yote223

Bottom line; Whipped cream on a turd does not make a sundae.
I'll bet the LBS was thinking; "Don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining".

02Giant 

You make it sound as if he gave it to a courier on horseback. USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc. are all reliable delivery methods, once it leave the sellers hands, he can do nothing. Contact the seller, he may do enough shipping business that he receives a discount, he may send you a shipping tag to return the saddle.
Negative feedback...really? Initial tracking showed the item moving through the system, how in the world is it his issue after that?

Retro Grouch 

I agree with the OP.

I don't think the OP and this particular LBS are a good match. Find a different vendor and everybody is going be happier.

shelbyfv

Since you received the saddle you should pay for it. I've had the same thing happen with an overseas seller and that's what I did. As for the LBS, you bought an item they stock, for less online. Easy to see how they would be annoyed. If you were happy with them prior to this last encounter you might give them another chance. Then again, maybe they have decided you are a difficult customer and prefer you shop elsewhere.

WestPablo

The only innocent party in this whole business transaction scenario, is the original eBay saddle seller...

The LBS has backwards, idiotic, and vindictive business practices.

OP, you should have at least contacted the original saddle seller in order to discuss the matter of equitable compensation. You also made a mistake by offering the saddle "for sale" to the LBS as a possible solution for yourself (NOT anyone else), and NOT offering it back to the original eBay saddle seller.

MRT2

OK, late to the party here. OP seems to have a knack for blaming others for his own mistakes, and in the process, has damaged his working relationship with a LBS. Good riddance perhaps, but my view is, you never know when you might need them. But hey, a couple of bucks is a couple of bucks. When your bike develops a mechanical problem on the eve of a century, tour, or some other big biking event, don't expect your LBS to go the extra mile to fix your bike, perhaps put your job to the front of the queue or even stay late for you.

Maybe your bike shop owner is overly sensitive about customers using his showroom to test items out, or even to see them before buying on the internet. Look, we all find deals on the internet, and if you can buy an item off the internet and not involve your LBS, I see no problem with that. Or buy an item from another LBS. Hey, it happens. Some places might sell good bikes but not be competitive on accessories or apparel. But I wouldn't rub their noses in it either. And if I test rode a saddle at a LBS, I would buy it from them, even if it cost me a few bucks extra. To do otherwise just doesn't sit right, and I am a believer that what goes around comes around.

OP blames Ebay seller for using an "unreliable" shipping method. Bike shop owner for selling him a saddle he subsequently decided he didn't like after months of use and copping an attitude after OP not only bought something off the internet, but then rubbing the bike shop owner's nose in it.

The band analogy is flawed. If I hire a band for a special event, the use of the band's services are pretty time limited. If a saddle arrives a couple of weeks late, unless I was ordering the saddle for a particular ride (which BTW, would be a very bad idea), that saddle is perfectly usable in perpetuity. If it were me, I would just send back ebay seller's money as I now have the saddle I wanted, and find a use for it, like putting it on a backup bike, giving it to a friend, or selling it on Craigslist.

Robert P

See my response here

You're a seller - is the negative feedback worth $5 - what I estimate he would have made on the deal - or would you rather have a not pissed off customer who doesn't screw up your feedback rating which is exactly what he was on track for?

Only a fool would pick the former.

Where do you get this from? I paid him with every intention of using the seat, end of story. He didn't deliver in a timely manner. Had he done so none of this would be an issue. Or do you think I'm a soothsayer who knew I'd get a seat I now have no use for and doesn't have enough market value to make it worth even attempting to sell?

shelbyfv

Why would you threaten negative feedback for a shipping issue that was no way the fault of the seller? He did the right thing to refund your payment, now you should man up and pay for what you received.

rydabent

While I guess the LBS has a point about buying off e-bay or a cycling catalog company, but sometimes the local price is way out of line.

I wanted to change my gearing, and wanted the middle ring and the large ring for the BB. After pricing locally, I got BOTH rings for less than the price of one locally. Bottom line, while I like to support my LBSs, Im not going to pay more than double for some things. A little more would be ok, but not double.

Robert P

I didn't threaten him with anything. See my response below.

As far as fault, he's been selling for a while. He should be aware how the shipping method he's using goes. If it typically takes a lot longer than the clearly posted estimate he should address this.

Contacted him, said I was not happy about the delay. Before contacting him I'd waited 10 days from the last postal scan.

His first and only response was to issue a refund - I didn't demand one he just did so of his own volition. The seat arrived over a week after I'd already gotten the LBS seat. When it finally arrived I had no use for it. It's a paperweight. If the ebay seller hadn't refunded the money he'd have gotten negative feedback for what had to be a meager profit.

No that would have been faster.

Machka 

That's just being nasty and vindictive ... to give negative feedback for something that was not the seller's fault.

I know you think you're right and you just simply cannot see what the rest of us see, but you are knocking on the door of fraud by keeping the both the saddle and the money. You can remedy the situation by returning either the money or the saddle.

bruin11

What's your ebay name so I can put you on the do not sell to list.

Robert P

You've only reinforced my conviction that you're a somewhat sheltered individual.

That's exactly what the feedback system is for - to reflect one's satisfaction with a transaction. Apparently what you think the "right thing" to do is lie to be "nice".

One of the categories specifically addresses "How quickly did the seller ship the item?" Auction said 5 days. It took 3 weeks. You would have me say what about this? Anything less than 5 stars dings their stats. Ultimately I left that rating unanswered and was doing him a favor just by that. Had he not refunded the money at best the transaction deserved a neutral overall rating, which as I understand it impacts the seller just as much as a negative.

RPK79

In this case the seller is not out the profit for the saddle they are out the profit, the cost, and the shipping. All because USPS screwed up. It's like blaming a tire dealer for the flat you got after getting new tires on your car when you ran over a nail in the road on the street across town.

Tundra_Man 

"How quickly did the seller ship the item?" My interpretation of that rating question means "How fast did the seller get the item packaged and hand it over to the shipping agent." Once a seller hands a package to UPS, FedEx, USPS or Bob's Speedee Delivery they no longer have any control of the ship times.

That's just how I think about it any way.

Machka 

I'm hardly sheltered.


And I still think you're in the wrong here. I know you don't want to hear that. I know you started the thread in the hopes to get a chorus of agreement that the LBS was in the wrong.

Jeepseahawk sums it up nicely ...

+1

MRT2

I would like to hear the bike shop's version of the story.

Machka 

And the ebay seller.

danmc

I agree with just about everyone else that the OP is in the wrong. Asking the LBS to buy something from you that you got online is just nuts in my opinion!

My city has quite a few LBS and I bought my bike from one but live closer to another and I bring it in to the closer one for service. One of the techs joked about me buying it from one of their competitors but I told him that they had my size (I'm very tall) and it was on sale so hey, that's how it works. I wouldn't go in there though and bring up a problem with something I got from someone else, be it another LBS or online, and expect them to solve the problem for me.

himespau 

So now you have your money back and the saddle and the seller has neither. I don't get why you think he's only out $5 unless it was a really cheap saddle and got mailed in a letter envelope. I'm not even sure sellers put up shipping estimates (maybe they do, maybe e-bay does based on the method they choose and your zip code). I've had a lot of stuff not come in by the estimated date, but the dates are always what I would consider to be very optimistic and it usually comes within a day or two of that. At 3 weeks, I'd definitely be contacting them about a refund, but, if it showed up, you gotta contact the seller. Hopefully they'll send you a shipping label to send it back, but otherwise, the only ethical thing to do is send back the money and have a spare saddle, or spend the $5 to send the saddle back and keep the money. Or maybe, the seller will think it's not worth the hassle and tell you to keep both, but you've got to give him the option to make that call, and that'll depend on how much the saddle cost and what that's worth to him.

Machka 

+1

himespau 

That's how I've always read that question too. If they don't bother getting to the post office until the day it's supposed to arrive, I usually ding them. Otherwise, I generally think a couple of days is reasonable and gets full stars (which is most people most of the time). What gets me is the ones who generate a shipping label right away to get that fast shipping notice into ebay but the pickup on the tracking doesn't occur for 3-4 business days. Those folks get dinged because they're trying to game the system (though sometimes ebay won't let me because it sees a fast shipping entry in the system). If I don't have access to tracking, I leave it blank because I can't tell what's their fault and what's the shipper's fault. I see what the shipper is before I make my bid and choose whether or not to still bid, so, if the shipper can't get their act together, that's partially on me for accepting that method.

WestPablo

Fun Analogy:

A bicycle is insured against theft. The bicycle gets stolen. The insurance company sends a check to the insured for reimbursement, three months later. A few weeks after insurance reimbursement, the insured's bicycle is recovered by the police and returned undamaged.

What's the proper and ethical thing to do?

A) Keep both the recovered bike and the insurance money received

B) Return the money back to the insurance company

C) Send the recovered bike to the insurance company

D) Sue your bicycle insurance company and berate them for sending a late reimbursement check.

E) Sue the police department for failing to recover your stolen bicycle much sooner

F) Sue both the insurance company and the police department

G) Have breakfast at Denny's with Donald Sterling

There are only 2 possible correct answers embedded within these options.

Caution! This is an IQ test!

RPK79

I would take the bike to my LBS and see if they wanted to buy it from me at cost. If they refused I would then assume that any increase in service time was directly related to my proposal.

contango 

A and F, and then with the compensation you can do G?