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Old 05-09-13, 11:45 AM   #1
fmca
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Observations on pedals for street shoes

Let me preface this by stating that I'm a fairly inexperienced rider. 35 years ago I had a Schwinn Super Sport on which I did some annual 100 milers. That was then. Today I have a Trek 7.2 FX that I use for trips to the store and occasional longer rides of 20 miles or so.

I upgraded the handlebar grips, added bar ends, and switched out the stock saddle for a Brooks Flyer. All worked out well. Now I want to do something with the pedals. Not the clipless variety that require a special shoe with a cleat, but a "conventional" pedal like the MKS Sylvan. Or the ones I'm considering, either MKS GR-10 (recently introduced) or the MKS Urban.

My question is this. I don't know why all these pedals and others like them are (1) narrower than almost any adult foot and (2) not 100% solid but always have some spots full of holes and unsupported.

Wouldn't a wider pedal that completely supports the foot make more sense? Or is such an innovation undesirable in light of the wish to save as much weight as possible? I'm guessing here. I'm hoping that someone can help me understand this, and perhaps recommend other pedals that will better suit me.
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Old 05-09-13, 11:50 AM   #2
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Ergon PC-2. Live it, love it.

http://www.rei.com/product/830494/ergon-pc2-pedals
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Old 05-09-13, 11:57 AM   #3
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Comfortable it may be, but I notice that it's not completely solid (has holes). It may be the best pedal you've ever used, but look what you're comparing it to. Why not a simple solid platform? And what's the width?
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Old 05-09-13, 12:48 PM   #4
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so Do you need a completely solid pedal to ride barefoot, without any shoes on?
there are some for beach cruisers not very good , but out there..


2 sizes , 2 widths

http://www.ergon-bike.com/us/en/product/pc2

Ive been using them a couple years .. I also have 2 different platform MTB pedals

lyotard 460D pre spud cross pedals, campag and mavic race bike pedals , MKS 'Dutch' rubber block pedals .


the Ergon have become my favorite on the year round commuter.. I use rubber bottom boots in the winter..

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Old 05-09-13, 12:56 PM   #5
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I'll check them out since REI carries them. They sent me a $20 coupon plus my dividend. Might as well use that on something plus they're good about returns. Thanks for the info.


Riding barefoot. Hmmm. No but that's the general idea behind it - a surface you COULD ride on barefoot if you wanted. Like a floor that you could dance on barefoot if you wanted, but you choose to wear shoes.

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Old 05-09-13, 01:49 PM   #6
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One of our local characters here rides barefoot (often up to 50 miles in a day). He has regular platform pedals wrapped in duct tape.
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Old 05-09-13, 02:11 PM   #7
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One of our local characters here rides barefoot (often up to 50 miles in a day). He has regular platform pedals wrapped in duct tape.
No kidding, I once considered something like that.

Later I figured what might work is an insert fitted onto a set of conventional pedals to provide a wide flat continuous surface with no holes. I'd have to try it before I could say that it gives you an advantage over conventional pedals, but it seems like it would.
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Old 05-09-13, 03:53 PM   #8
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I have been using MKS GR-9 pedals.
If I had known of the GR-10's, I probably would have gotten them instead of the 9's.
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Old 05-09-13, 04:10 PM   #9
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Most riders use just the front part of their shoes

Size 14



http://ridingwhilewriting.blogspot.c...ks-sylvan.html

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Old 05-09-13, 04:14 PM   #10
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Did the OP stop to think that sometimes it rains? Or that pedals get wet for other reasons? Or that people on shoes sometimes step in mud oe worse.

Enjoy those solid pedals that never give any advantage the first time you try them in non-optimal conditions.
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Old 05-09-13, 04:51 PM   #11
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Did the OP stop to think that sometimes it rains? Or that pedals get wet for other reasons? Or that people on shoes sometimes step in mud oe worse.

Enjoy those solid pedals that never give any advantage the first time you try them in non-optimal conditions.
Rain and mud are certaily factors to consider, but isn't the object of good design to satisfy various and even conflicting requirements? A non-slip solid surface should be possible, in fact it seems to be a design feature of the Ergon pedals.

Anyway I just want to know why pedals have to be designed to make you put pressure on a small area, often with no attention paid to what part of the foot is impacted.
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Old 05-09-13, 05:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmca View Post
Or the ones I'm considering, either MKS GR-10 (recently introduced) or the MKS Urban.
FYI,both of those pedals are really intended to be used with clips/straps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmca View Post
My question is this. I don't know why all these pedals and others like them are (1) narrower than almost any adult foot and (2) not 100% solid but always have some spots full of holes and unsupported.
My guess would be that it has something to do with the area around the ball of your foot being the 'sweet spot' where you deliver the most power. Anything else would just be excess weight,or worse,would cause you to incorrectly position your foot on the pedal and possibly lead to joint/tendon/muscle issues.

Why not e-mail one of the pedal companies? Ask MKS why pedals are designed the way they are.
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Old 05-09-13, 05:34 PM   #13
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FYI,both of those pedals are really intended to be used with clips/straps.
Sorry, I didn't mention that clips and straps are something I use now with the stock pedals. I plan to continue using them.

Uh oh, I think the Ergons can't be used with clips. No mention of clips in the user manual.


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Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
My guess would be that it has something to do with the area around the ball of your foot being the 'sweet spot' where you deliver the most power.
I thought the same, but there are so many designs that don't seem to target the ball of the foot area or do so in such different ways.

Anyways we're guessing here. Doesn't anyone know for certain? There's certainly a lot of bike knowledge here.

Lastly, I can't even get MKS to tell me the dimensions of their pedals (another sore spot).
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Old 05-09-13, 05:49 PM   #14
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Hi,

They don't have to be but are generally designed (for good ones)
to concentrate the pressure fore and aft, which gives good grip
and the curve of the sole of the shoe has little effect on grip.

If you feel the underside of you foot and push you'll realise the bit
that does most of the pushing is a lot less wide than your foot.

Its the shoe that distributes the pressure, I use quill types with
toeclips with Timberland walking shoes on my road bike, and
plain plastic quill types with light walking boots on my folder.

The quill type plastic pedals fitted to my folder (came with the
road bike but upgraded to alloy and toeclips) feel more secure
than the platformy types that came with it, its that simple.

The reason large flat platform pedals don't exist is because
they don't work well, if they did they would be ubiquitous.

Still, there are barefoot pedals :



rgds, sreten.
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Old 05-09-13, 06:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmca View Post
Anyway I just want to know why pedals have to be designed to make you put pressure on a small area, often with no attention paid to what part of the foot is impacted.
Quill type pedals are intended to be used with hard-soled bike shoes, which spreads the pressure over more of the foot than a soft-soled street shoe. My favorite pedal for street shoes is the Campagnolo "Triomphe:"



Unfortunately, it's been out of production for over 25 years.

I think the MKS "Urban Platform" would be good as well. I have Lyotard mod. 23s on a couple bikes (alas, also long out of production), and the Urban Platform is clearly patterned after the mod. 23:

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Old 05-09-13, 07:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Quill type pedals are intended to be used with hard-soled bike shoes, which spreads the pressure over more of the foot than a soft-soled street shoe. My favorite pedal for street shoes is the Campagnolo "Triomphe:"



Unfortunately, it's been out of production for over 25 years

I think the MKS "Urban Platform" would be good as well. I have Lyotard mod. 23s on a couple bikes (alas, also long out of production), and the Urban Platform is clearly patterned after the mod. 23:

I wore out one pair of those Marcel Berthet platforms more than a few years ago. Back when 'platform pedals' didn't mean something else.

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Old 05-09-13, 08:13 PM   #17
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If you feel the underside of you foot and push you'll realise the bit
that does most of the pushing is a lot less wide than your foot.
Right, but pedal design doesn't seem to target this area in any consistent fashion, Compare the GR-9 with the GR10 for instance. Different approaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Still, there are barefoot pedals :

rgds, sreten.
Great, this is what I've been looking for. Will have to see if it takes clips. Cheap though.

I also found it here. http://www.bikemanforu.com/products/...-Cruisers.html

The guy in the video cracks me up
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Old 05-09-13, 08:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
If i didn't favor clipless (SPD) I would be looking into those. You can't believe how much I like my Ergon grips, and it looks like the same company.
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Old 05-09-13, 08:32 PM   #19
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I have a pair of Ergon pedals on one of my bikes. I have mixed feeling about them. But, so far they are the best platforms I have used. On my road bike I have clipless--Speedplay pedals. I can ride for 75 miles with no foot issues at all. I probably could ride further. On the bike with the Ergons after about 30-35 miles I start to have foot issues. On regular platform pedals this happens even sooner. I also tried MKS Sylvan pedals with cages and the same thing happens. My feet just are not happy over long distances with platforms. It doesn't seem to matter what shoes I wear.
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Old 05-10-13, 04:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmca View Post
Right, but pedal design doesn't seem to target this area in any consistent fashion, Compare the GR-9 with the GR10 for instance. Different approaches.

Great, this is what I've been looking for. Will have to see if it takes clips. Cheap though.

I also found it here. http://www.bikemanforu.com/products/...-Cruisers.html

The guy in the video cracks me up
Hi,

Ive no idea what the alleged difference between the GR9 and GR10
is but can guarantee its marketing speak, bicycle pedal design has
had over 100 years to mature and most basic pedals work very well.

Clips on barefoot pedals ? Get realistic. They are made for summer
beach hire bikes for barefoot and nothing else, they are probably
intentionally not street legal, having no reflectors for night riding.

The more illegal a beach hire bike is outside its remit the better
for those that are hiring it out. It makes them less knickable.

rgds, sreten.

Still with a bit of drilling and filing no doubt you could fit clips
to those flat pedals. The clips would negate most of the issues
with flat pedals but you won't end up with better than usual.

Last edited by sreten; 05-10-13 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 05-10-13, 04:45 PM   #21
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Ever since i bought my brand new Schwinn Cimarron rigid MTB back in 1987,....i've been using the Shimano PD-M730 platform pedals on most all of my bikes. I pick them up on ebay when i see a decent pair for reasonable money,....usually $35 to $50 or so.

I've cleaned out and repacked the grease on 5 sets so far,.....more age related drying out of the grease than anything but the ALL still worked fine when i recieved them. I have another set or two that i haven't got around to yet. I just want them to outlast ME so i repacked them when i had a chance so i'd know they were the best they could be.

They grip really well on either my sneakers or rubber cleated "Sketchers". And i've found them super comfortable with the wide profile.

Here's a set on my 20 year old Serotta with SLX tubing and a Joe Bell paint job back in 1996:


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Old 05-10-13, 05:03 PM   #22
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they are probably intentionally not street legal, having no reflectors for night riding.
Pedal reflectors aren't a requirement in many places. I don't have them on most of my bikes,and my '05 BBU and Hooligan 3 came stock with Octopus pedals that are reflectorless.
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Old 05-10-13, 07:26 PM   #23
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You guys have mentioned MKS several times, so I'll post, I guess. Just yesterday, I acquired several items, including an old pair of MKS Quill 2K pedals, from the 70s. They're not minty, but look WAY better than they should, for being around 40 years old, and the bearings feel better than a lot of newer pedals, nice & tight but smooth-spinning, like they're not even broken in yet. Plus they're obviously user-serviceable, so oughta last a good long while, longer than me I'll bet.
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Old 05-11-13, 08:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejeweler View Post
Ever since i bought my brand new Schwinn Cimarron rigid MTB back in 1987,....i've been using the Shimano PD-M730 platform pedals on most all of my bikes. I pick them up on ebay when i see a decent pair for reasonable money,....usually $35 to $50 or so.

I've cleaned out and repacked the grease on 5 sets so far,.....more age related drying out of the grease than anything but the ALL still worked fine when i recieved them. I have another set or two that i haven't got around to yet. I just want them to outlast ME so i repacked them when i had a chance so i'd know they were the best they could be.

They grip really well on either my sneakers or rubber cleated "Sketchers". And i've found them super comfortable with the wide profile.

Here's a set on my 20 year old Serotta with SLX tubing and a Joe Bell paint job back in 1996:

Those would likely have been called MTB bear trap pedals in the 80's. Neither classic platform nor BMX-style platform.
Can't bring myself to call a pedal 'platform' if there is a plain cage and not a platform of some sort. (Even tho that is now common practice.)

Nice pedals.
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Old 06-07-13, 01:55 PM   #25
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Have you considered MKS Lambdas, also known as Grip Kings?
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