old 01-16-12, 10:05 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=BarracksSi;13729270]1. People like the Synapse, and I probably would still be riding one if I had gotten a Synapse instead of a one-size-off CAAD8.
2. No, can't tell much from the pic. It looks store-spec, all-original including the front & rear reflectors. It's got 9-speed Tiagra, which comes on carbon bikes from shops in the US still twice the price (US$) that the seller is asking. So,...
3. Yeah, that price sounds pretty good to me. I sold my CAAD8 with the same wheels and 105 for $700, I think, and that's half the price that it was new, too.
4. If you're going to lock it up with a chain to a fence, you might get it nicked up pretty bad. The same could happen with thin-walled aluminum, though, but carbon can be repaired, too, if necessary.

There's been an older OCLV carbon Trek that looks like a commuter bike regularly chained to a rack on the street near my workplace. I figure it's fine.

Quote:
PS - pay no mind to SlimRider. We appreciate his enthusiasm, but not the misinformation.
......What misinformation?

I hope nobody is suggesting that the OP purchase a used CF bicycle. That's just so wrong on so many levels...Unless he's familiar with the seller!

OP..Pay no mind to anybody vaguely suggesting that you invest a used carbon fiber bicycle. That would be such an ill-advised investment.

Last edited by SlimRider; 01-16-12 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 01-16-12, 10:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
I guess you're right..He just pissed me off!
njkayaker was right, though. The OP is asking specific questions about a specific bike. It's not just another, "Which bike should I buy?" thread. Recommending a different model of bike that the bike's seller doesn't own and would cost twice as much anyway is, indeed, useless advice.

It's like someone asking in a car forum, "I've found a 2006 Honda for $5000 -- is there something I should look out for with this model?" and getting told, "You should buy a 2012 Passat."
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Old 01-16-12, 10:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
The truth hurts.
At least you're using more words now!

That means that we're improving...

- Slim
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Old 01-16-12, 10:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
......What misinformation?
That CF will explode if you look at it wrong, that bike manufacturers blithely ignore common steps to protect it against UV, that any metal material is magically stronger in every way, that it's impossible to examine CF for cracks or delamination...

I read through the thread that njkayaker linked to, and my goodness -- if it weren't for people quoting your posts before they were deleted, I wouldn't have known how misinformed you were. Carbon fiber has been around for quite a while now, and I've begun wondering how recently you discovered that it's being used for bicycles.
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Old 01-16-12, 10:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
njkayaker was right, though. The OP is asking specific questions about a specific bike. It's not just another, "Which bike should I buy?" thread. Recommending a different model of bike that the bike's seller doesn't own and would cost twice as much anyway is, indeed, useless advice.

It's like someone asking in a car forum, "I've found a 2006 Honda for $5000 -- is there something I should look out for with this model?" and getting told, "You should buy a 2012 Passat."
Well, if you consider the fact that the entire idea about purchasing a used CF bike, is a bad idea, then suggesting another bike for consideration, may not be entirely useless. I mean, if the OP omits the original idea about considering the purchase of a used CF bike, then the arena is open for other suggestions. It's simply a judgement call, that is entirely up to the discretion of the OP as whether he wants to consider it or not. He should be the only one to determine its value.

If the OP says, " Well, I'm still considering buying the used Synapse", then yes, the suggestion of another bike becomes useless, for the moment. Of course, he can still bank that suggested bike as a quality bike and use that data at a later time. In that sense, it's still not totally useless.

OTOH, if the OP completely rejects the idea about purchasing a CF bike, then the new suggestion might prove to be a good one and thus, quite useful. So therefore, it all depends upon the OP's opinion, entirely.

- Slim
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Old 01-16-12, 10:32 PM   #24
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Well, if you consider the fact that the entire idea about purchasing a used CF bike, is a bad idea, ...
... which it isn't.
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Old 01-16-12, 10:34 PM   #25
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"fRames: (frame, fork structure, swing arm): Cannondale
frames (except frames for Freeride, and Dirt Jumping bikes,
see below) are warranted by Cycling Sports Group, Inc., 16
Trowbridge Drive, Bethel, CT 06801 against manufacturing
defects in materials and/or workmanship for the lifetime of
the original owner. "

You will be taking your chances on the frame.
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