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Old 01-27-12, 01:40 PM   #26
Denelle
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Assume shipping is $10. He'd have to take the time/effort to sell the saddle and get $72 to break even.

Since he doesn't think it's worth $62, what makes it seem reasonable to expect him to get anything near that (assuming he's representing the product accurately)?

Returning it, he's out shipping. Trying to sell it, he's out for potentially more (and talking more effort to lose more).
That is if he sells it online. I'd bet some poor schmuck would pick it up off of Craigslist for $60 though.
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Old 01-27-12, 01:41 PM   #27
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I don't think the condition as shown in the photo is unreasonable for the price you paid.

The issue is that the photo (according to you) represents the condition as better than actual.

If you have reasonable complaints, send it back (if you can) and eat the cost of shipping.
The bottom line is, reasonable or not, the buyer is dissatisfied with the condition of the saddle. Reading the seller's reply, I think that it's unlikely that returning the saddle for a refund is going to happen. That's the reality and it's the risk one assumes with a private internet sale.
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Old 01-27-12, 01:55 PM   #28
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You aren't making any sense.

It likely much harder to "recondition" than you imagine. He'd likely be better off returning it (if it's possible).
Just because you don't comprehend, doesn't mean that I don't make any sense. I simply made a statement of probability. You used the word "probably", in the statement, "probably not". This statement implies probability. Probability is defined as the number of possible occurences divided by the total number of actual occurences.
Therefore, if you state that event will, "probably not" occur, that implies that there might also be room for the event to occur, as well.

Therefore, the OP still has a favorable chance to take this sour situation and convert it into a favorable one, by following leathercraft instructions, in order to recondition his saddle.

Why is it that you feel that you have some kind of supreme right to either validate someone's opinion as being accurate, legitimate, or worthy?

We all just have opinions. Let others make their opinions known and you make your opinion known. There's no need to point-counterpoint in practically every thread. That's just a little too confrontational, for me...

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Old 01-27-12, 03:06 PM   #29
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recumbenttoad, did you look at the pic before you bid? You can clearly see the age as well as the blue paint.
Well, there is no way you can determine the age from the photo. You can see scuffs, which I was okay with, but you can't see the blue paint on the rear half of the saddle or the dimples in the leather or the rust on the rivets. Its the unbelievable amount of wear the saddle has on it that irritates me. He never stated that there was more than 40 miles on the saddle. The description clearly leads one to believe that there are only 40 miles on it. It has to have several thousand miles on it in the shape it is in.

Hey, I'm not trying to whine because in the big scheme of things it really means nothing, I'm just asking whether or not you folks would feel the saddle was misrepresented or not.

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Old 01-27-12, 03:31 PM   #30
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Hey, I'm not trying to whine because in the big scheme of things it really means nothing, I'm just asking whether or not you folks would feel the saddle was misrepresented or not.
"I put less than 40 miles on it before I took it off."

I'd call that statement that is both technically accurate and misleading at the same time. It would be unexcusable if it had come from a commercial dealer. I'm thinking the rules on a private sale are a little more lenient.
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Old 01-27-12, 03:43 PM   #31
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That is if he sells it online. I'd bet some poor schmuck would pick it up off of Craigslist for $60 though.
Hah! Except he's going to have to deal with scores of creepy dudes showing up at his house wanting it for $5. (Not worth it.)
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Old 01-27-12, 03:46 PM   #32
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The bottom line is, reasonable or not, the buyer is dissatisfied with the condition of the saddle.
It appears that the photo is misleading according to the OP (we have to assume that he is correct).

If the object was not really as described (if the photo was misleading), the OP has a better argument. Merely being "dissatisfied" is his right but it's a weak position to argue from.

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Reading the seller's reply, I think that it's unlikely that returning the saddle for a refund is going to happen. That's the reality and it's the risk one assumes with a private internet sale.
The OP seems to think some recourse is possible. If that's not true, there's not much he can do (as you said).

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"I put less than 40 miles on it before I took it off."

I'd call that statement that is both technically accurate and misleading at the same time. It would be unexcusable if it had come from a commercial dealer. I'm thinking the rules on a private sale are a little more lenient.
The seller is either disingenuous or not very smart. His lame excuses for the deficient description might be true but they aren't relevant. I'm leaning towards him being disingenuous (which would mean that he's not going to be reasonable).

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Old 01-27-12, 03:51 PM   #33
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Why is it that you feel that you have some kind of supreme right to either validate someone's opinion as being accurate, legitimate, or worthy?
Your time really must not be worth much. Rebuilding the saddle is a lot of effort (the problems are not just the surface).

Why is it you think you can make silly comments and not be called on them?

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Let others make their opinions known and you make you opinion known. There's no need to point-counterpoint in practically every thread. That's just a little too confrontational, for me...
??? I did make my opinion known. You could either put more consideration into what you say or you could spend time complaining when people (and it's not just me) comment on it. The former is time better spent (in my opinion).

(Note that posters who ignore the sort of feed back you are getting from the community don't tend to fare well. There's no reason you can't improve the quality of your posts. In my opinion.)

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Old 01-27-12, 03:55 PM   #34
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Hey, I'm not trying to whine because in the big scheme of things it really means nothing, I'm just asking whether or not you folks would feel the saddle was misrepresented or not.
It seems that the description and the photo are not a reasonable representation of the product (keeping in mind that we have to trust your comments about it).

The seller is either being disingenuous or is not very smart. His lame excuses for the deficient description might be true but they aren't relevant: the description has to be reasonably accurate.

I'm leaning towards him being disingenuous (which would mean that he's not going to be reasonable).

The issue is what you can reasonably do about it.
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Old 01-27-12, 04:25 PM   #35
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Hah! Except he's going to have to deal with scores of creepy dudes showing up at his house wanting it for $5. (Not worth it.)
The last Brooks I sold on CL, the buyer wanted to know how much he increased his cool factor. He was buying a woman's version
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Old 01-27-12, 05:02 PM   #36
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I used a Proofide Saturation technique, warming the saddle in the oven,
then upside down put a big dollop of the Stuff in the bottom,
and let it soak up the molten waxes like a sponge.. It will darken and protect.

one is 30 years old, the other 20+.. I'd say just ride it and go on with your life
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Old 01-27-12, 05:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by njkayaker;13776699[QUOTE
]Your time really must not be worth much. Rebuilding the saddle is a lot of effort (the problems are not just the surface). Why is it you think you can make silly comments and not be called on them?
Are you an expert in leather, saddles, or reconditioning anything? ...What makes you more qualified to make such an assessment than anyone else?....Just who or what do you think you are? ...You're no supreme judge with the most respected logic, here!..In fact, logic appears NOT to be your strong suit!

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??? I did make my opinion known. You could either put more consideration into
what you say or you could spend time complaining when people (and it's not just
me) comment on it. The former is time better spent (in my opinion).
No. It's your opinion that tends to be confrontational. As you appear to lurk through these threads, just to either validate or criticize so many peoples opinions, as though your opinion prevails in the confirmation, one way or another. People have a right to express their opinion, without your constant critiques. Just allow people the space to post, comment, or whatever, without your constant need to critique! ...Sometimes, you should just let it go!

I my case, I don't care about what you do. I can take care of myself. It's just that you grate my nerves with your constant predatory stalking and lurking, as if to smell blood. Hey, just give it a rest, already!

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(Note that posters who ignore the sort of feed back you are getting from the
community don't tend to fare well. There's no reason you can't improve the
quality of your posts. In my opinion.)
Sir! Please take your own advice...Please!
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Old 01-27-12, 05:32 PM   #38
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I guess what it all boils down to is this - do I give the guy negative feedback? Like I said, it's a tiny thing in the big scheme of things, but I just hate to have someone think they pulled something over on me.
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Old 01-27-12, 05:34 PM   #39
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For what it's worth I'd be inclined to try raising a dispute on the basis the saddle is "significantly not as described". The seller might be technically accurate in saying he only put 40 miles on it but saying it's "used" doesn't get him off the hook - it just says that he used it. If he put it on his bike, rode half a mile and took it off again it would be "used". "Only 40 miles" suggests the thing is nearly new as opposed to being some old knackered thing that he only used for a short time.

The seller has either misdescribed it or described it using deliberately misleading terms. From what people complain about on here ebay and paypal seem to side with buyers to the point of letting crooked buyers take honest sellers for a ride so you might be in with a good chance.

Maybe you'll be out the shipping back, maybe you won't. Still beats being out the full amount you paid.
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Old 01-27-12, 06:09 PM   #40
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At the very least I would hit him with negative feedback. Others need to know what kind of seller they are dealing with. If I was you I might file a PayPal complaint just for principle. The foundation of Ebay is dependent on honesty and the seller was not upfront.
Negative feedback is absolutely useless for buyers. The reason is that 95% of sellers I've seen will never leave their feedback until the buyer leaves theirs. Hence, for the seller it's a chance to retaliate if you gave them bad feedback. In other words if you leave them negative feedback you get it yourself even though you have paid promptly.
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Old 01-27-12, 06:39 PM   #41
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The last Brooks I sold on CL, the buyer wanted to know how much he increased his cool factor. He was buying a woman's version
Hah!
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Old 01-27-12, 06:41 PM   #42
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Are you an expert in leather, saddles, or reconditioning anything? ...What makes you more qualified to make such an assessment than anyone else?
Are you? No one has any idea if you are or not. It seems really obvious that the OP isn't an expert!

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No. It's your opinion that tends to be confrontational. As you appear to lurk through these threads, just to either validate or criticize so many peoples opinions, as though your opinion prevails in the confirmation, one way or another. People have a right to express their opinion, without your constant critiques. Just allow people the space to post, comment, or whatever, without your constant need to critique! ...Sometimes, you should just let it go!
Your posts generate that confrontation (and it isn't just from me). Either the issue is you OR it's all those other people.

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(Note that posters who ignore the sort of feed back you are getting from the community don't tend to fare well. There's no reason you can't improve the quality of your posts. In my opinion.)
I guess you are going to ignore this. Oh well!

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-27-12 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 01-27-12, 06:44 PM   #43
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Are you? No one has any idea if you are or not.


Your posts generate that confrontation (and it isn't just from me). Either the issue is you OR it's all those other people.


I guess you are going to ignore this.
Just remember what I've stated!

- Slim
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Old 01-27-12, 06:49 PM   #44
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Just remember what I've stated!

- Slim
Meh. You could take the advice and get better. It's too bad you aren't interested.

(Since you haven't presented your credentials as an expert at saddle reconditioning, it appears that you are just blowing smoke.)
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Old 02-03-12, 01:04 PM   #45
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Looks like the OP assumed a lot of facts that weren't in evidence, and failed to do some due diligence before making the purchase.
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Old 02-03-12, 03:22 PM   #46
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Looks like the OP assumed a lot of facts that weren't in evidence, and failed to do some due diligence before making the purchase.
No, I assumed the seller was as honest as I am, but apparently that's an anomaly these days, especially on Ebay. Just where in h*ll do I get the info that this is a heavily used saddle? Description stated that it was ridden for 40 miles. That was total BS and there was no way to know that.

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Old 02-03-12, 03:44 PM   #47
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Looks like the OP assumed a lot of facts that weren't in evidence, and failed to do some due diligence before making the purchase.
This is a weird first post. Lurk for 1.5 years and this is what we get?
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Old 02-03-12, 03:57 PM   #48
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This is a weird first post. Lurk for 1.5 years and this is what we get?
I thought so too. Maybe it's the seller.
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Old 02-04-12, 10:11 AM   #49
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No, I assumed the seller was as honest as I am, but apparently that's an anomaly these days, especially on Ebay. Just where in h*ll do I get the info that this is a heavily used saddle? Description stated that it was ridden for 40 miles. That was total BS and there was no way to know that.
Hey, don't get mad at me. I am not the seller, just a member stating my opinion, as requested in the thread title. After reading the first sentence in your post that I quoted, I guess my original assessment was correct. The picture provided in the auction shows a saddle that has a lot of wear.

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This is a weird first post. Lurk for 1.5 years and this is what we get?
In the future, I shall make more of an effort to ensure that my posts meet your standards.
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Old 02-04-12, 10:29 AM   #50
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The thing is, there is a huge difference between shop wear and actual wear. I don't mind the scuffs from shop wear. It doesn't matter, anyway. I'll keep the saddle because it's too much trouble to mess with getting a refund, and I'll wait until I have a bad day and give the seller negative feedback. Maybe he'll describe his listings a bit better in the future.
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