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Old 05-10-02, 09:56 PM   #1
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Sorry Son, You Fail

Heading home from work yesterday I think I cost some young guy his drivers license.

I don't work too far away from a Police Licensing Centre. As I was coming up to an intersection where I had right of way, I noticed a little green car with Learner Plates at the Stop sign to my right.

I was a bit wary and started to slow down as the driver pulled away and headed in my direction. I think the passenger saw me and mentioned that it's not a good idea to run down cyclists. The guy stopped in the middle of the intersection to let me pass.

I'm pretty sure the passenger was an examiner.

At first I felt a bit sorry for the guy, knowing that he'd miss out on his license, but then good sense kicked in and I realised that I had just kept an innattentive driver off the road.
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Old 05-10-02, 10:40 PM   #2
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Do you really think that he wont get his license now? The drivers ed instructors must be strict there, because if that happend here, I bet the person would still get their license.
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Old 05-10-02, 10:46 PM   #3
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There are some things that give you a 'fair' marking - some give you a 'poor' marking. It's something like 3 'fair' points make 1 'poor' and 3 'poor' points mean you fail. (Or at least it was something like that back when I got my license.)

There are also some actions that will give you an immediate fail. I'm sure that leaving a Stop sign when another vehicle is approaching would be an immediate fail.
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Old 05-10-02, 10:49 PM   #4
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Yea, but he left a stop sign in the path of a bicycle....they probably laughed and drove on after that.
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Old 05-10-02, 10:59 PM   #5
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The examiner didn't look at all pleased. (The steam coming out of his ears and the heavy scowl were a dead give away.)

There has been a real push over many years to make obtaining a license tougher. The hope is that people will stop seeing a drivers license as a 'right' and to see it more as a priviledge. As a result, those guys look for any reason to fail young wannabe drivers.

I know that once people have licenses they cease to care about us cyclists, but they have to get their license first.
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Old 05-10-02, 11:20 PM   #6
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As a result, those guys look for any reason to fail young wannabe drivers.
Thats the way it should be here. Some of the kids that were in my class were pretty bad drivers. I was in the car with a girl that slammed on the brakes and swirved to avoid a squirrel. And a few kids dont know how to let off the brake when you come to a stop so you dont get whiplash. There should be 2 different age groups that you could take drivers ed in. We can take our first segment at 14 and 9 months. That segment should be strict because of the young age, and there should be an older group for the people that failed the first segment because they werent good drivers.
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Old 05-11-02, 12:51 AM   #7
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Mediacreations, here in my state they what is called a Graduated Drivers License or GDL program. It is what a teenage drive has starting at the age of 14 and they have until they are 18, if they do not screw up. At 14 they are issued a learners permit, if they pass a written test. That gives them the privlege, not right, to learn to drive with another adult licensed driver in the car with them. If they pass Drivers Ed. and they pass another test they are issued a license, again it is the next step in the GDL program. This happens around the age of 16 for most kids. If they keep their noses clean and stay out of trouble when behind the wheel of a car they get a regular adult drivers license when they turn 18. But if they scew up, which most of them do, they can lose it until they are 21 in some cases.

I recently had to renew my license, and I decided to do it on a Sat., bad idea BTW. There were a lot of kids getting their GDL's. One 16 year old boy thought he was all big and bad cause now he had a license. And he was of course expressing his bad ass attiude as 16 yr old boys will do. Well his dad was with him, when he started to express his attitude his dad took his license and grounded him from driving for a week because of his attitude. This all happened in front of everyone in the DOT office. Of course the other kids were all saying how unfair it was. Their parents told them to shut up or they were next. It got real silent after that. As I was sitting there waiting for my number to be called for my renewal all I could think of was there is a DUI before she is 18, he is going to cause a accident with in a month. And things of that sort when looking at these kids.

I have a ture story to tell it is rather long. I'll tell it if I am asked. It is about a bunch of kids, high school seniors and juniors out for a good time in mom and dads car, they are drinking and driving and they get into a accident in front of my in-laws house. Want to know more ask and I will tell. Let me put it this way one girls life was ruined by her stupid mistake and decision. No one was killed or seriously hurt, but her life will never be the same again.
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Old 05-11-02, 12:57 AM   #8
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Mediacreations, here in my state they what is called a Graduated Drivers License or GDL program. It is what a teenage drive has starting at the age of 14 and they have until they are 18, if they do not screw up. At 14 they are issued a learners permit, if they pass a written test. That gives them the privlege, not right, to learn to drive with another adult licensed driver in the car with them. If they pass Drivers Ed. and they pass another test they are issued a license, again it is the next step in the GDL program. This happens around the age of 16 for most kids. If they keep their noses clean and stay out of trouble when behind the wheel of a car they get a regular adult drivers license when they turn 18. But if they scew up, which most of them do, they can lose it until they are 21 in some cases.
Utah is thinking about a GDL program, im all for it, and honestly with that was avalible when i started to drive.
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Old 05-11-02, 10:32 AM   #9
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Well, I guess ours goes like this. You take drivers ed at 14 and 9 months, you pass and drive with a parent for 6 months, and then take segment 2, take a driving test and wait till your 16 to get your permanent license.
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Old 05-11-02, 01:55 PM   #10
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Utah is thinking about a GDL program, im all for it, and honestly with that was avalible when i started to drive.
A lot of the parents do not like the GDL because they have to often times be there to pick their kids up because the kids are not allowed to drive after and before a certain time of day. And they are only allowed to drive to and from certain destinations during the hours they are allowed to drive. For a lot of the parents it means they have to change their schedules around. I say to damn bad. It almost sounds like parents don't want to keep tighter control over thier kids when thye should be to keep them out of trouble. With the GDL they have to keep more control over what their kids are doing and where they are at. Which they should be doing in the first place.
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Old 05-11-02, 03:56 PM   #11
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We have a GDL system up here in Ontario. I'm a parent and I'm all for it. I see (as I'm sure we all have) too many arseholes on the road and there never seems to be a police officer around when they screw up or do stupid stuff.

I mean just this morning riding into work there's this guy probably just a little younger then I am and he's flyin' down the middle of two lanes across a bridge that spans the Don Valley in T.O. After you cross the bridge the road curves left and almost immediately there is a set of lights, RED lights. So as dumb a$$ goes careening around the corner, sees the lights, lock up his brakes, squealing to a stop for 20ft before getting to the intersection.

I almost caught up to the guy as I wanted to get a good look at his face. In Ontario if you can identify the driver, get a plate number and file a report with the police they will find the owner or who ever was driving and arrest them. Then I just go a pick them out of a line up. If I point out the right guy bingo! He can faces whatever charges are deemed appropriate by the police. Unless of course he admits to it without me having to do so which happens a lot in these cases.

Anyways, I look foward to teaching my daughter how not to be a moron behind the wheel. But thats not for another 15 years at least. I figure by that time we will have burned up all our fossil fuels and everyone will be force to ride a bike. Making the air cleaner and the human populations fitness level skyrocket!!
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Old 05-11-02, 03:59 PM   #12
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Automobile accidents are the number one killer of teenagers in the U.S. (I believe that's still true.)
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Old 05-12-02, 04:37 PM   #13
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There are some things that give you a 'fair' marking - some give you a 'poor' marking. It's something like 3 'fair' points make 1 'poor' and 3 'poor' points mean you fail. (Or at least it was something like that back when I got my license.)

There are also some actions that will give you an immediate fail. I'm sure that leaving a Stop sign when another vehicle is approaching would be an immediate fail.
Stopping in the middle of an intersection probably would be as well.

Personally I reckon simply being male and under 25 should count for at least 1 'poor point' before the ignition is even turned.

From where I sit no-one cost this guy his license but himself. You were just the the man on the spot that gave him the opportunity.
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Old 05-12-02, 06:10 PM   #14
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Wouldn't it just make more sense to get all those bikes off of the road? If they would, then the people who belong there (people in cars) could concentrate more on things that matter, like makeup and cell phones.
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Old 05-12-02, 06:12 PM   #15
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What is really frightening is you allow people undre 15 years old behinbd a wheel !

Here in Europe in minimum age is 18, and at that age unless you have rich parents no company will insure you at much under 25 for anything aproaching a sensible sum.

The idea is to get all under 25's and over 65's off the roads.

Once that is doen, they will then start on the central core of vehicles and get as many cars as possible off the roads.

To say those in the USA have a way to go is an understatment. What happens when the oid runs out ?
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Old 05-13-02, 04:29 AM   #16
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From where I sit no-one cost this guy his license but himself. You were just the the man on the spot that gave him the opportunity.
Exactly. My first reaction was that I cost him his license. Then I came to my senses and realised it was all down to him.

I'm glad it happened when there was an examiner in the car to point out that a cyclist was on the road and not when he was by himself when he would have cruised straight on through.
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Old 05-14-02, 04:24 AM   #17
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i'm not up on driver licensing stuff, but as far as i know many states in the US (Texas and Oregon) have been making it EASIER to get a license b/c they don't have the funds to give the tests...

In Texas i was applauled a few years back when i found out (from a friend's daughter) that you no longer had to take a driver's test to get your license. If you took driver's education classes and passed the written test, you got your license at 16 without any behind-the-wheel driving test! I know when i was 15 and took driver's ed the only reason i listened to the 'old boring' instructor was because i knew i had to pass the test to get my license... and anyone who pays the money passes driver's ed... because the already paid the money and they don't want a wrap as a 'hard program' b/c they'll lose business to other programs

as far as i know, many of these states have tried to limit yound drivers to not driving late at night and some have made it illegal to have more than 2 youths in the car at a time... but i have not heard of the license being more difficult to get, but rather, EASIER to get. (for the record, Texas was already super-easy to earn a license in back in 1986 when i got mine)

does anyone know a person who failed to earn a license in the US? (other than someone with a physical or mental handicap) i don't and i also know plenty of people who POSITIVELY should not have their licenses like my grandmother (nice woman) but she cannot control her vehicle and often forgets where she is and has to stop in the middle of the road for a while to think about it (not joking) --- she now has a permenant live-in nurse b/c she can't take care of herself, but she's still allowed by the government to drive
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Old 05-14-02, 07:30 AM   #18
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does anyone know a person who failed to earn a license in the US? (other than someone with a physical or mental handicap)
I have a friend (Honor roll, high school actor, band member) that failed his first driving test. In Indiana, right turns on red are legal. He was nervous and attempted a left turn on red. The next time he took the test, he passed the test easily.

To the best of my knowledge, he has not been in any accidents.

Indiana used to hand out waivers so that if you pass your driving test during Driver's Ed., you didn't have to take the driving test from the Bureau of Motor Vehicles. A few years ago, the state made the waiver tougher to get.

The state of Indiana is one of those states that limit who can ride with new drivers. If the new driver is under 18, they get a probationay license. With this license, the driver is not allowed to have any passengers unless there is a licensed person over the age of 21 in the front seat.
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Old 05-14-02, 08:01 AM   #19
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I finally allowed Son #1 to get his instruction permit at age 17.5+. I told him that driving requires maturity and that grades are a sign of maturity. Since his two most recent report cards have been straight-As with a heavy academic courseload, he must have gotten the message. He spent his spring break in a driving school classroom and is perioidically taking the same company's behind-the-wheel instruction, in addition to practice drives with his parents. Personally, I like California's graduated driver program, under which his hours and passenger loads will be restricted for the first few months. The traffic death rate for teenagers has been declining (although the girls are catching up with the boys), so the state must be doing something right. I strongly believe the driving age should be raised to 18, and I am subjecting both of my boys to my whims on this issue.
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