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  1. #1
    Senior Member recumbenttoad's Avatar
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    Opinions On A Bad Purchase, Please.

    Okay, I don't know if this belongs here or not, but I'll give it a shot.

    I put Brooks saddles on everything I ride now. I have two bikes with B17s and a bike with a B66. I recently bought another commuter bike and wanted to put a B17 on it, so, I was trying to stumble upon a good deal on Ebay for one. I watched several, bid on several and lost several. I then came upon one that looked scuffed up, but that didn't bother me since he said that he only put about 40 miles on it so I figured it was just scuffed up due to "shop wear". I bid on it and got if for $62 shipped. That seems like a decent deal, even though I have seen new ones go for not much more than that.

    I got it yesterday and it's a bit different than the description. The leather is stretched (he never mentioned it), there is blue paint on it (he never mentioned it), the rivets are rusted on the underside (he never mentioned it) and he tells me today that he bought it used (his description leads you to believe the saddle has only 40 miles on it).

    I emailed him and he basically told me he described the saddle perfectly. Here's the actual description:

    "I have a Brooks B17 Champion Standard saddle for sale that is in good shape. There are no gouges or water damage to the saddle. I just don't find that it fits my anatomy as well as I'd like, so I'm in pursuit of something else. The rails are straight, leather looks fine. It is black as you can see in the photo. I put less than 40 miles on it before I took it off. Thanks for looking!"

    Here's the emails:

    Me:
    Well, I received the saddle yesterday and I got to tell you that if you only put 40 miles on this Brooks then they were either a very hard 40 miles or somebody else put some miles on it before you. I have a B17 with about 1500-2000 miles on it and it looks like new compared to this one.
    The leather is extremely loose, the rivets on the underside have rust on them, it's scuffed up like crazy and there is something blue (paint?) on the top of the saddle.
    You really should take better pictures or at least describe your items a little more carefully.

    Him:
    I am sorry you are dissatisfied with the saddle. It was never my intention to misrepresent it in any way. I felt the description was indeed accurate as seen in the ad description. The photo does clearly show the scuffing and blue paint on the saddle itself. It was that way when I received it used off of ebay. I had no prior experiences with Brooks saddles, so I really can't offer any insight as to the tension of the leather. It appeared to be in good shape for what it was, and that is what I tried to describe it as. I keep a mileage log on my bicycles and I only rode this saddle on two rides for a total of 43 miles. I assure you I always do my best to accurately represent anything I sell as you can see from the comments left in my feedback. Again, I apologize for your dissatisfaction.

    Me:
    The blue paint on the rear half of the saddle is not visible at all and blue paint on the saddle was never mentioned. the way your photo is taken nothing is obvious. And, you being the second owner (which I just found out in your response) was NEVER mentioned. If it had been I would have never purchased it, as the previous owner rode it and clearly abused it. I figured by your description that you purchased it new, didn't like it, took it off and set it aside where it got scuffed up by laying around. The scuffs don't bother me, but the misrepresentation does.

    Him:
    I'm sorry you feel that way. I disagree, but will try to be more painfully descriptive in future auctions as per your request. If you had additional questions I wish you would have sought additional clarification prior to bidding. I noted the saddle was used in the advertisement, the scuffing was evident in the photo as was the paint. Again, I'm sorry for you dissatisfaction

    Me:
    Sarcasm noted.

    Him:
    This isn't productive. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not being rude and I'm not being insulting. I'm sorry you don't like the saddle. I did my best to represent it for what it was. I hope you get many happy miles out of it. Good riding.

    Here's a photo of it:




    So, am I the unyielding old curmudgeon? Or, do I have a valid point? I have only given one negative feedback in 9 years and that was to a buyer that didn't pay me. I should have given a couple of others, but the sellers offered a refund, so, I let it go.
    My name is a thread killing word.

  2. #2
    Roll Model krustyone's Avatar
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    I would be offended!
    Have you tried going through Ebay buyer protection?
    Did you use PayPal?
    A couple other routes you might try since he doesn't sound like he is going to satisfy you.
    "Science has proven that if you have one flat on your bike, you will have another one, sooner or later. This is the reason that you should always buy a new bike when you get a flat." Mr Grumpy
    "If you can look at a Pug/Moonlander and not want to immediately go play on it, you must have no joy in your heart." misskaz

  3. #3
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    Scuff it, stain it, change to copper rivets.
    Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right

  4. #4
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    This is why I cringe when I recommend CL bicycles. Ebay is even worse than CL! Usually, there's more distance between Ebay people. With CL people, there's usually the advantage of the buyer knowing how to physically contact the seller. The prospect of future repercussion is much greater. Ebay justice is just too convoluted!

    So you've been obviously had by yet, another Ebay con artist. Well, you might wanna start here:

    http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/item-not-received.html

    Sorry for your troubles, RecumbentToad.

    - Slim
    Last edited by SlimRider; 01-27-12 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Danw View Post
    Scuff it, stain it, change to copper rivets.
    If Ebay customer service doesn't accomodate you, this might be your lemonade!

    - Slim

    PS.

    There's all kinds of chemical paint removers out there.

    ...Wonder what a shoe or leather repair service could do for you, afterwards?
    Last edited by SlimRider; 01-27-12 at 07:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    eBay will require you to pay return shipping on it. You might lose less money selling it yourself?

  7. #7
    Senior Member NCbiker's Avatar
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    At the very least I would hit him with negative feedback. Others need to know what kind of seller they are dealing with. If I was you I might file a PayPal complaint just for principle. The foundation of Ebay is dependent on honesty and the seller was not upfront.

  8. #8
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    It sounds at the very least like he was deceptive in his description and picture, hiding the blue paint and implying that the seat only had 40 miles total on it. You're obviously not going to get any satisfaction from him; so I'd give the negative feedback, then do what I could to fix up the seat.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
    It sounds at the very least like he was deceptive in his description and picture, hiding the blue paint and implying that the seat only had 40 miles total on it. You're obviously not going to get any satisfaction from him; so I'd give the negative feedback, then do what I could to fix up the seat.
    That's what I think too.

    As of right now you've taken a $62 hit. Chalk it up as tuition in the school of hard knocks. You can pay ahead to somebody else with negative feedback, then reduce the pain of the hit by figuring out what you're going to do with the seat. Put it behind you and cycle on.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    OK, I just noticed your screen name. Why is a guy who calls himself RECUMBENTtoad buying a Brooks saddle anyway?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Pistard's Avatar
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    Just take it as a lesson, relist it and sell it with the right info if you cant live with it. Ebay used to great...

  12. #12
    carpe diem elboGreaze's Avatar
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    The guy's ad is not very descriptive of the actual condition of the saddle in the photo. I don't blame you for being dissatisfied, I would be too. I'm not sure why he just didn't offer you a refund ; simple, case closed.
    I ride because... I really enjoy it !

  13. #13
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    I think I would rather have a brooks already broken in a little than a new one as long as there is still room on the adjustment screw to tighten the leather? If the rivits only show rust under the saddle use it untill they pop and need to be replaced. Get some fine sand papper and gently wet sand area just enough to get the paint off then very lightly wet sand the whole saddle but not the rivits, let it dry and hit it with some black shoe polish, then maybe some saddle soap or something if its to slippery from the shoe polish. I am not saying you should'nt leave negative feedback to the seller.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Danw View Post
    Scuff it, stain it, change to copper rivets.
    ???

    It probably would be cheaper and less effort to just get another saddle.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    this might be your lemonade!
    No, probably not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by recumbenttoad View Post
    Here's a photo of it:

    You are implying that it's your picture of it (a different picture than the ebay one).

    This appears to be the photo of it (from ebay).

    It looks to have more wear than 40 miles.

    The seller was not being quite honest in providing the state of the object (how many miles or years of use). He should have indicated (at the least) that it was of indeterminate age and that he had himself only tried it for 40 miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    eBay will require you to pay return shipping on it. You might lose less money selling it yourself?
    How much would shipping cost? He'd also have to pay shipping if he sold it (on Ebay).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-27-12 at 08:12 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ???

    It probably would be cheaper and less effort to just get another saddle.


    No, probably not.
    Within the range of any given probability, there remains a possible outcome that is varied from another. Given that there are only two possible outcomes, here. There stands a fair chance that the OP might possess certain fundamental reading and comprehension skills that will allow him to purchase the materials required to recondition his saddle, without over expending himself.

    Therefore, we could state the alternative, and say, "Most probably yes! ..I think so!". We say this, because our glass is not half empty. It remains half-full, afterall!

  17. #17
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    I know someone who does leather dying and has done some graphic designs on his Brooks saddles. If you think you might want to do something like that on this saddle, let me know and I can hook you up.

    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    Within the range of any given probability, there remains a possible outcome that is varied from another. Given that there are only two possible outcomes, here. There stands a fair chance that the OP might possess certain fundamental reading and comprehension skills that will allow him to purchase the materials required to recondition his saddle, without over expending himself.

    Therefore, we could state the alternative, and say, "Most probably yes! ..I think so!". We say this, because our glass is not half empty. It remains half-full, afterall!
    You aren't making any sense.

    It likely much harder to "recondition" than you imagine. He'd likely be better off returning it (if it's possible).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    I know someone who does leather dying and has done some graphic designs on his Brooks saddles. If you think you might want to do something like that on this saddle, let me know and I can hook you up.
    That's "interesting". It seems that there are more significant problems with this saddle than could be fixed just by dying.

  20. #20
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Looks like it has shop wear, maybe a take-off.. cant tell from picture
    if it has butt impressions yet , so you are good to go from here
    and break it in with yours.
    I bid on it and got if for $62 shipped.
    reasonable price, these days..

  21. #21
    Senior Member recumbenttoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    OK, I just noticed your screen name. Why is a guy who calls himself RECUMBENTtoad buying a Brooks saddle anyway?
    When I joined I had two 'bents, but have since sold them. I may yet have another one sometime in the future.

    You are implying that it's your picture of it (a different picture than the ebay one).

    This appears to be the photo of it (from ebay).
    Yes, that is the actual Ebay photo.
    My name is a thread killing word.

  22. #22
    Senior Member recumbenttoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Looks like it has shop wear, maybe a take-off.. cant tell from picture
    if it has butt impressions yet , so you are good to go from here
    and break it in with yours.

    reasonable price, these days..
    Yes, there were impressions in it. Not really able to see them in the photo.
    My name is a thread killing word.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    You are implying that it's your picture of it (a different picture than the ebay one).

    This appears to be the photo of it (from ebay).

    It looks to have more wear than 40 miles.

    The seller was not being quite honest in providing the state of the object (how many miles or years of use). He should have indicated (at the least) that it was of indeterminate age and that he had himself only tried it for 40 miles.


    How much would shipping cost? He'd also have to pay shipping if he sold it (on Ebay).
    He would be able to charge his buyer for the shipping though And shipping prices would of course be determined by what shipping service he uses as well as where it is shipping from and where it is going.

    recumbenttoad, did you look at the pic before you bid? You can clearly see the age as well as the blue paint.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    He would be able to charge his buyer for the shipping though And shipping prices would of course be determined by what shipping service he uses as well as where it is shipping from and where it is going.
    Assume shipping is $10. He'd have to take the time/effort to sell the saddle and get $72 to break even.

    Since he doesn't think it's worth $62, what makes it seem reasonable to expect him to get anything near that (assuming he's representing the product accurately)?

    Returning it, he's out shipping. Trying to sell it, he's out for potentially more (and talking more effort to lose more).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-27-12 at 12:21 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by recumbenttoad View Post
    Yes, that is the actual Ebay photo.
    I don't think the condition as shown in the photo is unreasonable for the price you paid.

    The issue is that the photo (according to you) represents the condition as better than actual.

    If you have reasonable complaints, send it back (if you can) and eat the cost of shipping.

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