Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-29-02, 02:38 PM   #1
cycletourist
opinionated SOB
Thread Starter
 
cycletourist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Branson, Missouri USA
Bikes:
Posts: 968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dirtbag Attorney

A lawyer in Springfield, MO is running a radio advert that says,

"If you get stopped for drunk driving... DO NOT submit to a roadside sobriety test. DO NOT submit to a breathelizer test. Call me immediately."

As a cyclist who has to share the road with motorists (drunk or not) this scares the chain grease out of me. I want all drunk drivers removed from the road permanantly! The last thing America needs is a dirtbag attorney who specializes in helping drunk drivers avoid punishment. If there is any justice in the universe this scumbag will get killed by a drunk driver (preferably one of his own customers).

Last edited by cycletourist; 05-29-02 at 02:50 PM.
cycletourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 02:50 PM   #2
Brains
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Greenwich, UK
Bikes:
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On the basis that US law is basically common English law, if you refuse or are unable to give a breath sample, the police have the right to take you in and either get a blood test and/or urine test. I can't imagine the law in the USA is that different.
Brains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 03:00 PM   #3
stumpjumper
Lagomorph Demonicus
 
stumpjumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 791
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, I thought that "right to an attorney" came after the arrest? besides, what are you going to tell the cop? Gee, officer, I'd rather not take the test, but there is a phone call I'd like to make If you can direct me to the nearest payphone??
stumpjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 03:19 PM   #4
Kevin S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA (Northwest suburbs)
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The bad news is that suspects can decline the breath test.

The good news is that in most (all?) states, that will cost you your license and they can still do a "field sobriety test" (walk a straight line, stand heels together look up and touch your nose, etc.) and use that to convict you.

Now if the juries would just catch up.

Kevin S.
Kevin S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 06:39 PM   #5
orguasch
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
very simple you give an attitude to a police officer, your looking at the asphalt road at a very close proximity to your face and a knee at your neck and hand cups bihind you back, and this is probably what the police are going to be doing to you , by the time they true with you, you either need a chiropractor, to help align your bones
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 06:54 PM   #6
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 16,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Get mad.
Join MADD.
Get active.
Save someone's life.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 10:23 PM   #7
cycletourist
opinionated SOB
Thread Starter
 
cycletourist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Branson, Missouri USA
Bikes:
Posts: 968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm really surprised this thread didn't draw a bigger reaction. Doesn't it bother anyone that an attorney would specialize in helping drunk drivers beat the law?
cycletourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 10:36 PM   #8
Dirtgrinder
Dances with Rocks
 
Dirtgrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Bikes:
Posts: 1,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cycletourist
I'm really surprised this thread didn't draw a bigger reaction. Doesn't it bother anyone that an attorney would specialize in helping drunk drivers beat the law?
I don't think it's that it doesn't bother anyone, it's just that it doesn't surprise anyone. More's the pity...
__________________
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough...

To become a registered member of BikeForums Click Here
Dirtgrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-02, 11:20 PM   #9
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cycletourist
I'm really surprised this thread didn't draw a bigger reaction. Doesn't it bother anyone that an attorney would specialize in helping drunk drivers beat the law?
The title of the thread says it all. What more needs to be said?
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 03:24 AM   #10
martin
Bash US - We'll Bash You
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First off I don't drink, much less drink and drive.

That attorney gives excellent advice. Although most states(perhaps all?) have laws on the book that your license will be revoked upon refusal of a breathalyzer and FST(field sobriety test), that means there is no real physical evidence against the alleged drunk. Can you say expunged record?

Of course the masses do not know any better and submit to a breathalyzer or FST, but, you can bet attorneys and politicians will never do so.

Remember that regardless of how much pressure MADD may put on legislators, the legislators still must follow the rule of law - or attempt to.

Of course we haven't even addressed the states that will arrest you and force you to submit to a blood test on suspicion. Can you say constitutional protections?

These revocation and forced submittal laws have yet to be tested to the Supreme Court and MADD prefers it that way I'm sure. Record expungement is the dirty little secret that keeps the revocation laws from being tested in a higher court.

Last edited by martin; 05-30-02 at 03:35 AM.
martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 05:52 AM   #11
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cycletourist
I'm really surprised this thread didn't draw a bigger reaction. Doesn't it bother anyone that an attorney would specialize in helping drunk drivers beat the law?
No Lawers have no principles. They scare me more than drunk drivers. Driving drunk or using a cell phone only increases your chance of an accident by a factor of 4. Lawers are much more dangerous than that.
Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 09:55 AM   #12
Rotifer
WallaWalla!
 
Rotifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are a number of problems with our criminal justice system. I think unethical lawyers balance the bad cops.
__________________
Jeff
Rotifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 10:36 AM   #13
Crazy Cyclist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't know if this is the same thing or not, I found it in the lastest Bicycling magazine. www.bicyclelawyer.com
Crazy Cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 10:42 AM   #14
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Rotifer
There are a number of problems with our criminal justice system. I think unethical lawyers balance the bad cops.
Wow! I don't buy that logic. Bad cops are bad maybe that means some folks won't get cought or do you mean some cops that manufacture evedance? Any way both are bad but I don't see them in opposite directions, at least not very often. But at least if a cop is caught what he is doing is illeagle. The lawyer is "just doing his job".

Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 10:43 AM   #15
threadend
Career Cyclist
 
threadend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Let's see, how's that go - "The trouble with lawyers is that 99% of them make the other 1% look bad"


How about BADD? - "Bicyclist against drunk drivers"
threadend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 10:48 AM   #16
Rotifer
WallaWalla!
 
Rotifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My man, I'll have to attach that link to my will!
__________________
Jeff
Rotifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-02, 10:50 AM   #17
oceanrider
Queen of the Pea Pile
 
oceanrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL on the beach
Bikes:
Posts: 395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here in Florida, a driver can stay seated in his car, close his window upon approach by an officer, slap his license up against the closed window and tell the officer he requests his lawyer. By the time the lawyer gets there, the alcohol blood level has a chance to settle down and the case begins to die. I'm hoping most drunks don't know this or they're too drunk to figure it out at the time. We had an accident out here around a year ago where a guy was walking on the sidewalk along the beach. A drunk driver ran him down. The side walk for God's sake. We do have our share down here and they are by far the biggest danger to cyclists and pedestrians alike. Then there was another drunk who ran down a woman and her infant child in the stroller as they walked along the Blue Heron Bridge. How terribly sad. That guy is thankfully behind bars for a long time.

Kathy
oceanrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-02, 03:41 PM   #18
roadie gal
Out the door
 
roadie gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northern California
Bikes:
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In California accepting a driver's license, which is a privilege not a right, means that you agree to submit to a blood alcohol test if asked. The BA can either be by breathalyzer or by a blood draw. If you refuse both, the police can do a forced blood draw. It's right there in the handbook you get when you apply for a license. Of course the drunk drivers conveniently forget that for the most part.
roadie gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-02, 04:49 AM   #19
orguasch
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hope I am not stepping on toes of members here that are Lawyers, but for us to have a better Earth, we should all get rid of Lawyers, they are pain in the butt, I hate them when they will try to make a fast buck, with out regards to their clients and anybody who want to know my personal reason inhating Lawyers and doctors, can email me and I will gladly answer them, I hate my Doctor, I hate my Lawyer, grrrrrrrrrrr
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-02, 01:46 PM   #20
martin
Bash US - We'll Bash You
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by roadie gal
In California accepting a driver's license, which is a privilege not a right, means that you agree to submit to a blood alcohol test if asked. The BA can either be by breathalyzer or by a blood draw. If you refuse both, the police can do a forced blood draw. It's right there in the handbook you get when you apply for a license. Of course the drunk drivers conveniently forget that for the most part.
Ah the old privilege vs. rights card. Yes, that became the PC thing to say during the Clintonista years. Perhaps someday people will get over their PCness and learn to think for themselves, instead of repeating what their fascist masters have put into their pea-sized brains over the past eight years.

Actually, driving is neither a privilege or a right in reality. Given the lack of public transportation in most areas of the US, driving is more of a requirement for many people due to their physical limitations or economic conditions.

As I mentioned previously, the forced blood draw issue has yet to be challenged to the Supreme Court. It will be interesting when that happens.

I'm all for putting drunk drivers out of commission for good since I do not drink alcohol or take drugs, and wasted drivers on the road are a menace.

More important, however, I do not like to see the government force bodily fluids out of citizens at the whim of some half-wit cop who may or may not have an axe to grind. The slippery slope is being descended here.
martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-02, 06:59 PM   #21
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by martin

s.

snip

I'm all for putting drunk drivers out of commission for good since I do not drink alcohol or take drugs, and wasted drivers on the road are a menace.

More important, however, I do not like to see the government force bodily fluids out of citizens at the whim of some half-wit cop who may or may not have an axe to grind. The slippery slope is being descended here.
Great post Martin
Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-02, 08:18 PM   #22
The Rob
Almost Immortal
 
The Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 2004 Trek 7500FX
Posts: 820
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know I'll be seen as naive by some, and I expect some responses decrying Orwellian doom, but since I don't abuse contraband substances I feel no fear at the prospect of being asked to render samples of my bodily fluids.

I feel that drivers' licenses should be viewed as privileges rather than rights. Judging from observations I've made of the way certain of my fellow cyclists pilot their machines, riding a bike should be seen in the same light.

Basically I hate any behavior that suggests that the driver, rider, or in fact pedestrian feels he/she is entitled to the whole of the road and is heedless to the safety of others.

-Rob (...and then there are those mouth-breathers on the bus! Don't get me started!...)
__________________
"Ignorance begets confidence more frequently than does knowledge." -Charles Darwin


http://blog.myspace.com/robcatg

http://therob.wordpress.com
The Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-02, 07:56 PM   #23
roadie gal
Out the door
 
roadie gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northern California
Bikes:
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
"Ah the old privilege vs. rights card. Yes, that became the PC thing to say during the Clintonista years. Perhaps someday people will get over their PCness and learn to think for themselves, instead of repeating what their fascist masters have put into their pea-sized brains over the past eight years. "
I resent the implication that I can't think because I agree with that sentiment. What I do think is that sometimes (SOMETIMES, not all of the time) maintaining the protection of many is more important that the "rights" of the few. In this case, getting a driver's license is entering into a contract with the state. If you don't want to ever have your blood drawn (or take a breathalyzer) then don't get a license. Get a job where you can walk to work, or live in an area where you can take the bus, etc. There are ways around driving if you feel that strongly about it.

I work in an ER. I've seen the carnage caused by drunk drivers. Stopping the ones out there is worth stepping on a few toes as far as I'm concerned.
roadie gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-02, 08:11 PM   #24
orguasch
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
roadie gal,
just think that you are more mature than this guys out there, I know how you feel, and i am very sorry for the response that you got
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-02, 08:41 PM   #25
Altwegg
Chick Magnet on wheels
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Republic of the Philippines
Bikes:
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think drunk drivers should be banned from driving for at least 5 years after their 1st offence. That should send a strong message. Drunk drivers ruin lives, period.
Altwegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:00 AM.