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Old 02-09-05, 08:33 PM   #1
allgoo19
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Bicycle facts.

Article I found on the net, thought interesting. For those right leaning people, relax, it's just a liberal propaganda.

A little sample...
"In built-up areas of the country, we devote more land to our cars than to our homes, wrapping the nation in 38.4 million acres of roads and parking lots, a vast blanket of concrete as big as Rwanda.

Number of bikes that fit in one car parking lot space is 14. "

http://www.self-propelled-city.com/facts.html
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Old 02-09-05, 08:51 PM   #2
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14 is pushing it. Number seven might be kind of hard to get out.
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Old 02-09-05, 09:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
14 is pushing it. Number seven might be kind of hard to get out.
Maybe they were trying to be into the Guiness?

Seriously, when you design a parking lot, you have to consider the space between the cars by 3 feet each and a car and half length for the isle. So, I don't think it's very unrealistic.

Last edited by allgoo19; 02-09-05 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 02-09-05, 10:43 PM   #4
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The way we store them in the shop, you can fit 14 in the space of a a parking spot but it can be hard to get them out esp. when they have wide bars. You also need to allow about anothe parking space on each side, of the bike spot, to get the bike out and turned to go. or more practically reinstall you front wheel after you have properly locked it up.

The stuff is pretty interesting but sometimes they pushed the stats to make them look better/worse when a more honest answer would have been just as bad and more believable. Like the twenty percent of income to own and operate the family cars. I checked and our worse year ever, buying a new car, blown turbo and headgasket in the van, all service, insurance, tax and fuel cost(40 miles a day) was just under 13% and usually it is about 4% and we don't even have a great income
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Old 02-09-05, 10:47 PM   #5
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I'm afraid your disclaimer was wasted keystrokes. Even as a very right-leaning rider (even more so when making a right turn), I find no reason at all to be concerned that this is liberal propoganda. I couldn't find any contradiction or figures that sounded outrageous and most I've heard before or confirm suspicions I've held, although the last few are hyped a little bit. It all points back to the fact that most Americans are lazy or at least negligent of not only environmental, but also economic concerns.

14 bikes....child's play. With bikes there's no reason you can't use a rack. If you use vertical racks that hold the bike by the wheel, and alternate bikes facing up and down, you can easily fit 14 in that space. The last building I lived in we had a bike room with racks like that and had about 30 bikes in perhaps 200 square feet. The only problem was some people were not very conscientious about pulling their bikes out and I picked up a few scratches on mine.
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Old 02-10-05, 09:49 AM   #6
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When you put the bikes in longways, I can get about 25 bikes in a parking space. I use a system of alternating the seat heights, one all the way down, then next all the way up, then positioning the all the cranks with the left crank at 6:00 or 8:00. The bit BUT is, these are all beach crusiers
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Old 02-10-05, 10:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlucky13
I'm afraid your disclaimer was wasted keystrokes. Even as a very right-leaning rider (even more so when making a right turn), I find no reason at all to be concerned that this is liberal propoganda. I couldn't find any contradiction or figures that sounded outrageous and most I've heard before or confirm suspicions I've held, although the last few are hyped a little bit. It all points back to the fact that most Americans are lazy or at least negligent of not only environmental, but also economic concerns.

14 bikes....child's play. With bikes there's no reason you can't use a rack. If you use vertical racks that hold the bike by the wheel, and alternate bikes facing up and down, you can easily fit 14 in that space. The last building I lived in we had a bike room with racks like that and had about 30 bikes in perhaps 200 square feet. The only problem was some people were not very conscientious about pulling their bikes out and I picked up a few scratches on mine.
I don't now about the figures but they got a few facts wrong, like Regan wasn't President until 1981. They also do not provide sources for there numbers. One I don't Understand is the Calories to bike and calories to drive a car? You maybe able to fit 14 bikes into one parking space, but if you are using to compare what space bikes would take up in normal parking situations, it is an unrealistic number.
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Old 02-10-05, 10:07 AM   #8
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I don't think it's an unrealistic number

Hello pictures http://www.photoguide.to/amsterdam/bicycles.html
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Old 02-10-05, 10:35 AM   #9
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Just to keep harping on the number, it also presumes that 14 strangers would have the forethought to place their bikes in a fashion that would allow others to install or remove their bikes, without scratching up each others bikes. Based on the racks I pass every day, it would never happen.
Don't get me wrong I like bikes. But there are practical limits. Work is twenty miles away, so I drive, but my wife and I go together, she drops me off and them goes to her shop. If I have to run an errand in town I take my fixie, left at work for that purpose. Where I live it is impossible to run an errand under eight miles, that would be the grocery store. But it is onthe way home, so making a special trip is usually moot anyway. If we don't have it, we just wait until tomorrow and pick it up then, on the way home.
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Old 02-10-05, 11:08 AM   #10
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I think 14 bikes is possible. I've seen like then locked to the same signpost.
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Old 02-10-05, 12:45 PM   #11
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I have some stats too.

Kuala Lumpur
Type: Capital city of Malaysia
Annual rainfall: 2000-2500mm (79-98")
Average Humidity: 80%
Temperatures: 28-43C (82-110F)

Pic 1
Location: By Petronas Twin Towers, Kuala Lumpur
Air temperature: 36C (97F)
Road surface temperature: 55C (131F)
Humidity: 93%
TTS[1]: 15 seconds
Ambient noise pollution: 80dB
Rider classification: Badass cyclist

Pic 2
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Air temperature: 28C (82F)
Humidity: 100%
TTS: n/a
TTGS[2]: 0 second
Average braking distance @ 25kph (15mph): 25m (82')
Rider classification: Pretty badass cyclist

[1] Time to sweat standing around doing nothing.
[2] Time to get soaked
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Old 02-10-05, 01:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
I don't think it's an unrealistic number

Hello pictures http://www.photoguide.to/amsterdam/bicycles.html
Pretty much the same way in Japan, but much less organized fashion. American people still see bicycle as status symbol and worry about every little scratches. Commuter bike they think about in other countries is different. Commuters are tools, much the same way you bang up the wrenches. They care much less about bike's appearance. You'll find out when you live there for a couple of months.
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Old 02-10-05, 01:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngateguy
I don't now about the figures but they got a few facts wrong, like Regan wasn't President until 1981. They also do not provide sources for there numbers. One I don't Understand is the Calories to bike and calories to drive a car? You maybe able to fit 14 bikes into one parking space, but if you are using to compare what space bikes would take up in normal parking situations, it is an unrealistic number.
Their numbers for calories are okay. Maybe a bit high. Bicycling takes about 33 kCal/mile. Cars using gasoline at the rate of about 20 mpg would get around 1500 kCal/mile. I usually figure my gas mileage equivalent at about 1400 miles per gallon (a gallon of gas has about 31000 kCal in it.)

I've kept records for my commuting for since 1988 and I figure that I have saved

3000 gal. of gas
$4500
29 ton of CO2
and about 90 million kCals!

That's a whole lot of heat!

Stuart Black
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Old 02-10-05, 03:29 PM   #14
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allgoo19, I don't want my bike scratched by anyone but me. It is my bike, I bought the parts, I put it together, I take care of it. I am the one that gets to scratch it up. It has nothing to do with it being a status symbol. I would be just as mad if some stranger scratched up my Mod bike, which has plenty of scratches I installed competing and training, as I would if they scratched up my new singlespeed. Take care of something and it will last a long time.

Same thing with tools, most of my tools are nearly twenty years old but you couldn't tell from looking at them. I take care of them. They do get damaged and wear out, that is the nature of tools, but it is not through the carelessness of others.
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Old 02-10-05, 05:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
The stuff is pretty interesting but sometimes they pushed the stats to make them look better/worse when a more honest answer would have been just as bad and more believable. Like the twenty percent of income to own and operate the family cars. I checked and our worse year ever, buying a new car, blown turbo and headgasket in the van, all service, insurance, tax and fuel cost(40 miles a day) was just under 13% and usually it is about 4% and we don't even have a great income
The figure is probably based on estimates provided by AAA which state a new car will set you back about 4-6 K per year. Correct me if I'm wrong but the average salary in this country for single filers according to the IRS was slightly more than 30K per year. If someone making 30K year buys a new car, the depreciation, insurance, tax, tolls, gas, tickets and maintenance will be around 20% a year. It also depends on what kind of car and how much they drive but I suspect the figure is right on for those living in the northeast and California.
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Old 02-10-05, 05:16 PM   #16
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I should of said new, to me, car. It is all about picking the right statistics. My mom and her husband bought a new car. Even if they paid it off in one year the purchase would not have been ten percent because of their high income.
I agree with the thrust of the article but the way it is laid out just preaches to the chior. You need to convince the people that don't commute, not (just) reinforce the ones that do. Heck, they don't even make shopping centers walker friendly any more. There is a big strip mall near where I live, near is realitive it is about six miles away. There I can buy just about anything I might need for the week, Petsmart, Homedepot (I hate Home Depot but that is another story), Kroger(grocery store), Target, couple of food place, shoe store, movie theater. But if you want to walk from one to the other, you better be able to dart and hustle. No connecting sidewalks, no pedestrian crossings. It drives me nuts because I refuse to drive to something I can see.
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Old 02-10-05, 05:25 PM   #17
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14 bikes per space? Yeah, right. To attract commuters, bike lockers are the way to go. One of the few truly pro-bike things Portland, Oregon does is to rent out bike lockers downtown. Any area that has "locked" cycles in 14-per-parking space density will be nothing more than a component pick-up location for thieves and a playground for vandals.
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Old 02-10-05, 05:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
The stuff is pretty interesting but sometimes they pushed the stats to make them look better/worse when a more honest answer would have been just as bad and more believable. Like the twenty percent of income to own and operate the family cars. I checked and our worse year ever, buying a new car, blown turbo and headgasket in the van, all service, insurance, tax and fuel cost(40 miles a day) was just under 13% and usually it is about 4% and we don't even have a great income
it says "transportation costs," which could refer to other things than car expenses, such as flying, or taking a bus or train, or even buying a bicycle. i think that stat is just there to say "look, this is how much joe average spends on getting from point A to point B every year, rather than saying "OMG cars are evil bad money sinkholes of DEATH!!" it's a pretty informative page, overall...even if some of the stats are skewed.
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Old 02-10-05, 08:10 PM   #19
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"In Cuba, where there is a U.S.-imposed economic blockade, .... They cost about 130 pesos ($25), have no gears, and are imported from China and assembled for credit mostly by college students."

They have to have ONE gear, don't they? Or else the rider is going to sit there and spin. Golly jeepers, that don't make no sense to me.
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Old 02-10-05, 09:18 PM   #20
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["In Cuba, where there is a U.S.-imposed economic blockade, .... They cost about 130 pesos ($25), have no gears, and are imported from China and assembled for credit mostly by college students."

They have to have ONE gear, don't they? Or else the rider is going to sit there and spin. Golly jeepers, that don't make no sense to me]

Well, you do what you can to keep costs down.
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Old 02-11-05, 12:38 PM   #21
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WHEEL BUILDING
Is it ok to tension the spokes on the left side of a delta trikes rear wheels the same as the shorter spokes on the disc brake side? (not having the problem of needing to be centered between rear forks) or must all the spokes be the same length for the same tension?

If the spokes on both sides are the same steep angle as on the disk brake side, will the wheel suffer from more lateral stress?
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Old 02-13-05, 01:40 AM   #22
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I dunno 14 bicycles doesn't seem so tight I see 4-5 large motorcycles comfortably parked in the same space my mid-size car fills. And it's not like the average bicycle is 15 grand.

This is a standard 2 lane 2 way mainstreet with parallel parking most of the year. note that there is still room to casually pass even when someone stops to wait for a parking space. (each way is like 2-3 bike lanes wide even with center parking)



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Old 02-13-05, 10:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
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WHEEL BUILDING
Is it ok to tension the spokes on the left side of a delta trikes rear wheels the same as the shorter spokes on the disc brake side? (not having the problem of needing to be centered between rear forks) or must all the spokes be the same length for the same tension?

If the spokes on both sides are the same steep angle as on the disk brake side, will the wheel suffer from more lateral stress?
Jawnn, this might be a question better asked over at the BROL forums , in the builder's section. From what little I know, the wheel should be built so that the steering angle intersects the contact patch laterally, so you're not totally free to center or offset the wheel wherever you want.
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