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  1. #1
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    New tyres = new tubes?

    Is it simply a marketing ploy or should you change your tubes when you fit new tyres?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Yes, it's a marketing ploy. No, you don't need to fit a new tube when fitting a new tire.

  3. #3
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    Nice. I'm just to the point where i need to change my gators so this is a money relief

  4. #4
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    You not only don't need to, if a bike shop person told me I should, I'd find a new shop. The only exception would be if I were changing from a really fat tire to a very skinny one, say from 37mm to 23. But I wouldn't do that anyway.

  5. #5
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    As long as the tubes feel soft and valve stem works then great, no matter the number of patches either. I've ridden a tube with as many as 13 patches and the tube was 5 years old and no problems until the valve fouled up. Tubes will last a long time, I have tubes in a mountain bike that are about 13 or 14 years old and their fine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    I've found a new tube is required when:
    a) You get a new leak next to an old patch, and it would require overlapping a patch. Didn't work when I tried that.
    b) The valve fails, or starts leaking at the base of the valve.

  7. #7
    Member lastostrogoth's Avatar
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    I never patch a tube on the road if I can help it, so I always have a bunch of tubes at home and carry two extras on a ride. I rarely buy new tubes, though I generally replace my tires every year to 18 months. I have found some damage to a tube to be very hard fix. Then and only then do I retire it and buy a new one.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    If you like your old tubes, under obamacare, you can keep them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Tubes don't wear out. I replace tubes when they get a 4th or an unpatchable hole. Otherwise, they move from tire to tire.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DEW21's Avatar
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    Thanks for this info from a relative newbie!
    2012 Giant Escape 2

  11. #11
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
    Tubes don't wear out.
    Yes they do. Rubber isn't permanent;it may take a long while,but inner tubes do eventually deteriorate.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  12. #12
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    The valves wear out. I patch them til the valves go out.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI

  13. #13
    Member lastostrogoth's Avatar
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    Roflmao!

  14. #14
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastostrogoth View Post
    I never patch a tube on the road if I can help it, so I always have a bunch of tubes at home and carry two extras on a ride. I rarely buy new tubes, though I generally replace my tires every year to 18 months. I have found some damage to a tube to be very hard fix. Then and only then do I retire it and buy a new one.
    I do it backwards from most people, I always attempt to patch the tube on the road and save the backup tube for when the tube can't be repaired. I can usually find a leak, patch it, and be riding just as fast, if not faster, as someone who replaces the tube anyways, so why bother replacing the tube is my thought. In addition to that I save time at the end of the ride because I don't have to find a leak and fix a hole when I get home.

  15. #15
    Member lastostrogoth's Avatar
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    The recommendation for using a patch kit is to roughen up the surface of the tube and put glue on the tube. They then recommend, I quote Lennard Zinn here, ten minutes to allow the glue to dry before putting the patch in place. Zinn also does not recommend using the glueless patches. I can replace a tube in far less time than it takes to find a hole in a tube, patch it, and reinstall it. But, to each his own. Whatever works for you. I did patch tubes for years on the road. Then I just started carry two spare tubes and fixing problems when I get home. I am retired. I have nothing but time.

  16. #16
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastostrogoth View Post
    The recommendation for using a patch kit is to roughen up the surface of the tube and put glue on the tube. They then recommend, I quote Lennard Zinn here, ten minutes to allow the glue to dry before putting the patch in place. Zinn also does not recommend using the glueless patches. I can replace a tube in far less time than it takes to find a hole in a tube, patch it, and reinstall it. But, to each his own. Whatever works for you. I did patch tubes for years on the road. Then I just started carry two spare tubes and fixing problems when I get home. I am retired. I have nothing but time.
    I can tell you never patched a tube! It only takes two at tops for the glue to dry not 10 minutes. I don't care what Zinn says, the right glueless patches work for the life of the tire. I know there are other people on this forum that have used them and have had the same experience that I've had...I have also read here those who didn't have good experiences. But guess what? Those with bad experiences either used the wrong glueless patches and/or screwed up somewhere in the preparation process. I have a friend who cursed glueless patches, then one day he had a flat while I was riding with him so I offered to fix is flat with a glueless patch and if it didn't work I would buy him a new tube. I showed him how to do it as I did it, and the patch held up, that was last spring, he was using that tube up until it got to cold for him to ride. Now he patches using glueless patches and he loves them now that he knows how to do it correctly.

    You have to be careful about what you read, Zinn and Brown for example, the so called guru's of cycling are right about a lot of things but on a very few things they do get it wrong.

  17. #17
    Senior Member SpeshulEd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
    Nice. I'm just to the point where i need to change my gators so this is a money relief
    You wore out your tires without ever needing to change a tube? I commend you! (and wish I had your luck)
    Hey guys, lets go play bikes!

    Strava

  18. #18
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    You wore out your tires without ever needing to change a tube? I commend you! (and wish I had your luck)
    I wish. New tubes would make the tyres 10 more expensive. Although i have just bought a pair of hardshells so im hoping for my thumbs sake that i never get a flat again.

  19. #19
    Member lastostrogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    I can tell you never patched a tube! It only takes two at tops for the glue to dry not 10 minutes. I don't care what Zinn says, the right glueless patches work for the life of the tire. I know there are other people on this forum that have used them and have had the same experience that I've had...I have also read here those who didn't have good experiences. But guess what? Those with bad experiences either used the wrong glueless patches and/or screwed up somewhere in the preparation process. I have a friend who cursed glueless patches, then one day he had a flat while I was riding with him so I offered to fix is flat with a glueless patch and if it didn't work I would buy him a new tube. I showed him how to do it as I did it, and the patch held up, that was last spring, he was using that tube up until it got to cold for him to ride. Now he patches using glueless patches and he loves them now that he knows how to do it correctly.

    You have to be careful about what you read, Zinn and Brown for example, the so called guru's of cycling are right about a lot of things but on a very few things they do get it wrong.
    I have probably repaired on the road and off far more tubes than you ever have. Your comment falls in the category of inane. I choose these days to simply change the tube when on the road. What you do is your business. My choices in no way devalue yours. There was simply no reason for your comment other than the simple need to be rude. As to Zinn, I would certainly take his word before yours. I have ridden for more than 50 years, raced, and toured. I do all of my own mechanics and have for many years. I consider Zinn a superb reference. I mentioned him because the purchase recently of my first carbon fiber bike necessitated learning some new skills for handling the new material and more modern components that came with it. My version of Barnetts doesn't have information on the newer stuff. Brown I am unfamiliar with.
    Rather than attempt to argue any of the points we both made, I will simply suggest that you consider that you are not an expert, and that there may be ways as valid as your own for solving problems on the road and off. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    In my experience, stick-on patches are unreliable. Tire patching cement will dry in under 2 minutes unless there has been an excess applied. I swap a tube rather than patch on the road, unless I get a second flat whereupon I use a stick-on which is replace at my leisure at a convenient future time. Zinn is awesome, but by his own reasonably frequent admission, not infallible.

  21. #21
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    I use glueless patches at my clinic because patching tubes is so random that if I used glue,the little tubes could dry up in the weeks/months between use. Also,I seem to recall someone from Park Tool(the brand I use) stating they wouldn't make glueless patches if they didn't work.

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  22. #22
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastostrogoth View Post
    I have probably repaired on the road and off far more tubes than you ever have. Your comment falls in the category of inane. I choose these days to simply change the tube when on the road. What you do is your business. My choices in no way devalue yours. There was simply no reason for your comment other than the simple need to be rude. As to Zinn, I would certainly take his word before yours. I have ridden for more than 50 years, raced, and toured. I do all of my own mechanics and have for many years. I consider Zinn a superb reference. I mentioned him because the purchase recently of my first carbon fiber bike necessitated learning some new skills for handling the new material and more modern components that came with it. My version of Barnetts doesn't have information on the newer stuff. Brown I am unfamiliar with.
    Rather than attempt to argue any of the points we both made, I will simply suggest that you consider that you are not an expert, and that there may be ways as valid as your own for solving problems on the road and off. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
    Look, I wasn't getting into a pissing match with you, just that your assertion that Zinn said 10 minutes for glue to dry so thus you took it as the gospel which sort of tells me you haven't done much if any patching because if you had you would have known it takes 2 minutes tops for the glue to dry so that the patch can be put on. Even Looigi (the quote under your's) said it takes under 2 minutes, so is he pissing on you to for disagreeing with Zinn?

    Tell you what, start a new post with a poll and ask readers to vote on how long it takes for glue to dry before they put a patch on, categorize it like 30 to 60 seconds, 1 to 2 minutes, 3 to 5 minutes, 5 to 10 minutes, and see where the graph ends when the poll is done, then decide if Zinn is still right.

    In the meantime study the internet and watch You Tube videos about how to patch a tube.

  23. #23
    Member lastostrogoth's Avatar
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    The point is not necessary. I had two flats on Monday's ride and repaired them when I got home. It was 25 out and my fingers were pretty wooden by the time I got the tube out of the tire. Like you, and probably most people, I usually wait a couple of minutes before applying the patch. Monday I tried it Zinn's way. It worked great. I was standing around in my kitchen listening to a book on tape, no rush, no hassle. I have had four flats this season in 2100 miles of riding. I suspect that may cover it for a while. It has been my experience that flats seem to come in waves. I have had years where I rode 5000 miles without a single flat. Really, the most important point I tried to make is that neither of us has the ultimate answer as to how to deal with a flat on the road. I would much prefer replacing the tube pumping it up and going to messing with glue and patches on the road. Monday was a rare event. I have never gotten two flats on the same ride before. However, I always carry two spare tubes. If you prefer to patch and go, more power to you. All I am saying is, it's an individual choice and preference. I certainly don't need to watch a video on patching a tube.

  24. #24
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastostrogoth View Post
    The point is not necessary. I had two flats on Monday's ride and repaired them when I got home. It was 25 out and my fingers were pretty wooden by the time I got the tube out of the tire. Like you, and probably most people, I usually wait a couple of minutes before applying the patch.
    Lucky for you it wasn't too much colder or you would not have gotten the glue out of the tube no matter how long you waited (unless you were willing to wait for warm weather). I learned that many years ago before I discovered Marathon tires. Haven't had to replace/fix a tube by the side of the road in the 16 years that I have been using Marathons.

    Anyone know how well glueless patches work in single digit (F) or colder temperatures?

  25. #25
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    I've only used the Slime brand glueless patch (small sample pack I received with a purchase once), and it worked fine on a 26" MTB tube, IIRC. I have been patching tubes since the 1970s, and learned using the vulcanizing cement method. It's what I'm comfortable with.

    Like lastostrogoth, my preference is to replace the tube while on the road, and to patch the damaged tube once at home. I do carry one spare tube plus a patch kit if the inevitable 2nd flat happens. This might occur once every year. I also wait longer than 2 minutes for the cement to dry - as I'm in no rush to patch tubes, normally.

    If I have to patch while on a ride, I probably don't wait as long as I would at home. It's human nature, I guess. PG

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