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Old 11-03-13, 05:20 PM   #1
agent pombero
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Time for Surly and others to step up their game

1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.

Both 1 and 2 are being done by Detroit Bikes ($550 bike!) See: http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/01/d...96451#comments

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Old 11-03-13, 06:04 PM   #2
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For me that would be $550 plus shipping.. so figure $600. I'd stop by a shop but it appears that there isn't one within 200 miles of me and I live in Michigan.

I like the style. I'm far too old to be a hipster but as a geezer I could get away with riding this thing.

What's the weight on that Type A? I live on a hill, around hills and basically uphill both ways in my area. 3 speeds is fine but if it's as heavy as your average Dutch craplander cruiser then I'll hafta pass on this ride until they offer it in crabon.
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Old 11-03-13, 08:26 PM   #3
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Confused - how do they need to "step up their game" ?

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Old 11-03-13, 08:31 PM   #4
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but it's ugly.
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Old 11-03-13, 08:44 PM   #5
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For me that would be $550 plus shipping.. so figure $600. I'd stop by a shop but it appears that there isn't one within 200 miles of me and I live in Michigan.

I like the style. I'm far too old to be a hipster but as a geezer I could get away with riding this thing.

What's the weight on that Type A? I live on a hill, around hills and basically uphill both ways in my area. 3 speeds is fine but if it's as heavy as your average Dutch craplander cruiser then I'll hafta pass on this ride until they offer it in crabon.
Website listed 30 pounds.
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Old 11-03-13, 08:49 PM   #6
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but it's ugly.
And not really comparable to much of Surly's line. Surly has two single speed and both are better equipped. A coaster brake? Seriously?
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Old 11-03-13, 09:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.

Both 1 and 2 are being done by Detroit Bikes ($550 bike!) See: http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/01/d...96451#comments
Have you ridden one?
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Old 11-03-13, 09:45 PM   #8
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And not really comparable to much of Surly's line. Surly has two single speed and both are better equipped. A coaster brake? Seriously?
I had a coaster brake on my bike when I was a kid! You get goin really fast then slam on the coaster brake in loose gravel and get a cool slide thing happenin man.

I can see myself doing it with the Type A just as I did as a kid.. however I have a feeling that with the tires on that Type A my powerslide will go like.... Sssscchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh KABLAM! then look around to see everyone on the sidewalks laying on the ground with their hands over their heads.
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Old 11-03-13, 09:46 PM   #9
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And not really comparable to much of Surly's line. Surly has two single speed and both are better equipped. A coaster brake? Seriously?
This. Surly, Soma, Salsa, and what have you are in no way comparable to Detroit Bikes. The only manufacturer I can think of to compare is Worksman.
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Old 11-03-13, 09:57 PM   #10
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but it's ugly.
It's only ugly because of the perspective in which you are imagining it placed within. You do not approach a sweet ride as the Type-A wearing spandex and fully-kitted. You probably will want to buy a derby, some knickers, one of those shirts that Joeybike wears and a boombox tied to the back rack crankin Duke Ellington tunes. Then while on the bike you be sure to address people with, "Ello ol chap! Might you have some lube for me backside? Me bum is bloody hell killin me" or the ever popular, "Pardon me m'lady but me bum is bloody hell killin me". If a group a roadies on Trek Madone's pass you be sure to shout, "I'D TAKE ER UP TO 1400 WATTS BUT ME BUM IS BLOODY HELL KILLIN ME"
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Old 11-03-13, 10:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.

Both 1 and 2 are being done by Detroit Bikes ($550 bike!)
If I were Surly, I'd wait and see how the Detroit stuff sells before even considering it. Consumers as a whole don't seem that concerned with where their products come from as long as they're cheap and not too crappy.
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Old 11-03-13, 11:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.

Both 1 and 2 are being done by Detroit Bikes ($550 bike!) See: http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/01/d...96451#comments
There's only 100% fact in this post...Just like the Detroit Bikes are 100% American made. Well, technically, my Surly Pacer was American made in my garage in Everett, WA. It too carries Shimano parts as well. And the Kenda Kwest tires on the Detroit Bikes...those were made in Taiwan and probably shipped over with my Surly frame.

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1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
Please back this up with fact. I am sure Trek, Cannondale, and any other manufacturer could turn a profit as an American made bike. But, the fact is, the labor cost to maintain the quality of their frames compared to a Detroit Bikes frame is probably not important right?

One other thing to consider, I would hope that the original poster only drives a 2012 Toyota Camry as that is the most "American Made" car in the US. (Detroit step aside!) Oh, and here's an article to help support it: http://theangstycephalopod.wordpress...american-made/

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2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.
This is what Detroit Bikes states for their warranty:
This warranty does NOT cover normal wear and tear, normal maintenance items, the use of parts or devices not consistent with the use originally intended for the bicycle as sold, or any damage, failure or loss that is caused by accident, abuse, misuse, neglect, theft, improper assembly, improper maintenance or improper storage

So, what does it cover?

Surly's warranty:
Our frame warranty is 3 years from date of purchase. It applies to the original owner only and covers manufacturing defects only - not horseplay, racing, crashing, or other unauthorized tomfoolery.

This tells me that under normal wear and tear, if the frame starts falling apart at the welds, they will do something about it.

OP: Compare apples to apples. Don't disgrace another company's product with an inferior product labeled as something it's not.

Oh, and your Bikeportland.org link that you referenced....I hope you're proud that all the amazing photos of the Detroit Bikes were shot on a Nikon D300s....That's a camera and lens manufactured overseas...don't worry though, I'm sure they used an American made computer to upload the shots.

Last edited by clarkbre; 11-04-13 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 11-03-13, 11:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.

Both 1 and 2 are being done by Detroit Bikes ($550 bike!) See: http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/01/d...96451#comments
It might be a little too early to tell if this will be a success or not... one does not know how much capital has been invested and what is available, and the profit margins are going to be slim if they are going to compete head to head with Asian manufactured bikes like Linus.

With that being said... it would be great to be able to work for a North American company to help design and build bicycles on this shore.
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Old 11-03-13, 11:29 PM   #14
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My critique of the A type is that the fenders need to be fuller and that the rear rack is rather useless for people who use any modern pannier... a range of sizes would expand their market and am aware they are looking at producing a mixte as the B type.

Perhaps the C type could be a step through design.

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Old 11-03-13, 11:32 PM   #15
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It's only ugly because of the perspective in which you are imagining it placed within. You do not approach a sweet ride as the Type-A wearing spandex and fully-kitted. You probably will want to buy a derby, some knickers, one of those shirts that Joeybike wears and a boombox tied to the back rack crankin Duke Ellington tunes. Then while on the bike you be sure to address people with, "Ello ol chap! Might you have some lube for me backside? Me bum is bloody hell killin me" or the ever popular, "Pardon me m'lady but me bum is bloody hell killin me". If a group a roadies on Trek Madone's pass you be sure to shout, "I'D TAKE ER UP TO 1400 WATTS BUT ME BUM IS BLOODY HELL KILLIN ME"
No. It's just ugly
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Old 11-03-13, 11:38 PM   #16
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And, like the Model T, comes in one color and one size. They may think that it can be ridden by anyone from 5'5" to 6'2" but that's just wishful thinking and certainly flies in the face of just about every piece of advice given on fit on these forums.
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Old 11-03-13, 11:46 PM   #17
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And, like the Model T, comes in one color and one size. They may think that it can be ridden by anyone from 5'5" to 6'2" but that's just wishful thinking and certainly flies in the face of just about every piece of advice given on fit on these forums.
The one size fits all approach does not work well for bicycles at all.

If it did we would not be building customs.
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Old 11-04-13, 06:28 AM   #18
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And not really comparable to much of Surly's line. Surly has two single speed and both are better equipped. A coaster brake? Seriously?
At least it has a dual pivot front caliper brake too.

They should at least make 2 frame sizes instead of trying to get people to buy the wrong size.
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Old 11-04-13, 06:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
1) Surly and others can afford to build bicycles in the US and still turn a profit.
2) Surly and others should offer a lifetime warranty on their frames.
Step up their game? For what? The title doesn't make sense

Surly can afford to build in the US? Is that you saying that? What evidence do you have supporting that?

One company building a "one size fits all" domestically with a new product no one knows is any good isn't a test. Surly has a reputation for a quality product which is warranted. It comes in multiple sizes and colors too.
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Old 11-04-13, 08:03 AM   #20
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Well I, for one, am with Agent Pombero on this (pretty much)!

Props to Detroit Bike for doing it right and actually making-- which in a real American town like Detroit means welding sh*t together!-- the frames, painting them, and building them into bikes. That's where the real value is for me, especially in Detroit, where we so much need something we can proudly put that world famous "Made in Detroit" stamp on. Detroit Bikes rocks, and I'm excited to see where they go.

Regarding Surly, well, they're an easy target because of the counter-culture vibe they cultivated around a bike production model that was anything but. Having your frames made in Asia somewhere is mainstream, so Surly is perhaps unfairly singled out here, especially when you consider that it's a brand owned by the largest parts supplier in the world, QBP. Though I despise Surly for these reasons, I wouldn't call them out like they need to step up, because it's ridiculous to expect a zombie company to do something like that.

That said, I'd definitely like to see more national level brands be manufactured here in the USA. Yeah, I know there are plenty of small, custom houses doing their thing, which is great, but to see someone invest stateside in competitive, large scale manufacturing (of, by necessity, not too expensive bikes) would be great. Time will tell if Detroit Bikes proves to be the prototype, but certainly there are plenty of people who do care about where they spend their money, with whom, and about what they get for it. The locavore/farm-to-table thing is huge, and it isn't a stretch to extend those sentiments to bicycles if one doesn't have to spend $3.5k and 4.5 months on a custom bike in order to realize those priorities.
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Old 11-04-13, 08:12 AM   #21
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Well I, for one, am with Agent Pombero on this (pretty much)!

Props to Detroit Bike for doing it right and actually making-- which in a real American town like Detroit means welding sh*t together!-- the frames, painting them, and building them into bikes. That's where the real value is for me, especially in Detroit, where we so much need something we can proudly put that world famous "Made in Detroit" stamp on. Detroit Bikes rocks, and I'm excited to see where they go.
Yes, Detroit Bikes should get credit for making their bikes in the US. But the fact that they think you can fit all people to one size is the wrong way to do it. It doesn't take too much more effort to make model sizes to actually fit your riders. Other companies have made high quality bikes in the US in a range of sizes (there should be at least 4 sizes to cover the range they want to cover) and made a profit doing so. Make them right and people will buy your bikes. Detroit Bikes isn't making them right.
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Old 11-04-13, 08:36 AM   #22
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make good props for the next RoboCop movie
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Old 11-04-13, 08:48 AM   #23
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Chaadster, what's all this about Surly?

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Old 11-04-13, 09:04 AM   #24
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A heavy cruiser that comes in one size and color. You can get that for $100 at Wally World.
Also this is made in Detroit. They are probably loosing money on every bike sold.
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Old 11-04-13, 09:20 AM   #25
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people despise companies because it's uncool to be successful?
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