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Old 04-15-12, 08:01 AM   #1
Rhodabike
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Lawyer lips - who's filed them off?

My beloved is normally a laid-back easy going guy who doesn't get angered easily. If you want to set him off on a rant and/or hear lots of profanity from him, just give him a bike with "lawyer lips" on the front fork dropouts and ask him to get the wheel out quickly. He'll go into a long speech about how some idiot who couldn't be bothered to learn how to use a quick release properly has totally ruined the whole point of QUICK release skewers with those @#$!!&* "lawyer lips".
He's already filed them off one of his newer bikes. Anyone else done that?
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Old 04-15-12, 08:04 AM   #2
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I have 30 some bikes...only one or two still have the "safety" style dropouts still on them Interestingly enough the main ones are the old Raleighs with the shaped cone nut that fits into the notch on the inside of the drop out. Those have to stay on there to keep the cones from unthreading.

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Old 04-15-12, 08:51 AM   #3
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Two words.... Angle Grinder.
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Old 04-15-12, 08:54 AM   #4
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Have never found this safety improvement to be a problem.
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Old 04-15-12, 10:04 AM   #5
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I don't file them off, they are there for a purpose. I also don't find three turns an inconvenience.
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Old 04-15-12, 10:58 AM   #6
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Two words.... Angle Grinder.
One word: Dremel
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Old 04-15-12, 11:00 AM   #7
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Old 04-15-12, 11:02 AM   #8
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If you know what you're doing they're useless, and they get in the way when removing or reinstalling a wheel. This is an admittedly minor inconvenience (except during a wheel change in a race) but also an unnecessary one. They're also a constant reminder that lawyers run the world these days, which some of us find really irritating.

If you don't know what you're doing they could save your life. But then, so could learning what you're doing.

If I had a bike with them, I'd remove them. If you have a bike with them, do whatever you want. It's none of my business.
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Old 04-15-12, 11:46 AM   #9
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One word: Dremel
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Shorter word: File
OK, one bigger word..... FASTER!!!




BTW: The history of the quick release dates back to around 1927 when it was invented by Tulio Campagnolo for road bikes, and "Lawyer's Lip" weren't mandated in the U.S. until 1976 I believe, so for nearly 50 years Americans were able to use the quick release without the these stupid little bumps, and apparently much of the world still knows how to use them even today.

Keep them if you wish, but they are just a hinderance for any cyclist who isn't known as "Fred".

Last edited by Stealthammer; 04-15-12 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-15-12, 11:51 AM   #10
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I won't file them off because it makes the frame/fork worth less and I sell stuff too often.

It's a minor inconvenience I can live with.
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Old 04-15-12, 12:53 PM   #11
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I don't care that much one way or the other...I did once (during a ride) find that my front wheel was very loose in the fork (why? I don't know, maybe I got distracted while attaching the wheel, maybe I didn't tighten up enough before clamping down)...anyway, the lips seemed to be keeping the wheel from totally detaching from the bike, maybe (even without lips) the wheel would have stayed on until I had discovered it, maybe not.
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Old 04-15-12, 03:13 PM   #12
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While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.
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Old 04-15-12, 03:47 PM   #13
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Why that's easy:

Freds leave the lawyer lips on their fork.
Poseurs file them off.
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Old 04-15-12, 03:48 PM   #14
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While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.
Have you met "most people" yet? Or did you mean to say that "the true benefit to me..."
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Old 04-15-12, 04:06 PM   #15
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One word: Dremel
This what I used the last time.

I used to use the file.

Lawyer tabs kind of defeat the purpose of quick release to my way of thinking.

On my bike with nuts I don't bother.
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Old 04-15-12, 04:44 PM   #16
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file them off on a disc brake fork and it could kill you when the wheel comes out.

there are alternate skewers that allow for the front wheel to come out easier ,
but unscrewing the nut a few more times after releasing the eccentric lever
is not going to be an issue .
unless you are Racing. on the road , with Rim Brakes .. and need the team support crew
to give you a new wheel fast. to keep in sight of the moving peloton..

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Old 04-15-12, 05:41 PM   #17
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While I realize QRs came from racing, the true benefit to most people is not that they are quick, but that they are tool-less to operate. Defeating the safety feature thus gives no real benefit and serves only to increase risk. Plenty of people have teeth today *because* of that safety feature. I leave it in place.
+1

It takes all of 3 seconds to unscrew the QR a few turns when you take the wheel off, and another 3 seconds to re-tighten it when you put it on. I'd want to make sure that the quick-release skewer is tightened anyway.

Nuts and bolts tend to come loose. That's a rule of life. The only time I'd trust a nut that holds a crucial part of the assembly (such as the one on a QR skewer) to sit tight, is if it were tightly screwed in, fixed in place with blue threadlocker, and left alone. If I can't trust it, I'm not going to try to defeat a safety feature that protects me in the event of that nut coming loose.

Quote:
for nearly 50 years Americans were able to use the quick release without the these stupid little bumps, and apparently much of the world still knows how to use them even today.
In other news, much of the world still knows how to drive cars without airbags and seatbelts, and how to ride bikes without wearing a helmet.
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Old 04-15-12, 07:07 PM   #18
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Guess what happens if you remove them and later sell the bike. You can have three guesses. bk
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Old 04-15-12, 07:14 PM   #19
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I take them off 'cause they add useless weight.
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Old 04-15-12, 08:31 PM   #20
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Why that's easy:

Freds leave the lawyer lips on their fork.
Poseurs file them off.
Racers remove them too.
Bench grinders are fast.

Some people don't understand QR levers, so probably a good idea for their bikes to have them.
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Old 04-16-12, 01:41 AM   #21
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Oh dear, I am wiping the tears from my eyes as I laugh so much about the doomsday experts here.

I have just built up two Thorn touring bikes, the frames and forks coming from the United Kingdom. Guess what? The forks, as standard offering, do NOT have lawyer's lips on them.

We load our bikes into and our of our van often. Taking the front wheels off and on two bikes, then using the QRs on the rack inside the van has been a pain in the butt with lawyers lips. The only bike of ours that we ride often that doesn't have lawyer's lips on them now is the tandem, and the file is ready for that one, too.

If your front wheel is not done up tightly, you should know, as a competent cyclist, within 10 yards of riding. But then, you wouldn't be a competent cyclist in the first place if the QR was loose, either.
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Old 04-16-12, 02:12 AM   #22
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I don't have a bike with QR wheels, but if I did, any lawyer lips would go immediately. They almost negate the point of a quick-release- you have to reset the tension every time you remove the wheel. If your wheel comes off because you forgot to tighten it properly, that's your mistake, and were it not for parasitic lawyers then no one would even consider trying to sue the manufacturer. If the wheel comes off because you don't know how a quick-release works (tightening it like a wingnut etc) then why were you tinkering with it in the first place.
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Old 04-16-12, 02:37 AM   #23
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I've thought about it on the '88 Diamondback, but I'm too lazy.

(Interestingly, I have two newer bikes that don't have them...)
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Old 04-16-12, 04:44 AM   #24
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If your front wheel is not done up tightly, you should know, as a competent cyclist, within 10 yards of riding. But then, you wouldn't be a competent cyclist in the first place if the QR was loose, either.
This is just snobbery, plain and simple. These discussions about lips usually end up here.

Thankfully, in the mountain-bike world the standard QR is fast going the way of the dodo.
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Old 04-16-12, 05:28 AM   #25
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I'm amused by the report in the OP of profanity about lawyer lips.

Sounds like a the pot is simmering wildly over an issue of little consequence.

They're not a problem for someone who knows how to operate a Quick Release.
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