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Old 02-05-05, 08:41 PM   #1
Rev.Chuck
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What kind of wheels are you looking for?

I have been building wheels for a long time and have decided to wet my feet in the online end of wheel building. What kind of wheels are you looking for? low end, high end, cyclocross, MTB, road, disc compatible, disc and rim brake compatible, ultra light weight, super burly, touring, tandem?
Let me know. Any info on what you like and the popular rims, spokes, and hubs is appreciated. Thanks, Chuck
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Old 02-05-05, 09:01 PM   #2
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Well good for you Rev. Chuck, you should do well. Heck you have helped me very much with my own wheel building problems! You might consider getting a small website, and some recommendations.
I am an XC guy so i llike the lightweight, but i think on a site you could have something like a "tree" setup. In that one starts by selecting what they are willing to spend here, and then have several catagories by riding style (XC, road, race, etc.) and well yea you make different suggestions. I think a good all around wheelset you could offer which would not be terribly expensive would be:
XT hubs front and rear, i used these for 1000 miles and liked them, not super light but also not very expensive. Velocity Deep V rims, i like velocity rims a lot. I think they are well priced and good quality, the deep V makes it very strong. And competition or just wheelsmith spokes. I know my bike shop likes wheelsmith spokes, they said something about the bend at the elbow is better on WS. THats my 2 cents
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Old 02-05-05, 09:01 PM   #3
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Merton-"hope mtb hubs, rhynolite rims, dt swiss spokes. for no more than $150"

I might be able to get you a pair of hubs and a DT sticker for $150
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Old 02-05-05, 09:10 PM   #4
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Thanks, phantom cow2, I haven't planned very far yet, and have mostly been looking at Ebay for an initial sales point. As for the spokes, I have found no difference between the two. I got to be a Dt fan after meeting Gerd Schraner and going to one of his seminars. The WS spokes are better looking with the defined butt. The Velocity rims seem to be pretty popular and they are cheaper than Mavic and easier to get. I have a set of 105/Aeroheads coming up on Ebay tomorrow as well as a set of Suzue track hub/ Velocity Razors. I built them for my wife but we decided to sell the bikes. I really like the Razor, traditional shape, eyelets, light. Thanks, Chuck
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Old 02-05-05, 09:20 PM   #5
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I think mavic is overpriced. Sure they are nice but i mean the X717's are what 65 a piece? I got rims just as light and nice IMO for 30, thats for the set! Sun 0 degree lite. I built a few wheels for friends over the past months (getting more into it) and i always steer them toward sun and velocity. you could suggest that on their site. What always makes me come back to my bike shop is that they dont always try to sell me the most expensive product. If i get that feeling, i leave and never return.
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Old 02-05-05, 11:01 PM   #6
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Like they say, "light, strong, cheap" Plus, in my case, without fancy new trend, such as radial laced wheel, bladed spokes, dual spoke etc, pop up in the last two years or so. I don't see any advantage but I can see only disadvantage of them. For example, if they can make a 16 spoke radial laced wheel, they can make a stronger wheel with 16 spokes in traditional cross laced. What I want to see in wheel is "Light, strong, cheap" in proven traditional way.

I'm probably in a minority group, don't take it seriously.

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Old 02-05-05, 11:51 PM   #7
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allgoo19,isn't it: Light Strong, Cheap. Pick two? The deal about the low spoke wheels is to use a stronger rim, that is where most of a wheels strength comes from. Then when you use fewer spokes, you get less wind resistance. It is all about tradeoffs. I like a traditional wheel 32threecross. They hold up forever, you can make one light, and if you do break a spoke it can be fixed any where without any special tools. I will and have built up every kind of cross pattern, twisty spoke wheels(surprisingly a good very stiff wheel) bladed, radial, crows foot. and you do not get much out of the funky patterns. A radial wheel only weighs a couple of grams less than a three cross. It has a little better air flow and is a little stronger if not under a torque load (OK for front, bad for rear) but is pretty hard on the hub. Some makers will not cover their hubs if they have been radial laced. I have a front wheel for my fixed that is more or less conventional, OK, it is two cross/twisty spoke. It weighs less than a LEW carbon at a bout 1/4 the cost. It has also held up better than the LEWs that I have worked with. Nothing against them, they probably have less inertia due to the very light rim and also have a brake surface which my wheel lacks (Track tubular rim)
As to the light/cheap/strong, I can build a 720 gram rear wheel, with traditional build, that would be a great race wheel and could probably stand daily riding(For real daily riding it would end up around 800 grams, heavier spokes, brass nipples) with a rider under 170 but it would also be around $340, just for the rear. I could also build a good, solid, every day rear wheel, under 1000 grams, for less than $150. It just depends on the priorities, Thanks, Chuck
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Old 02-06-05, 01:41 AM   #8
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Velocity Deep V Rims with Phil Wood track hubs...yum.
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Old 02-06-05, 07:11 AM   #9
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Well, as for lightless i found online icyclesusa on ebay sells a set of 240's for 200. Which considering quality, is not a bad price at all. I think on their site its 175 for the rear and 90 for the front. Plus they offer these "ritchey logic spokes" which are very light and at a dollar a piece not going to lighten your wallet like titanium spokes (which are a waste IMO). Allgoo19 might be interested in something like that. Or well it depends on his budjet, and thats not for discs. I know on ebay there was this one hub which was nade by DT and it said Hayes on one side, for the front. For 20 bucks i got it and i loved it.
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Old 02-06-05, 07:12 AM   #10
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plus i think it was somewhere around 200 grams for the front hub, its the same specs as the onyx i believe, which if you ask me for 20 is a steal
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Old 02-06-05, 09:56 AM   #11
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The 2 custom guys I think most about are Dave Thomas and Mike at Oddsandendos. I think both of them build top quality wheels and both stand out for one huge reason - they take the time to talk to you.

I think both could be a lot better with one small improvement - better websites. Mike's is mediocre at best and Dave's is completely useless. Product photography, options and prices can go a long way to selling your wares and keeping you off the phone answering the same questions over and over.

From a roadie perspective, I think offerring a line of 3 to 4 wheels from low to high end cost and performance with options for parts and colors would seem to be a good idea.

Good luck Chuck - with some decent marketing and word of mouth, you'll do great.

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Old 02-06-05, 11:09 AM   #12
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Hey Chuck,

I need a set of wheels for my new Trek Equinox 7. The Bontrager wheels are nice but I don't want to ride them on a daily basis. Components I like are Ultegra hubs, DT spokes and Mavic rims. Since these wheels would be for training weight isn't an issue but durability is. Feel free to PM me a quote for a set .
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Old 02-06-05, 01:04 PM   #13
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Truthfully, I think that sometimes boreing is good. A set of Open Pros on Ultegra hubs suits me fine. I guess it's one of those good news/bad news kind of things, but I can sometimes buy a prebuilt set for less than the cost of the components. I hope that you have a way to work around the cost of components issue. Can you get a break from Shimano if you order 100 hubsets at a time?
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Old 02-06-05, 02:54 PM   #14
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As a commuter I like strong, low maintence, hand built wheels. I have a front Mavic touring 36 spoke with an XTR hub and a rear Mavic touring 36 with an XT hub. I've had them for 10 years and they have taken a lot of abuse on three continents. They were built by a guy who was desrcibed in awe by the woman who owns the LBS where I bought them from as a "wheel building freak. He just KNOWS how to build a wheel". That's what I want.
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Old 02-06-05, 04:30 PM   #15
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I'm a lightweight(135lb) rider who doesn't punish his road wheels very mugh.

I like the design of the Kyseriums, low spoke count and semi-aero rims.

If you could make something like that with a bit lower weight and cheaper I would buy a pair. (someday, don't need wheels right now)

I would say, around $600 for a pair of wheels like that?
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Old 02-06-05, 05:08 PM   #16
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Thanks for all of your replies. I had a nice long reply but I touched the wrong key and POOF.
For now this will be a parttime thing so quantity buys are unlikely. This will make competetive pricing a little hard. My wife is in this as well and we both pride ourselves on customer service. You can't make everyone happy but we try. She is does our employers web stuff so when we get a site up it should be pretty clean and easy to navigate. She also is a good photographer and good with photoshop so any pictures should be nice as well. One day we hope to have a real shop and make it the best in town

Forum rider, just for grins I looked up the Kysruim SL weight. Mavic claims 1500 grams
I could make a wicked set of 240 hubs, 28 hole, radial front, deep V rims, aerolite bladed spokes, alloy nipples, all black. They would weigh around 1540g(A little heavier than the SL) and cost would be around $780 maybe a little less. But if you were willing to forgo the aero look, Same hubs, threecross with DT revolutions, aloy nipples, and Velocity razors. Weight would be right under 1300g and they would be about $560. The aero spokes are killer on the wallet and the Aero profile rims add a bunch of weight.
Thanks again, Chuck
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Old 02-06-05, 05:27 PM   #17
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Round?
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Old 02-06-05, 05:28 PM   #18
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no...not round...Free! I'm gonna go with Free. Got free?
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Old 02-06-05, 06:30 PM   #19
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I like Sam's ideas. Free is the word.

Past that, though, I want bombproof 650c track wheels.
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Old 02-06-05, 07:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
Forum rider, just for grins I looked up the Kysruim SL weight. Mavic claims 1500 grams
I could make a wicked set of 240 hubs, 28 hole, radial front, deep V rims, aerolite bladed spokes, alloy nipples, all black. They would weigh around 1540g(A little heavier than the SL) and cost would be around $780 maybe a little less. But if you were willing to forgo the aero look, Same hubs, threecross with DT revolutions, aloy nipples, and Velocity razors. Weight would be right under 1300g and they would be about $560. The aero spokes are killer on the wallet and the Aero profile rims add a bunch of weight.
See, this is what I'm talking about!

Thanks Rev. Chuck, for your informative opinion.

Edit: I think you should post the similar wheel comparison on your web site. People come to your web site looking for fancy, trendy aero wheels may not like it, but it's the truth and they should know. I think some people still want aero look wheels just for the look of it. It's their business and they were informed.

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Old 02-06-05, 09:48 PM   #21
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I have to say. The guy that needs an aero wheel probably will not have a problem with a little extra weight. These guys are usually tri-atheletes or time trialers. Once they get up to speed the extra rotational mass may actually help them keep smooth and at speed. The kind of courses they ride do not often have big climbs or lots of tight turns where they need to slow quickly and speed back up. But a road rider esp. a guy that races crits or just does a lot of city riding gets more benefit out of a light wheelset esp. if the rims are light. Makes it easier to spool back up, less gyro resistance to turn in, less of a cross wind problem.
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Old 02-06-05, 09:57 PM   #22
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Sam, I don't know about free. Maybe a little bartering. Got any Vintage watercooled VW hotrod parts or two stroke Yamaha stuff. I need a CB-160(or bigger early Honda twin up to 360) in decent shape. I might even take an H-2. Oh yeah, Daddy needs a big screen TV

Dave, are you looking tubular? I might have to look around some for those in 650. Might be some good stuff in clincher. I got a couple of guys that race chairs and handcycles that use that size.
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Old 02-06-05, 10:12 PM   #23
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Weighing 235 lb I am interested in strong wheels. I am happy with my 30 mm deep Vuelta Airline rims. Would asymetric rear rim give a better strength for less weight.
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Old 02-06-05, 11:12 PM   #24
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Sounds good Rev. I would be willing to get rid of the aero rims as they don't make a huge difference, just look cool i would also be willing to pay a bit more for the excellent customer service you are advertising. It's always ok to pay a bit more for friendly service!

But, like I said, I don't need any wheels right now(nor do I have the cash) so maybe sometime in the future I could indulge myself.
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Old 02-07-05, 08:58 AM   #25
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Andrew, I don't have anything that right up says the asymetric rims make for a stronger wheel other than the people that make them. But it certainly seems to me like the would be stronger due to the more even spoke tension on each side. Usually for the big guys I reccomend the deep section rims. They are heavier but realy resist lateral movement.

Forum*rider let me know whenever you want a wheel and I will get you a price.
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