CuriousCurator

I've heard great success stories related to warranties (e.g. manufacturers replacing -- sometimes with upgrades -- in claims that could've been reasonably rejected). I've also heard nightmare stories where buyers just end up losing money due to what can be argued are their own faults.

I'd like to understand warranty issues better, hence the discussion.

I suppose the most basic question is the following:

* How likely does one get genuine manufacturing defect in the first place? And if such is the case, what's the chance that one can successfully argue the case to the manufacturer in a warranty claim?

Presumably it's in the best interest of manufacturers to reject as many warranty claims as they can reason they can, perhaps balanced out with a handful of extraordinary exceptions to preserve or even improve their reputation. Then the next question becomes: what are some things that void your warranty?

* Does racing void your warranty? I believe this is the case with most manufacturers. But then, what about mass start charity rides? Randonées/brevets? Cyclosportives? Fast group rides in slipstreaming pelotons?

* Does alteration void your warranty? I believe this is also the case, but then what counts as an alteration? Surely you can replace the stem for fitting purposes? Does it void your warranty if you upgrade the stock wheels? (This sounds ridiculous to me, but that's one hearsay nightmare story nonetheless). Replace the handlebars from from drop bar to a bullhorn? Convert to a fixed gear? Have Calfee retrofit internal Di2 battery?

* Does installing accessories void your warranty? Surely you can install water bottle cages? How about a kickstand? (see also: Surly's note regarding kickstands on LHT). Maybe a pull trailer? (I think most carbon bikes specifically mention this as warranty voiding?) What about installing accessories that arguably aren't designed for the bike? (e.g. special fenders when there are no eyelets on the frame)

* Is the warranty void on used bikes? (Some manufacturers explicitly states this, but I've also heard success stories to suggest otherwise). What about "new" bikes you buy from eBay that supposedly comes with a warranty card? (Loophole exploits aside, I believe selling and shipping such bikes technically violates dealership agreement, but I've seen a few such cases on eBay, though I'm not sure how legit they are)

* Does it void your warranty if you have a bike shop, one that is not an authorized dealer of that specific brand, work on the bike? What about independent bike mechanics (e.g. Erik Fetch (The Bike Doctor))?

Machka 

When my Marinoni arrived in the shop, it had a dent in the frame. Before I even took the bicycle out the door, I had noticed it and let the shop staff know. The frame was sent back and replaced with a new frame.


Other than that ... I ride my bicycles, and haven't given another thought to warranty.

fietsbob

Surly only gives you 3 years on the frame, and typically components are only covered for 1 year.


Over-broad generalizations , Your wild Guess is as Good as Mine..

mprelaw

I just dealt with a warranty issue.

I bought a GT GTR 5 in April, and had about 5000 miles on it when I decided to bring it in for a winter check-out/overhaul. The shop discovered a hairline crack that began 2" under the seat post clamp, and ran for about 3" across the weld into the top tube. The shop put in a warranty claim. GT not only honored the warranty, they replaced it with the slightly better GTR 2 frame, which also comes with a full carbon fork (the cheaper 3, 4 and 5 frames have an alloy steerer).

No complaints here.

10 Wheels

I overloaded my road bike by touring with a seat post rack and carrying a tent on the down tube.



The bike had 20,881 miles on the 2006 frame.(five year warranty)



The bike shop and Felt had me back on the road with a 2008 new frame in 6 days.

Burton

The only warranties I've see rejected are bicycles that have visibly been involved in crashes - something thats clearly excluded in the warranty terms anyway. Which is not to say that companies will use that as an out because some frames cracked as a result of a crash were warrantied anyway when there were no direct impact marks on the frame.

Lets face it - legit warranty claims are a rare thing and honoring them is some of the cheapest advertising a company can do. Schwinn offers a lifetime warranty on their department store bikes - which of course excludes abuse and normal wear and tear, but covers everything else . Top end brands are no different.

Steve B.

Trek rejected a warranty claim on a cracked Lemond titanium frame because I had the frame painted at a local shop. They had already painted the frame twice. Their paint sucked obviously. There is no possibility the local paint shop caused a hairline crack next to the down tube shifter stop.

Their warranty does as well, so I will never buy a Trek product.

Burton

I can give you a long list of companies that clearly state that painting your frame will void the warranty. So your point is? That since they would't do it anyway they must be terrible people and you'll never speak to them again?

Mr. Beanz

In all fairness you modifed the frame by taking it to another painter. Local paint shop as in body shop or bicycle specific shop?

This warranty is void in its entirety by any modification of the frame, fork, or components


I myself have had great service with Trek, upgrade both times and no questions asked. Of course I don't alter anything on the frame. Pretty much a give me if you expect them to honor the warranty.

Flying Merkel

I cracked the frame on my '97 Rockhopper. It suffered through 12 years of abuse. Found two hairline cracks on the head tube. Specialized replaced the frame with a new Hardrock frame, asking no questions. Didn't like the Hardrock, sold it on Craigslist.

rydabent

Question. Just how in the world can just painting the frame void a warrenty?

Snydermann

Because the new paint can be used to hide repairs from crash damage.

wahoonc

I have several warranty claims over the years. It pays to have a good relationship with your LBS. I had a front hub go bad in a matter of weeks on my Giant MTB. The shop gave me a new wheel no questions asked. I had a Schwinn Heavy Duty ( the built in the USA one) pop a frame weld, the frame was replaced. Only down side to warranties is that the customer is usually on the hook for the labor to tear down and rebuild the bike. I don't ride high dollar high end bikes so in most of my cases the LBS gives me a replacement part and I put it on and save of the labor. Win-Win.

Aaron

Steve B.

My issue with Trek is that they do/did a lousy paint jobs, plural and won't admit it and then won't honor their responsibility to the owners.

Google "Lemond paint issues" or something related and you will find a lot of posts from folks who have had issues with their paint (I've know three owners). Titanium is as well, notorious for being difficult to paint, which is why a lot of frame manufacturers dealing with Ti don't paint. Trek dropped the ball with this, going the cheap route with the result that I needed 3 paint jobs to get the paint to stay on the bike (the original, the 2nd from Trek and the third local). I was refused a warranty paint job the 2nd time the Trek paint started peeling and flaking. Their attitude (and it was attitude when I spoke to them on the phone, after e-mailing photo's) was "You only get one re-paint:".

Well screw them was my attitude, this is a known issue and they refuse to deal with it. The local paint stayed on the frame.

The crack in a frame is not concealed by the paint from the local shop, it came thru the paint (as cracks will in time). If the frame develops a crack for reasons other then a crash or from racing, then the frame is defective. Having the crack show thru the paint over a period of time is going to happen paint or not, thus re-painting the frame has zip to do with the issue. If a frame develops a crack and it shows thru the paint, then Trek would need to strip the area to determine the severity (for their own purposes, in truth they will/should toss the frame anyway). Any local repairs to a steel or titanium frame would be obvious to the manufacturer, and the non-Trek paint is hiding nothing.

Thus my opinion of Trek stands, they are picky about their warranty and their track record with Lemond frames and paint issues is lousy.

Burton

Painting a frame requires preparation and if done properly - that preparation will include complete removal of the original paint and decals. That can involve a variety of chemicals and abrasives and the wrong choices and/or careless use of those can definitively be a problem. Just as with cars, a paint job can look great right out of the paint booth and start falling off 6 months later. And I've never heard of any independent painter warranting the structural integrety of anything they paint. How can anyone but the prep guy know how it was prepared? And why would you then warranty an unknown? Something as simple as the choice of sanding grit is critical and particularly on titanium' the temptation would be to use a coarser grit to get better tooth for the primer and better adhesion for the paint.

Burton

I took your suggestion and Googled "Lemond paint issues" and came up with only one short discussion, coincidently in these forums and dating back to 2007. Maybe Google missed something?

Mr. Beanz

I had two Lemonds and the paint jobs were beatuiful. Aluminum and carbon. The paint was just as sweet as the day I bought them. After 3 years and 13,000+ miles on each. One a 2005 and one a 2007.

Both were warrantied no questions asked, no hassle, not even a second look. But nothing was modified on the frame or altered in any way per warranty conditions.

I guess Ti is different but either way, I would not have had it painted elsewhere if only for warranty conditions.

If you looked lcosely at the frames, both had sweet paint jobs. Especially the yellow, very nice paint!

Rowan

Because the paint is part of the warranty. Remove the original paint, you've altered the frame, you've voided the warranty.

Even Steve.B illustrated this point by indicating Trek did a repaint of his frame under warranty, even though the outcome might not have met his satisfaction. His mistake was having the frame repainted outside the warranty conditions, and when he really did need the warranty, he was out of options.

CuriousCurator

Does anyone have any experience with things like cutting the steerer tube? I think some frames also have seat masts that you can cut down to fit? Do these actions count as alterations, and thus void the warranty?

buffalowings

The steerer tube is part of the fork, which tends to have a shorter warranty period then the frame (year vs lifetime of original owner etc) depends on the manufacturer though.

Burton

Those 'alterations' are expected and essential to a proper fit. They don't void your warranty. Unless of course you cut them too short and expect a replacement for your goof! Painting a bike - or even removing the factory paint is a different story. Kiss your warranty goodbye - even if you do a good job!

Steve B.

You are correct. I cannot now find any of the posts on the subject that I posted to back in the mid-2000's. I had these issues in 2005 or so and cannot find any references. Sorry to make you search.

Steve B.

I think my problem with this was the concept of the paint removal altering the frame. That's a connection a lot of folks don't get or understand, myself included, though the manufacturers can fall back on this. The paint is on the frame and is not really a structural portion of the frame. If you didn't paint the frame, the bike rides the same, thus polished Titanium (and carbon these days). being so common.

My problem with Trek, and the reason I wanted it out there among the Trek love-fest that I was reading, was I felt that Trek did a poor job initially as well as on the follow up of painting titanium, then dropped the ball with a crack that my shop agreed had nothing to do with paint or any re-painting. My LBS felt as well that Trek was screwing me. Others can disagree as much as they choose, but no more Trek's for me.

Burton

So come on Steve - you had an issue with a Trek 8 years ago and you're still carrying a grudge? Think about it - the people you delt with probably don't even work there any more, and MAY even work for whatever companies are currently in your good graces!

But I am a little curious because titanium isn't easy to work with. Proof of that is the price differences on the finish of Lynskey titanium bicycles. Even an industrial mill finish is an extra $175.00, bright brushed an extra $300, and polished an extra $2,000. That for an unpainted frame and the frame only cost $2400!
So what did your custom paint job cost and how did he prep the frame?

Rowan

I agree with you at all that Trek dropped the ball on the make-peace part of this; that the repaint of the bike should have been better and then the company failed to rectify their own bad job.

But your own repaint does open up questions in the warranty environment as to why it was done in the first place. Putting aside your claim, Trek obviously was arguing that it could have covered up an unauthorised metal repair that interfered with the integrity of the frame.

I'd imagine that in the LBS world, there are enough JRA stories to make them suspicious of any claim that comes through the door. There have been enough JRA stories on these forums that have later been revealed to have much more to them than first meets the eye.