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Old 02-06-14, 06:03 PM   #26
JohnDThompson 
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Try comparing the price of bicycles to that golf clubs.
Or running shoes, for that matter. A good bicycle can last a lifetime; running shoes maybe a single season.
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Old 02-06-14, 06:12 PM   #27
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My first year and half was spent on a $200 Schwinn Hybrid. I put lots of miles on it, more miles on it than most people would. It still serves its purpose. I would rather ride my Roubiax. When I CX race I would rather use my Crux. Components on a Tri-cross I purchased for my son have not proven to be substantially better in quality than what was on the Schwinn. I do not need my nice bikes to ride and I do not need my cycling specific clothing, clipless pedals and shoes either. All of the above increase my enjoyment and comfort. They also enable to put on lots of miles. $1000 is not the min required to buy a usable entry level bike.
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Old 02-06-14, 07:04 PM   #28
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I think the only way to sell it is the "fun" angle. If that doesn't take, I'd let the issue drop.
That's part of what got me. He struck up the conversation and for the first while sounded very interested in cycling to lose weight and get in better shape. When he found out how many miles I rode, that I also had to watch what I ate, and how much bikes cost, he proceeded to more or less tell me I was nuts.

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$1500 is kind of high-end for an entry-level first bike, IMO. Show him some cheaper alternatives, he might accept 500 or 600 price tag.
The Ogre was just one of the bikes we discussed. He specified that he wanted something "nice" and he wanted "sturdy". Since I knew there was an Ogre at one of the LBSs I suggested it as one of the bikes he might want to look at. As I noted we also talked about some of the brand name hybrids more in the $500 and up range.

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You did give him the perfect excuse to not get into bike riding. It's what he was looking for. bk
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That said... to say that $1000 is needed for a "decent entry level bike" is as ridiculous a statement as saying $90 will get you a good bike.

http://bikesdirect.com

I challenge you to find a bike that costs over $450 that will do sufficiently "more" for 95% of all riders. We "cyclists" are as guilty of thinking we need "good stuff", as normal people are of thinking $100 is "good enough".

We look at bikes, and see we can come close to having the best the world has to offer. We don't do the same things with our homes/cars/jobs/furniture/etc.

A $400 bike will do EVERYTHING a $4000 bike will do (get you from here to there in comfort or in a hurry). Beyond the $400 mark, you're rationalizing your "wants", not your "needs".


I get it... If I dress well for a winter ride, I have more than $500 spent in clothing! But I am riding down the same road as the guy in workbooks and a Carhart jacket, who is just on his way to work.
I never told him that he needed a $1,000 bike to have a decent entry level ride. What I did was describe a few bikes that fit his criteria that were available in the area so he could go check them out. The Ogre was one of several with prices from $500 up to about $1,500. I'm with you on that you don't need a high end bike to ride. My "fancy" road bike is an $800 Bikes Direct Gran Premio which I considered my big splurge. The bike I rode before that and still use frequently is a 1993 Trek 700 I originally bought for $35 and have rebuilt with used, NOS, and bargain hunted parts.

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$1000 is not the min required to buy a usable entry level bike.
As stated above, I never said $1,000 was the minimum required to buy a usable entry level bike. It was my estimate for the cost of one of the bikes that fit his description and was available locally. My "good" road bike was well under $1,000.

I was more taken aback by the fact that he was almost hostile that I would suggest he "waste" $500 - $1,500 on a bicycle when that price range covers a large portion of the entry level to lower enthusiast level bikes available.
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Old 02-06-14, 07:09 PM   #29
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Next time ask how much a decent set of golf clubs go for. Then ask if you can use them for anything other than golfing.

Bicycles can be used for exercise and transportation.
Excavating.
Demolition.
Weed control.
Pest control.
Wood working.
Wind chimes.
Self defense.
Boundary markers.
Table legs.
Fence repair............
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Old 02-06-14, 07:12 PM   #30
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If he's just looking for fitness (and we know he's really not) running shoes are WAY more cost effective. Most people that dawdle around the lake on their bike aren't really exercising anyway, they're just not sitting on their couch.
True, but it's been my observation that most people use running shoes to mosey around the mall. Similarly, they're not really exercising, just not sitting on the couch.
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Old 02-06-14, 07:37 PM   #31
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...
The Ogre was just one of the bikes we discussed. He specified that he wanted something "nice" and he wanted "sturdy". Since I knew there was an Ogre at one of the LBSs I suggested it as one of the bikes he might want to look at. As I noted we also talked about some of the brand name hybrids more in the $500 and up range.
...
Good - it looked as if you told him that it would take $1000-$1500 minimum to get started and he balked at that. I'm glad you cleared that up
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Old 02-06-14, 07:38 PM   #32
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...When he found out how many miles I rode, that I also had to watch what I ate, and how much bikes cost, he proceeded to more or less tell me I was nuts.

I was more taken aback by the fact that he was almost hostile that I would suggest he "waste" $500 - $1,500 on a bicycle when that price range covers a large portion of the entry level to lower enthusiast level bikes available.
If it were me, I'd never mention cycling or weight reduction or fitness again to this guy. It's not his thing and having his wife and doctor hectoring him about it got his hackles up. He thought getting a bike would be a magic bullet and toodling around on it would get his wife off his back. You gave the real world view and he's not up for that.

Keep up your strength training - you'll need it to pall-bear his lard-butt in a decade or so.
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Old 02-06-14, 08:18 PM   #33
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Decades ago... I worked in a Men's store. Once after selling a man a very pricey Hart Schaffner Marx suit I put a white shirt inside the coat and selected a new Countess Mara tie... as a suggestion to go with the suit. The man saw the $50 price on the tie and asked how could I possibility justify that price. I replied: "I don't. But that's the price... we didn't bump the price up just for you. It's a nice tie."

I am not going to justify or rationalize the price of a bicycle. The prices are what they are.

Many Americans see bicycles as toys. And they see the bicycles most of us ride as pricey toys for over-grown boys (and girls). Why would any of us care what some people think?
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Old 02-06-14, 08:44 PM   #34
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Many Americans see bicycles as toys. And they see the bicycles most of us ride as pricey toys for over-grown boys (and girls).
I'd count myself in that group.
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Old 02-06-14, 08:48 PM   #35
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Back in the early 80's I commuted on a bike to the hospital where I worked. One day a doctor lost control of his car and ran over my parked bike while making a large hole in the building. The administrator told me to let him know how much it would cost to replace. I went to my bike store and got prices for the same bike (Univega Nuovo Sport), fenders, rack panniers, light and a few other things. I think it came to around $600. The administrator's response was "I wanted to buy you a bike, not a car!" You could actually buy a running car for $600 in those days.
We spend money on what is important to us.
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Old 02-06-14, 09:04 PM   #36
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Many Americans see bicycles as toys. And they see the bicycles most of us ride as pricey toys for over-grown boys (and girls). Why would any of us care what some people think?
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I'd count myself in that group.
I don't have any objection to that. But I guess I haven't really thought of myself as ether playing or athlete. My area seems to have bunches of joggers, walkers, and cyclists (I also walk and jog). I also do a little weight training now-a-days too. I am just trying to take care of myself... while doing stuff I enjoy doing. I might even play a little golf this summer.
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Old 02-06-14, 09:28 PM   #37
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But I guess I haven't really thought of myself as ether playing or athlete.
Occasionally I see riding as both playing and an athletic event. I got home from work early, hopped on the bike the same way I used to as a kid after school, and had fun. I felt exceptionally good and rode hard for part of it timing myself with intervals
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Old 02-07-14, 08:50 AM   #38
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Just as a counter story to the cheap Wallymart starter bike option. I had a coworker who wanted to start biking. Much like the OP I told him what the current average LBS price options were like. “No, no too much money” he said. He went to Wallymart and bought a bike. Long story short he went through three bikes in a couple of weeks. All had some sort of mechanical defects. Wallymart always took them back, but it basically discouraged him. Finally, I got him to listen to the “you get what you pay for” advice and he got a decent bike. I’m not saying you can’t get by with a bike from a big box store, but I wonder how many people get turned off from riding after an experience like that.
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Old 02-07-14, 09:06 AM   #39
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Keep up your strength training - you'll need it to pall-bear his lard-butt in a decade or so.
The guy I spoke of in my original post isn't a close friend. He is someone I know just enough to greet him by name in the coffee shop, that's about it. Sadly, a fair number of times in my job I end up carrying individuals who expired early due primarily to couch time and pathetic nutrition.

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Good - it looked as if you told him that it would take $1000-$1500 minimum to get started and he balked at that. I'm glad you cleared that up
When someone approaches me with an interest in getting into cycling, I try to find out just what aspect of cycling they are interested in. This individual is quite heavy, wanted a sturdy bike, and is no stranger to toys costing hundreds or thousands, so I took a guess at what he would be interested in and found out I was wrong. He wasn't even interested in new bikes at half that amount. My first real bike as an adult was a used 1990s Trek 800 that I outfitted with Bontrager H2 tires (commuter/hybrid) and rode the hell out of. My total investment was about $150 with new tires and a helmet. In other posts and in many conversations, I have recommended late 1980s - early 1990s cro-mo MTB and hybrids as solid fitness/commuter bikes for people looking to get into cycling on a budget.

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Many Americans see bicycles as toys. And they see the bicycles most of us ride as pricey toys for over-grown boys (and girls). Why would any of us care what some people think?
My bikes are many things to me; toys for recreation, fitness equipment, low cost transportation, and an outlet for my need to have something to tinker with.
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Old 02-07-14, 09:29 AM   #40
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Just as a counter story to the cheap Wallymart starter bike option. I had a coworker who wanted to start biking. Much like the OP I told him what the current average LBS price options were like. “No, no too much money” he said. He went to Wallymart and bought a bike. Long story short he went through three bikes in a couple of weeks. All had some sort of mechanical defects. Wallymart always took them back, but it basically discouraged him. Finally, I got him to listen to the “you get what you pay for” advice and he got a decent bike. I’m not saying you can’t get by with a bike from a big box store, but I wonder how many people get turned off from riding after an experience like that.
This is exactly what I try to help people avoid. In my late 20s I was already gaining quite a bit of weight and had a desk job, so my ex-wife and I decided to ride bike together. Not knowing any better we bought a pair of Huffy hybrids from the local hardware store. There was no sizing or fitting involved just his n hers red bikes with the seat set where the hardware guy thought looked "about right". Both of those bikes were constant problems, frequent unexplained flats, chains jumping, shifters that wouldn't shift correctly, and brakes that were mere suggestions that you were trying to slow down. Granted, a lot of these problems might have been improved by someone with some bike knowledge getting the bikes properly set up and adjusted, but at the time I knew nothing about bikes and just kept taking them back to the hardware store where we bought them. Within weeks we both lost interest. I don't think either bike had more than 100 miles on it. They sat in the garage over the winter and we sold them at a garage sale the next spring.

It was another 15+ years before I decided to try it again. This time I went to an LBS and spoke not just to a salesperson, but also to the shop manager who sold me a my Trek 800 that looked like it just came off the showroom floor. It was a little too small, but with the adjustments near max, it was OK. Once I found out that riding could actually be a pleasure I was hooked and have logged thousands of miles each year since. I started volunteering at a bike co-op and learned how to work on my own bikes, traded and upgraded several times and have a small collection of bikes now. That original Trek 800 is now my wife's bike (fits her perfectly) and still looks and works like new.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had skipped the hardware store Huffy and sought the services of an LBS 15 years sooner? Could I have avoided the health problems in my mid-40s? Skipped a couple of decades of waddling and wheezing? Who knows, but that big box bike experience did me a huge disservice.
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Old 02-07-14, 10:24 AM   #41
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Perceived value is often times misconstrued. I had the same sticker shock when I got into fly fishing. I couldn't imagine spending $600 for a fly rod. I thought a complete kit for $100 would be more than enough to do any sort of fishing. Well, I was wrong and I figured that out once I got into it and found out how the dollar value of various rods equated to quality. Same can be said for bicycles. You won't truly appreciate what your money gets you until you've gotten into it fully. That's when the real money gets spent. He could easily get a vintage mountain bike that would work for his weight for $100-200 dollars and it would be perfectly adequate. Once he sees results and wants more out of it than simply exercise, then he can get something more appropriate. Then he'll understand what the difference is between a Walmart bike and something that'll last longer than a seasons worth of riding.
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Old 02-08-14, 12:23 PM   #42
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I have a story that is similar, but different...

A friend of the family gave me an old Specialized Hardrock about five years ago--he apparently had won another bike in a raffle, and didn't need two bikes. The Hardrock sat in the garage until last September, when I decided to start riding. I replaced the knobby tires with street slicks, and slapped a rack on it, and now it's my commuter.

We visited them over the Holidays, and it turns out he's been having some health problems; he's had two hospital stays over the last year. And yes, he's somewhat overweight, and doesn't exercise at all. So I asked him whether he was riding at all, and he said no, because of how busy he was with work, and how he can't commute on the bike because of his daughter's school and after-care schedule, and how he can't ride on the weekends because of his other outside activities. And then he said, "I know I should start again, and that I'm probably just making excuses." So at least there's some hope that he finds the motivation to get back on the bike.
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Old 02-08-14, 04:17 PM   #43
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Quite a few people have been conditioned to think that bicycles are something you buy at Walmart for $100.
That is the only place most people ever see a price tag on a bike. Why go to a store that only sells x if Walmart sells everything?
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Old 02-08-14, 05:16 PM   #44
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Some people are just adverse to any form of exercise. It makes them uncomfortable. It is just too hard.

This morning I had a lady who asked if the trike I was riding was good exercise. I said yes, very good. Then she asked if I could add an electric motor to it. I asked why and explained the idea behind my riding is to get exercise. Why on the earth would I do anything that would make it less exercise?

If you really want to get a strange look tell someone what you paid for a decent recumbent. That's what I got from the guy smoking a cigarette who thought the trike looked like fun and asked what one cost. I should have said, "about the same as two years of a one-pack-a-day habit" but I thought better and told him the $ cost. Maybe you should have told him to check the price of a casket these days. It is even more than a good bike.
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Old 02-08-14, 07:03 PM   #45
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Then she asked if I could add an electric motor to it. I asked why and explained the idea behind my riding is to get exercise. Why on the earth would I do anything that would make it less exercise?
I have a friend who likes to ride but lives where it's very hilly. He uses his electric bike so he can ride for exercise on a route that is beyond what is comfortable for him. It also allows people of quite unequal abilities to ride together. While it's not something I'm considering now, I can seer all sorts of ways it could be useful.
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Old 02-08-14, 07:11 PM   #46
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I know this is a bicycling forum, so this isn't exactly PC; but... walking is probably a better activity for weight loss. What I'd do is encourage him to get some nice shoes and go for an hour walk 4 times a week. Along with that advice, give him a Performance Bike and/or Nashbar catalog. Who knows... he may lose weight and even come around on his attitude toward bikes.
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Old 02-08-14, 09:03 PM   #47
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Back in the 90's a neighbor asked what my Trek 1220 because he was looking for something to ride with his new girlfriend.

It went exactly as every one would predict,... "I can get one for $100 dollars"

And I told him the $100 dollar bikes were great to hang in the garage.

But to look at it by mileage.

I already had 2k on that bike, at best he'd put 100 miles on his bike, so mine was 1/2 the price of his.

He saw my point and bought 2 garage art bikes and no, they never will see 100 miles.
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Old 02-08-14, 10:45 PM   #48
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I bought an entry level road bike eleven months ago for $600. I have since been bitten by the cycling bug and have ridden it 3000+ miles. A few months after I bought my bike, I asked an avid cyclist friend what she had paid for her bike. "$4000," she told me, "but I got a great deal, it's normally a $5000 bike". I told her I was shocked, I could never pay that much for a bike.

And then last month I plunked down even more than she did on a new bike. Sometimes you can't conceive of it until you gain some knowledge & a little bit of experience.

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Old 02-08-14, 11:08 PM   #49
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I paid 1.00 for my car and it has needed very little.

Some of my favourite bikes have cost me as much as 50 to 100 times that amount and the most I have paid for a bike in the past 30 years was 600 times that of my car for my newest bike (a used 2006 Surly Pugsley).

It helps when you have mechanical skills to fix cars and bicycles and I might have spent $500.00 on my car in the last year and a half servicing things.

My latest bicycle cost me $7.00 for the frame and fork and I built it up with spare parts which included some handbuilt wheels of my own. It should last a good long time as it is simple and bombproof.



This is worth more than my car... and is my daily rider in nicer (non frozen) weather



For those without skills buying a decent bike quality from an LBS is a $400.00 - $500.00 proposition... my wife actually spent over $1000.00 on her Breezer after doing a lot of research and test riding and she wanted a bicycle she would not have to worry about (no mechanical skills) that was fully equipped with an IGH, fenders, and dyno lighting.

I occasionally sell used bicycles and look for nice examples of good quality and most of these sell pretty quickly for more than what you will, pay at x-mart.
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Old 02-09-14, 12:45 AM   #50
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Bikes: '88 Specialized Sirrus, '89 Alpine Monitor Pass, two '70 Raligh Twenties, '07 Schwinn Town & Country Trike, '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
I paid 1.00 for my car and it has needed very little.

Some of my favourite bikes have cost me as much as 50 to 100 times that amount and the most I have paid for a bike in the past 30 years was 600 times that of my car for my newest bike (a used 2006 Surly Pugsley).

It helps when you have mechanical skills to fix cars and bicycles and I might have spent $500.00 on my car in the last year and a half servicing things.

My latest bicycle cost me $7.00 for the frame and fork and I built it up with spare parts which included some handbuilt wheels of my own. It should last a good long time as it is simple and bombproof.



This is worth more than my car... and is my daily rider in nicer (non frozen) weather



For those without skills buying a decent bike quality from an LBS is a $400.00 - $500.00 proposition... my wife actually spent over $1000.00 on her Breezer after doing a lot of research and test riding and she wanted a bicycle she would not have to worry about (no mechanical skills) that was fully equipped with an IGH, fenders, and dyno lighting.

I occasionally sell used bicycles and look for nice examples of good quality and most of these sell pretty quickly for more than what you will, pay at x-mart.
Love that F-frame..
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