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NBC - Revolution

Old 10-02-12, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by northernlights
... if they wanted to be more realistic they would show people using both, horses and bicycles. but from what I have seen there is nothing remotely realistic or intelligent about this show.
The thread has more to do with the perception of bicycles portrayed by the (US) media, than realism.

That perception is non-existent in this show
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Old 10-02-12, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
Yet in European and Asian countries people choose bicycles as transportation on a regular basis even with outdoor storage and the same rates of theft.

I say this show reveals the cultural conundrum of bicycle use.

More like it shows the relative poverty of those nations with high bicycle use as a means of transportation. Traditional poverty for the asians, and enforced relative poverty for the europeans (they have added enough taxes on car use to ensure only the privaledged class will routinely use automobiles)...

Of course there are a number of other issues that provide incentives.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
More like it shows the relative poverty of those nations with high bicycle use as a means of transportation. Traditional poverty for the asians, and enforced relative poverty for the europeans (they have added enough taxes on car use to ensure only the privaledged class will routinely use automobiles)...

Of course there are a number of other issues that provide incentives.
You have to be joking. Plenty of people who can afford vehicle use in Asia and Europe ride bicycles on a daily basis.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
It's set abut 15 years in the future ...

They're all walking around and riding horses, but I don't seen a single bicycle!

Seems to me bikes would see lots of use in such a situation. They're far more plentiful than horses and move people far more efficiently than feet.
How many bicycles would still be operational after fifteen years with no replacement parts, no (or very limited) lubrication, no pavement maintainance, etc...

Horses, being living creatures, breed more horses, and serve many additional purposes beyond basic transportation...
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Old 10-02-12, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
How many bicycles would still be operational after fifteen years with no replacement parts, no (or very limited) lubrication, no pavement maintainance...
Again. You have to be joking.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
You have to be joking. Plenty of people who can afford vehicle use in Asia and Europe ride bicycles on a daily basis.
Plenty, does not represent the majority of the numbers who actually use bicycles for transportation. And it is not a question of what they can afford, but rather how they choose to allocate their limited funds. There were plenty of people in the US who deluded themselves into thinking they could afford homes they couldn't...

It is a simple fact that as wealth increases, so does the interest in using walking or cycling decrease. Of course there are exceptions; however, I suspect you simply overlook the meaning of the word exception...
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Old 10-02-12, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
Again. You have to be joking.
Where do you believe the replacement parts (tires. tubes, chains, etc...) would come from?
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Old 10-02-12, 11:51 AM
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Sometimes it's amazing how much human energy and money goes into movie fiction that is colossally stupid.

At other times, when the major premise of a work of fiction is realistic and important -- for example a meteor or comet hitting the earth -- it's staggering how much human energy and money is NOT devoted to that phenomenon in the real world.

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Old 10-02-12, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by A10K
rifles and gunsmithing postdate the invention of electricity
**********

According to Wikipedia "Barrel rifling was invented in Augsburg, Germany at the end of the fifteenth century." And gunsmithing is older than that.


As for bicycles, certainly, lack of electricity does not eliminate mass production. Bicycles would slowly become more and more expensive. Tires and tubes would last for a while, and they make it more comfortable to ride, but as in World War II, you can ride a bike without tires, you can lube the chain with other things than Tri-Flow. So unless people got stupid, I see no reason that bicycles would not continue to exist.
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Last edited by Artkansas; 10-02-12 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:57 AM
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Decades of back stock? Go to any bike shop, commercial or volunteer, and you'll see crates and crates of old parts. People on local Craigslist still sell 80's and 70's bikes with their original tires... heck, I bought a 60's cruiser with its original tires still in serviceable condition. 15 years is not long at all compared to how long some of these things have been in working condition.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
Where do you believe the replacement parts (tires. tubes, chains, etc...) would come from?
Gosh, I maintain lots of bikes while rarely ever buying a new part. Seems there's a vast resource of old bikes and parts to draw from. At least here on planet Earth, Cascadia region.
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Old 10-02-12, 11:58 AM
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Art, that's my point exactly. I was making it with the aid of sarcasm.
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Old 10-02-12, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
Where do you believe the replacement parts (tires. tubes, chains, etc...) would come from?
You've lived a very sheltered life haven't you?
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Old 10-02-12, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by A10K
Decades of back stock? Go to any bike shop, commercial or volunteer, and you'll see crates and crates of old parts. People on local Craigslist still sell 80's and 70's bikes with their original tires... heck, I bought a 60's cruiser with its original tires still in serviceable condition. 15 years is not long at all compared to how long some of these things have been in working condition.
Right now, there is a bike sitting 10 feet away from me in my office has one tire that is 35 years old. The other tire is "new"; it's only 27 years old.

Back in May or June, I rode the Pike-to-Bike Trail here in Pennsylvania. This is a 10 mile section of abandoned PA Turnpike that rides through two tunnels. If you want a really post-apocalyptic bikke experience, you need to check this out. https://www.pike2bike.org/

But back to the topic at hand - I caught a couple of episodes of this show and thought that bicycles were noticeably absent. The show's overall premise is a bit silly, but I'd let that pass in favor of a good story, believable characters, and at least decent acting. Uhh, but most of those things are missing here.

ABC's "Last Resort" isn't too much better, although Andre Braugher is a good actor. That show lost me on the firing of the Trident missile at Washington, DC. First the depiction of the missile flying over the US was laughable (it ain't a cruise missile; it's a ballistic missile - power on the way up and orbital mechanics handles the rest) and that they didn't address the fact that Tridents are MIRV-equipped.

Like someone else said, "back to Farscape."
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Old 10-02-12, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6
Yeah, I'm sure you will rule un-opposed. You can try to take guns away from people...key word being "try". You are not a gun owner are you?

I am a (multiple) gun owner (and bows and knives and potato canons...), my father is a very long-time gun collector and taught me to shoot when I was big enough to (barely) hold up a gun. I am a big supporter of people owning guns, as a matter of fact. I am not in favor of people having their firearms taken away, but then again, I am not a megalomaniacal dictator on a fictional TV show... which is what we were discussing, right? You are making some strange leaps of logic.

If you wanted to dominate a group of people through force, do you sit there and hope things go your way, or do you try to stack the deck in your favor? Obviously you "try" and take away their guns. I never said all of them would be taken, but when you remove the majority, you are putting the fight in your own favor. You make it as difficult for the masses as possible to obtain/own firearms... you can't succeed by saying, "well, we can't get 100% of them, so why try?"



Originally Posted by tagaproject6
You are trying to set-up a TV world based on a people that had a country founded on rebellion, rose up against oppression, and built a nation on very strong principles. Basically you have a nation full of armed people that will not take crap from anybody, and you are going create a TV show wherein they become absolutely docile and submissive in the face of a massive power failure. I dont think so!

A) I didn't make the TV show. And I didn't mention anything beyond the one simple fact that I would (try) to take somebody's weapons away from them to improve my odds against them.

B) (even more off-topic...) People, by and large, have become absolutely docile and submissive to electronics. People take crap all the time from others, as long as they can go and complain about it on the internet.








As an aside (not directed toward tagaproject6): Yes, this is a bike forum, but who cares? Is it really that much of a tragedy to discuss something beyond that? It's not like we aren't allowed to close the thread if it doesn't interest us. Discussing different topics once in awhile isn't a bad thing.
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Old 10-02-12, 01:36 PM
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The lack of bicycles in post-apocalyptic sci-fi settings is pretty odd. For instance, in Fallout, a computer game, which granted has more of an alternate-history-post-apocalyptic setting, doesn't have any bicycles, not even in junkyards. Seems like it would be the go-to transportation method if cars don't work - as previously noted, bicycles don't **** everywhere.

Did The Postman have bicycles? How about The Road? Mad Max?
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Old 10-02-12, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfwerx
A) I didn't make the TV show. And I didn't mention anything beyond the one simple fact that I would (try) to take somebody's weapons away from them to improve my odds against them.
If you are actually going to insert that there is even a hint of me having appointed you as a maker of the TV show...well...there is some strange logic there

I am merely pointing out a fact that if a fictional TV show is going to base their ridulous premise on a group of people that has been largely a free spirit, it is going to be a hard sell. Specially to the the information overloaded, docile, submissive to electronic masses.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6
You've lived a very sheltered life haven't you?
Actually no, but it seems that you like so many others on this forum can't reason very well.

Bicycles are a product of an industrialized society. Collapse of that society would entail the elimination of the infrastructure needed to maintain those bicycles. Yes some would be in use for some time. But an ever reducing number. Horses, however, are a naturally self-reproducing commodity that of course performs a multitude of functions that a bicycle is incapable of... After all how practical is a bicycle pulling a plow.

And some other items, the delusional fail to consider

- Failure of an industrial society will quickly mean a failure of the pave road network. While some bicycles can function off pavement, lets not forget what so many on these forums are quick to point out in other situations. It was cyclists who originally pushed for paved roads (and not paved with cobblestones-which were the original method of 'paving')

- Tubes and tires are based upon natural resources not readily available in a world that has lost its cheap international transportation infrastructure.

- Metal working as it occurs in mass production is not something that would survive such a collapse. Blacksmithing and farrier work would survive after enough folks learned the old techniques--something that would take time. And those spare parts are not subject to one-off productions in any useful quantities. And even more importantly, transportation (the only real need a bicycle could meet) would not be a high priority. Food production and farming equipment and other basic tools would be the real priority for such limited metal working facilities.

- Frames are subject to failure, particularly when used on non-paved facilities for which they were not intended. Any non-steel frames are no going to be repairable in an environment without specialized tig/mig welders. Steel frames are not going to be able to be repaired with wood/coal fired forges in any substantial way.

So yes, anyone who thinks that bicycles would be useful for any reasonable period after such a collapse is delusional...
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Old 10-02-12, 02:13 PM
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I'd rather use a bike than a horse to get around. Horses terrify me, no joke. I won't go near a horse farm or stable, hell I don't even go to horse racing events.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Drakonchik
Gosh, I maintain lots of bikes while rarely ever buying a new part. Seems there's a vast resource of old bikes and parts to draw from. At least here on planet Earth, Cascadia region.
Yes, yes; however, if people started to need those parts because those bike were actually being used in real harsh environments (such as a collapsed society), just how long do you think your supply of spare parts would last? The short answer for the mathematically challenged among you is that a fixed supply will disappear quite quickly without replenishment. And in the OP's scenario, no such replenishment would occur.

And further, transportation (THE BIKE'S ONLY PURPOSE) is not going to be a high priority after the initial collapse (a year at most--where the vast majority of the population dies). Food and shelter (hence hand tools) will be the high priority.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartbacon
I'd rather use a bike than a horse to get around. Horses terrify me, no joke. I won't go near a horse farm or stable, hell I don't even go to horse racing events.
People will not be using horses for transportation (for the most part), they will be using them as beasts of labor to feed themselves.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by umazuki
The lack of bicycles in post-apocalyptic sci-fi settings is pretty odd.
Not if you realize that studio bosses tend to commute to work by car or helicopter.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartbacon
I'd rather use a bike than a horse to get around. Horses terrify me, no joke. I won't go near a horse farm or stable, hell I don't even go to horse racing events.
Most horses are sweeties. They're big, but most are just natural born followers. Put it on your bucket list to get out and pet a horse.

I know you like horsepower. Riding something that's rated at exactly one horsepower can be exciting too.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 10-02-12, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
Actually no, but it seems that you like so many others on this forum can't reason very well.

Bicycles are a product of an industrialized society. Collapse of that society would entail the elimination of the infrastructure needed to maintain those bicycles. Yes some would be in use for some time. But an ever reducing number. Horses, however, are a naturally self-reproducing commodity that of course performs a multitude of functions that a bicycle is incapable of... After all how practical is a bicycle pulling a plow.

And some other items, the delusional fail to consider

- Failure of an industrial society will quickly mean a failure of the pave road network. While some bicycles can function off pavement, lets not forget what so many on these forums are quick to point out in other situations. It was cyclists who originally pushed for paved roads (and not paved with cobblestones-which were the original method of 'paving')

- Tubes and tires are based upon natural resources not readily available in a world that has lost its cheap international transportation infrastructure.

- Metal working as it occurs in mass production is not something that would survive such a collapse. Blacksmithing and farrier work would survive after enough folks learned the old techniques--something that would take time. And those spare parts are not subject to one-off productions in any useful quantities. And even more importantly, transportation (the only real need a bicycle could meet) would not be a high priority. Food production and farming equipment and other basic tools would be the real priority for such limited metal working facilities.

- Frames are subject to failure, particularly when used on non-paved facilities for which they were not intended. Any non-steel frames are no going to be repairable in an environment without specialized tig/mig welders. Steel frames are not going to be able to be repaired with wood/coal fired forges in any substantial way.

So yes, anyone who thinks that bicycles would be useful for any reasonable period after such a collapse is delusional...
BTFU, you passive-aggressive, you! LOL
You are really taking this seriously aren't you? Just wait until the zombie apocalypse!
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Old 10-02-12, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
Actually no, but it seems that you like so many others on this forum can't reason very well.

Bicycles are a product of an industrialized society. Collapse of that society would entail the elimination of the infrastructure needed to maintain those bicycles. Yes some would be in use for some time. But an ever reducing number. Horses, however, are a naturally self-reproducing commodity that of course performs a multitude of functions that a bicycle is incapable of... After all how practical is a bicycle pulling a plow.

And some other items, the delusional fail to consider

- Failure of an industrial society will quickly mean a failure of the paved road network.

- Metal working as it occurs in mass production is not something that would survive such a collapse.

So yes, anyone who thinks that bicycles would be useful for any reasonable period after such a collapse is delusional...


Roads have been paved for thousands of years. With less truck traffic, our current roads should survive for quite a while.

I have to admit that our skies might be dark with coal dust, but it could certainly become a lively steampunk world. There's a lot you can do mechanically and hydraulically. There is no reason that given the parameters of no electricity, the world could not scale back to say the level of civilization in Civil War era United States.

Precision technology is not dependent on electricity. Remember, that the first electrical generators were built without the use of electricity. The first light bulb was not demonstrated until 1879, and that was what drove the creation of electrical grids.

So as far as metalworking goes and lack of mass production, tell that to Samuel Colt. Charles Babbage's designs for mechanical calculators worked when built after his death.

Optical telegraphs can send complex messages over long distances at speeds up to 1,300 Km per hour. No electricity needed.

Just because electricity doesn't work, doesn't mean that we get stupid or can't read books.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

Last edited by Artkansas; 10-02-12 at 03:19 PM.
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