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Old 08-12-13, 08:35 AM   #1
meaculpa
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bad tire for wet weather...

Okay, I just went down in traffic the second time. I bought a Vittoria Randonneur Cross to replace a worn rear tire. Really, it feels like a great tire. But if I need to use the rear brake on wet pavement, it skids out immediately. Twice I've gone down like I'd hit a patch of oil.
Even on a warm dry day, I had to add more rear brake to stop from 10mph and the damn tire started to skid. I've commuted daily for nearly a decade now, this is new.
Any ideas?
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Old 08-12-13, 09:37 AM   #2
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Rear tires skid easily because of simple Physics..

as you decelerate your body mass is shifted forward. that unweights your Rear wheel .

Your tire is fine , Technique is needing work,, use your Front Brake.. !?!

lessen the rear brake, so it wont skid, as the weight of your mass, You,

is , in essence ,still in motion as you are stopping the Bike underneath you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

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Old 08-12-13, 09:45 AM   #3
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I don't like tires with tread on them for this reason. You get less tire on the pavement in this situation. There really is no need for any type of tread on a road tire. I'd suggest trying a new tire that's slick. Also, like the guys said above, stay off the rear brake. Most of your braking should be done with the front brake.
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Old 08-12-13, 09:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaculpa View Post
Okay, I just went down in traffic the second time. I bought a Vittoria Randonneur Cross to replace a worn rear tire. Really, it feels like a great tire. But if I need to use the rear brake on wet pavement, it skids out immediately. Twice I've gone down like I'd hit a patch of oil.
Even on a warm dry day, I had to add more rear brake to stop from 10mph and the damn tire started to skid. I've commuted daily for nearly a decade now, this is new.
Any ideas?
Were you also using the front brake?
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Old 08-12-13, 12:15 PM   #5
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Thanks for the feedback guys, but I must not be communicating clearly here.
So...
1. I've commuted daily for nearly ten years, often in wet conditions.
2. I've ridden on different tires with different tread profiles: Schwalbe Marathons, RIBMO, T-Serv, Bont Hard Cases, etc etc
3. yes, I know I know, don't just grab the rear brake. But ...
4. even if I don't have excellent braking skills, why am I skidding out so badly now? Presumably if I am so bad at controlled braking, this should have happened a thousand times by now, on whatever tire I had back there!

So "staying off the rear brake" and using the front brake, that isn't news to me.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:20 PM   #6
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I think what you're experiencing is normal. Wet pavement and grabbing the rear brake in my experience is always going to result in a skid. Maybe adjusting the rear brake so it is much further out than your front brake... So when you do grab it, it doesn't lock the rear wheel up. That will force you to use the front brake more.

I'm not sure what else to tell you really.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:21 PM   #7
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I did not like my Vittoria Randoneur either. Throw it away. I like my panaracer passela tourguard. I had the same problem. It was not driver error. I did not care for the rubber compound.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:25 PM   #8
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Were you also using the front brake?
10 wheels: as I reread my post above, "I had to add more rear brake" looks ambiguous. I meant adding to the front braking I normally start with. But my firmer point is that even if I do not possess the perfect braking technique of fietsbob, why is my technique suddenly so catastrophic?
My opinion is, for WHATEVER reason, this specific tire is skid-happy. Sorry fiets, it aint me.
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Old 08-12-13, 12:41 PM   #9
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10 wheels: as I reread my post above, "I had to add more rear brake" looks ambiguous. I meant adding to the front braking I normally start with. But my firmer point is that even if I do not possess the perfect braking technique of fietsbob, why is my technique suddenly so catastrophic?
My opinion is, for WHATEVER reason, this specific tire is skid-happy. Sorry fiets, it aint me.
While not the same thing, I had an issue with a car where it was very unstable on wet pavement. So much so that if you did any type of tight turn you would spin out. The tires had a lot of tread left and looked good, but there was something wrong with them. Changed them out and it was a night and day difference.
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Old 08-12-13, 05:20 PM   #10
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Swap it for a regular Randonneur. My Buzz came stock with those Cross models for some reason(it's marketed as an urban bike),and I quickly ditched them. Never had the experience you did,but did notice they felt squirmy in fast turns.
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Old 08-13-13, 07:49 AM   #11
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Hi,

Really a new tyre should go on the front and the old front on the rear.

If its still useless on the front, replace it I guess.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 08-13-13, 07:58 AM   #12
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Not all tyres are created equal and some just suck in the rain.
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Old 08-13-13, 08:00 AM   #13
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Vittoria Randonneur Cross
The "lugs" don't help on the road, but they would be useful on dirt trails.
Yeah, probably not the best tire for wet roads.

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Old 08-13-13, 08:10 AM   #14
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slick tires have 100% road contact. siping for rain , like F1 race tires is not needed..


its the oil from the cars on the pavement that becomes a Problem .. till its rained fo a while,
then its a problem in the river.

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Old 08-13-13, 10:26 AM   #15
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You might want to ride the new tires on the back for a while to grind off the useless "let's pretend" tread, then swap it to the front.

There might be some mold release left on the tire; run it up 100 miles of hills to wear that off before you toss the tire.

That said, Vittoria is still #2 on my personal **** list of bike tire manufacturers. Need a few others to fail to move them down.
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Old 08-13-13, 04:35 PM   #16
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You might want to ride the new tires on the back for a while to grind off the useless "let's pretend" tread, then swap it to the front.
Most tires are worn out by the time the tread is worn smooth,and swapping worn tires onto the front is a mistake.

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There might be some mold release left on the tire; run it up 100 miles of hills to wear that off before you toss the tire.
I'd say the tread pattern is more to blame,but I don't ride brand new tires in the rain for this reason. Really though,they should be well scuffed after a few miles;100 is excessive.

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That said, Vittoria is still #2 on my personal **** list of bike tire manufacturers. Need a few others to fail to move them down.
Curious as to why? I've run Rando's,Rando Crosses,Adventures,and Zaffiros and have never flatted any of them. Rando's are one of my favorite commuting tires,and are considered by many to be the standard for urban riding.
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Old 08-13-13, 05:03 PM   #17
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The tread pattern isn't relevant on a bicycle tyre that is ridden on the street while the tyre compound is very relevant.

Of course, if you try to ride in the rain the same way as do you do on a hot summer day the traction and handling characteristics are going to change... roads tend to be the worst when the rain has just started falling and has not been able to wash away all the accumulated droppings from cars like oil (I see bob addressed this) and other fluids.

A good number of my day to day bicycles run Schwalbe Marathons which are a good tyre in the rain... I also use them on my touring bike and had days when all the riding was done in the rain.

The bikes in Portland run Marathons as well and it is a much wetter climate.
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Old 08-13-13, 06:46 PM   #18
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Vittoria Randonneur Cross
The "lugs" don't help on the road, but they would be useful on dirt trails.
Yeah, probably not the best tire for wet roads.

Hi.

My personal opinion is that tyre will suck new, and will get better with wear,
the stupid ridges on the blocks need to be worn down for it to work well.

rgds, sreten.

Not much to like at all as a road tyre, from what I know.

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Old 08-14-13, 10:24 AM   #19
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That said, Vittoria is still #2 on my personal **** list of bike tire manufacturers. Need a few others to fail to move them down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
Curious as to why? I've run Rando's,Rando Crosses,Adventures,and Zaffiros and have never flatted any of them. Rando's are one of my favorite commuting tires,and are considered by many to be the standard for urban riding.
Never flatted any of them? I don't change my tires until they're worn out, which I normally notice after I get a flat.

For details on why I don't like Vittoria, see http://pdlamb.wordpress.com/lamb-tra...gs-buffalo-ky/. Follow that up with its replacement wearing out (down to the red soft stuff) in another 2,000 miles. FWIW, the Specialized Armadillo that replaced the second Randonneur lasted 4,700 miles. Vittoria moved from #1 to #2 when I had three successive Panaracers fail with massive tread separation. Still waiting for more lousy tires to dislike other manufacturers.
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Old 08-14-13, 03:42 PM   #20
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Was it just that one tire? Kinda harsh if it was. I've run 4 different Vittoria tires(and the Rando's in 700x28,32,35,and 26x1.5") and never had any flats or issues with any of them. The one pair of 28's and the 26ers were a bear to mount,but that was mostly the rims I was running.

Only tires I've ever had issues with were the Conti T&C's that came stock on my Safari(5 flats,2f/3r) and a set of Specialized Crossroads that I ordered through the mail from Spec. They had obviously come from the bottom of a pile,and the beads were messed up bad enough that I ruined two tubes and had to return one of them. I've had good luck with other Conti's and Specs(the replacement Crossroad went on fine),so I just chalked it up to one bad model and a bad set.
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Old 08-14-13, 05:24 PM   #21
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Well, I have to eat some crow here. I went to the shop where I'd bought the tire and told them what's been happening. The owner immediately asked if there was any dings/dents in the wheel rim. So there was and that's what's been causing the skidding, the brakes were locking up when they hit the dent in the rim. To back this up, he rotated the tire to opposite of the dent and brake meeting point, and there was a lot tread loss right in that spot.

Of course, I need to replace the wheel, put the tire back on and see what's what before I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion. Anyway, thanks for the input, looks like I may owe the forum and Vittoria a "sorry for the fuss".
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