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  1. #1
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    Lawyer lips - who's filed them off?

    My beloved is normally a laid-back easy going guy who doesn't get angered easily. If you want to set him off on a rant and/or hear lots of profanity from him, just give him a bike with "lawyer lips" on the front fork dropouts and ask him to get the wheel out quickly. He'll go into a long speech about how some idiot who couldn't be bothered to learn how to use a quick release properly has totally ruined the whole point of QUICK release skewers with those @#$!!&* "lawyer lips".
    He's already filed them off one of his newer bikes. Anyone else done that?

  2. #2
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    I have 30 some bikes...only one or two still have the "safety" style dropouts still on them Interestingly enough the main ones are the old Raleighs with the shaped cone nut that fits into the notch on the inside of the drop out. Those have to stay on there to keep the cones from unthreading.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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  3. #3
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
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    Two words.... Angle Grinder.
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    rebmeM roineS JanMM's Avatar
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    Have never found this safety improvement to be a problem.
    RANS V3 (steel), RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

  5. #5
    Senior Member cyclist2000's Avatar
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    I don't file them off, they are there for a purpose. I also don't find three turns an inconvenience.
    I don't do vintage, I bought them new, rode them, kept them. Now they are just old bikes
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bustercrb/sets/72157623483647522/

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
    Two words.... Angle Grinder.
    One word: Dremel

  7. #7
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    Shorter word: File

  8. #8
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    If you know what you're doing they're useless, and they get in the way when removing or reinstalling a wheel. This is an admittedly minor inconvenience (except during a wheel change in a race) but also an unnecessary one. They're also a constant reminder that lawyers run the world these days, which some of us find really irritating.

    If you don't know what you're doing they could save your life. But then, so could learning what you're doing.

    If I had a bike with them, I'd remove them. If you have a bike with them, do whatever you want. It's none of my business.

  9. #9
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
    One word: Dremel
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdell View Post
    Shorter word: File
    OK, one bigger word..... FASTER!!!




    BTW: The history of the quick release dates back to around 1927 when it was invented by Tulio Campagnolo for road bikes, and "Lawyer's Lip" weren't mandated in the U.S. until 1976 I believe, so for nearly 50 years Americans were able to use the quick release without the these stupid little bumps, and apparently much of the world still knows how to use them even today.

    Keep them if you wish, but they are just a hinderance for any cyclist who isn't known as "Fred".
    Last edited by Stealthammer; 04-15-12 at 01:09 PM.
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  10. #10
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    I won't file them off because it makes the frame/fork worth less and I sell stuff too often.

    It's a minor inconvenience I can live with.

  11. #11
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    I don't care that much one way or the other...I did once (during a ride) find that my front wheel was very loose in the fork (why? I don't know, maybe I got distracted while attaching the wheel, maybe I didn't tighten up enough before clamping down)...anyway, the lips seemed to be keeping the wheel from totally detaching from the bike, maybe (even without lips) the wheel would have stayed on until I had discovered it, maybe not.

  12. #12
    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Why that's easy:

    Freds leave the lawyer lips on their fork.
    Poseurs file them off.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.
    Have you met "most people" yet? Or did you mean to say that "the true benefit to me..."

  15. #15
    Animated Member ahsposo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
    One word: Dremel
    This what I used the last time.

    I used to use the file.

    Lawyer tabs kind of defeat the purpose of quick release to my way of thinking.

    On my bike with nuts I don't bother.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
    If I gotta look up words, it's not worth my time.

  16. #16
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    file them off on a disc brake fork and it could kill you when the wheel comes out.

    there are alternate skewers that allow for the front wheel to come out easier ,
    but unscrewing the nut a few more times after releasing the eccentric lever
    is not going to be an issue .
    unless you are Racing. on the road , with Rim Brakes .. and need the team support crew
    to give you a new wheel fast. to keep in sight of the moving peloton..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 04-15-12 at 05:47 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.
    +1

    It takes all of 3 seconds to unscrew the QR a few turns when you take the wheel off, and another 3 seconds to re-tighten it when you put it on. I'd want to make sure that the quick-release skewer is tightened anyway.

    Nuts and bolts tend to come loose. That's a rule of life. The only time I'd trust a nut that holds a crucial part of the assembly (such as the one on a QR skewer) to sit tight, is if it were tightly screwed in, fixed in place with blue threadlocker, and left alone. If I can't trust it, I'm not going to try to defeat a safety feature that protects me in the event of that nut coming loose.

    for nearly 50 years Americans were able to use the quick release without the these stupid little bumps, and apparently much of the world still knows how to use them even today.
    In other news, much of the world still knows how to drive cars without airbags and seatbelts, and how to ride bikes without wearing a helmet.

  18. #18
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    Guess what happens if you remove them and later sell the bike. You can have three guesses. bk

  19. #19
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
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    I take them off 'cause they add useless weight.
    more cops have been killed by donuts than guns in chicago it is a medical fact ask any doctor.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Why that's easy:

    Freds leave the lawyer lips on their fork.
    Poseurs file them off.
    Racers remove them too.
    Bench grinders are fast.

    Some people don't understand QR levers, so probably a good idea for their bikes to have them.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 04-15-12 at 09:39 PM.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  21. #21
    Has opinion, will express
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    Oh dear, I am wiping the tears from my eyes as I laugh so much about the doomsday experts here.

    I have just built up two Thorn touring bikes, the frames and forks coming from the United Kingdom. Guess what? The forks, as standard offering, do NOT have lawyer's lips on them.

    We load our bikes into and our of our van often. Taking the front wheels off and on two bikes, then using the QRs on the rack inside the van has been a pain in the butt with lawyers lips. The only bike of ours that we ride often that doesn't have lawyer's lips on them now is the tandem, and the file is ready for that one, too.

    If your front wheel is not done up tightly, you should know, as a competent cyclist, within 10 yards of riding. But then, you wouldn't be a competent cyclist in the first place if the QR was loose, either.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Monster Pete's Avatar
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    I don't have a bike with QR wheels, but if I did, any lawyer lips would go immediately. They almost negate the point of a quick-release- you have to reset the tension every time you remove the wheel. If your wheel comes off because you forgot to tighten it properly, that's your mistake, and were it not for parasitic lawyers then no one would even consider trying to sue the manufacturer. If the wheel comes off because you don't know how a quick-release works (tightening it like a wingnut etc) then why were you tinkering with it in the first place.
    I've got a bike, you can ride if you like it's got a basket, a bell that rings and things to make it look good- Pink Floyd, 1967

  23. #23
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    I've thought about it on the '88 Diamondback, but I'm too lazy.

    (Interestingly, I have two newer bikes that don't have them...)
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
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  24. #24
    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    If your front wheel is not done up tightly, you should know, as a competent cyclist, within 10 yards of riding. But then, you wouldn't be a competent cyclist in the first place if the QR was loose, either.
    This is just snobbery, plain and simple. These discussions about lips usually end up here.

    Thankfully, in the mountain-bike world the standard QR is fast going the way of the dodo.

  25. #25
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I'm amused by the report in the OP of profanity about lawyer lips.

    Sounds like a the pot is simmering wildly over an issue of little consequence.

    They're not a problem for someone who knows how to operate a Quick Release.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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