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-   -   Why is bicycling culture so snobby? (http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/961631-why-bicycling-culture-so-snobby.html)

Cyclosaurus 08-07-14 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 17014407)
Pondering this thread, I guess it comes down to the fact that the 2% of any group gives the whole group a bad name.

Wrong. The people who are judging are the ones giving the group a bad name. You've basically defined how racial/ethnic and other stereotypes are used to justify prejudice. Thanks for the rousing defense of bigotry though.

fietsbob 08-07-14 09:15 AM

So you buy $X,000 12 pound bikes ?

mcrow 08-07-14 09:54 AM

I think there are groups of snobs in bike culture in general. Some don't consider you a cyclists unless you ride a roadie in full kit. Some won't consider you a cyclist unless you race. Maybe you're not cool if you don't basically live on a bike and lounge in bike shops...ect.

There are all sorts of stupid ideas about what makes one a cyclist, including the brand, type and price of bike you ride.

I just avoid those folks and associate with those that simply love bikes and love riding them be it a wally world bike or a $10k bike, whether they race or just like to coast around town for fun or ride to work. The only thing that really matters is that they love riding.

Personally, I think people who put together frankenstein bikes are awesome and I don't really care what people are wearing.

Here in the Twin Cities we have a lot of bike snobbery but also a lot of plain old good bike folk, as I call them. Some shops are more snobby than others, but I can role in to Freewheel and they are awesome to everyone. I've seen people ride in on $90 Walmart bikes and they get the same treatment as someone who bought a $1200 Trek from them. They are really all about loving bikes, at whatever access point or preference you have.

the sci guy 08-07-14 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclosaurus (Post 17014582)
Wrong. The people who are judging are the ones giving the group a bad name. You've basically defined how racial/ethnic and other stereotypes are used to justify prejudice. Thanks for the rousing defense of bigotry though.

But stereotypes exist because it represents a large portion of said group - otherwise the few would just be written off as weirdos. Does it apply to everyone in the group? No. Also, applying stereotypes is not necessarily judgmental. Negative stereotypes exist because a group has, and continues, to act in a negative way. It's being observant and applying a label. So, in the end, if the people who are being stereotyped stop behaving in the stereotyped way, the stereotype disappears.

Just like my stereotype. It was an Aiwa.

And about bike snobs - they most definitely exist. They're the ones who roll up and blow past you without announcing at twice your speed. Or they cut it super close going between you and oncoming walkers/bikers/traffic because they just couldn't wait behind you for that extra 3 seconds. They're the ones who blow through the traffic lights and annoy drivers. They're the ones who treat every ride like it's a race. And I'd say there are far more snobs in the roadie group, than the MTB group (probably mostly due to the type of people who gravitate towards each). I think it's the same self-ego-self-entitlement that comes with buying a high-end sports car. You suddenly drive like a complete ass all the time; zipping between cars and lanes and gunning it off the line. Because you have an expensive, powerful car, common sense and acknowledgement of other humans just goes out the window. Just everyone get out of my way! Same thing goes for the same type of cyclists.

Keith99 08-07-14 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don in Austin (Post 17014398)
I wear levi shorts, a pink cotton t-shirt and push platform pedals with steel-toe work boots on my road bike that isn't strictly that because it has flat bars and MTB drivetrain. Last night, as every Wednesday night, I went on a group ride with 100% riders in standard road clothing and riding full road bikes. Great ride, friendly company and 100% friendly vibes when we stopped for our meal towards the end of the ride.

Snobbery is there if you look for it and are sensitive to it. Camradery is equally available.

Don in Austin

The club I used to ride with had rides ranging from 25 miles to 100 just about every Saturday and Sunday, at least during the summer.

Route slips color coded.

Those looking for snobbery would find it if someone equipped like you picked up one of the slips for the century and someone else asked if they knew what they were getting into.

Heck I'd have asked someone setup that way twice for some shorter rides because decades later I still vividly remember a MTB racer who got dropped on a false flat going downhill because he simply ran out of gears.

Come to think of it 90% plus of the riders in the club used some kind of setup to allow a route slip to be attached to their handlebars. Those really looking for snobbery would find it in someone trying to explain to a unknown rider how to do that setup.

BlazingPedals 08-07-14 02:06 PM

Gasp! We've been drive-by trolled, and all because one of you guys didn't wave at him! How could you be so heartless and unsociable??? :lol:

mcrow 08-07-14 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sci guy (Post 17015519)
But stereotypes exist because it represents a large portion of said group - otherwise the few would just be written off as weirdos. Does it apply to everyone in the group? No. Also, applying stereotypes is not necessarily judgmental. Negative stereotypes exist because a group has, and continues, to act in a negative way. It's being observant and applying a label. So, in the end, if the people who are being stereotyped stop behaving in the stereotyped way, the stereotype disappears.

Just like my stereotype. It was an Aiwa.

And about bike snobs - they most definitely exist. They're the ones who roll up and blow past you without announcing at twice your speed. Or they cut it super close going between you and oncoming walkers/bikers/traffic because they just couldn't wait behind you for that extra 3 seconds. They're the ones who blow through the traffic lights and annoy drivers. They're the ones who treat every ride like it's a race. And I'd say there are far more snobs in the roadie group, than the MTB group (probably mostly due to the type of people who gravitate towards each). I think it's the same self-ego-self-entitlement that comes with buying a high-end sports car. You suddenly drive like a complete ass all the time; zipping between cars and lanes and gunning it off the line. Because you have an expensive, powerful car, common sense and acknowledgement of other humans just goes out the window. Just everyone get out of my way! Same thing goes for the same type of cyclists.

I think you're right about the MTB crew VS roadie crew.

MTB people seem much more open and accepting of people and more in it for the fun where as more (but certainly not all or even the majority) of roadies seem to have a competitive snobby streak in them.

Fastfingaz 08-07-14 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrow (Post 17015906)
I think you're right about the MTB crew VS roadie crew.

MTB people seem much more open and accepting of people and more in it for the fun where as more (but certainly not all or even the majority) of roadies seem to have a competitive snobby streak in them.

,,,, I really don't understand how one can change personality just because they're on a particular bike , few years back I used to compete in tri and duatholons all this was on a road bike and all decked out and clipped in but in that same time I also had a mountain bike and a couple of cruisers, of course when on mountain bike I used baggie bike shorts and when cruiseing just jeans or what ever, but the point is i'm still the same person with manners and cordialities, I've always been friendly no matter what bike I was on,,,whats up??

mcrow 08-07-14 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastfingaz (Post 17016106)
,,,, I really don't understand how one can change personality just because they're on a particular bike , few years back I used to compete in tri and duatholons all this was on a road bike and all decked out and clipped in but in that same time I also had a mountain bike and a couple of cruisers, of course when on mountain bike I used baggie bike shorts and when cruiseing just jeans or what ever, but the point is i'm still the same person with manners and cordialities, I've always been friendly no matter what bike I was on,,,whats up??

Like I said, it doesn't mean that all or even most Roadies are like that and I think it's a lot more likely for the ones that are hardcore roadies who more or less almost exclussively ride road bikes. I don't notice as much in people who ride just about any kind of bike they get their hands on. Like I said, I'm speaking of a small portion of the roadie community. I'm not painting roadies as a whole as snobs but it is more of a problem (in my experience) in the roadie crew than the MTB or general rec/fitness types.

I've actually seen multiple times where someone in a public group ride looked down on another roadie for not having a serious race style bike. I'm not talking about someone showing up to a roadie ride on a MTB, but someone showing up with a lower end road bike (perfectly good enough for a rec group ride). This is the sort of thing that irritates me about a small number of roadies. If someone isn't rolling around on a $1500+ race bike they are not worthy of riding with them. Funny thing is sometimes I see these guys struggling to keep up with people riding an entry level bike.

It's small number of people relative to the whole but there are enough of them out there to irritate a lot of people.

caloso 08-07-14 05:45 PM

Maybe this equipment snobbishness happens on 15mph rides to the coffee shop. But in my experience the harder the ride the less anyone cares what bike you show up on. The question is whether you can ride it. If you can, great. If not, you'll get dropped.

chasm54 08-08-14 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 17016259)
Maybe this equipment snobbishness happens on 15mph rides to the coffee shop. But in my experience the harder the ride the less anyone cares what bike you show up on. The question is whether you can ride it. If you can, great. If not, you'll get dropped.

Yeah, but that's snobbery, see? The group going out for a training ride really ought to ride at ten mph if someone shows up who just wants a cafe ride. Otherwise, they're just confirming the fact that roadies are elitist unsociable b*stards.

Fishmonger 08-08-14 01:36 AM

I did a cyclocross race with a MTB. I placed dead last. But even though it was obvious that I was a noobie, everyone was fine with my annoyingly slow pace and non-conformity. It was a great experience.

Leebo 08-08-14 08:22 AM

No snobbery on my mt bike rides. Ya'll need to come over to the dirt. We welcome everyone with 2 wheels and some pedals. ( One wheel too sometimes) On some rides there are beater singlespeeds, $ 6,000 carbon rides, older 26ers, hardtails, 29ers and everything in between. Just pedal and keep up, If you don't keep up ,we will wait for you. Or form another group at a slower pace. Besides, everyone knows that mt bikers are better riders with mad skills :)

Cyclosaurus 08-08-14 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sci guy (Post 17015519)
But stereotypes exist because it represents a large portion of said group - otherwise the few would just be written off as weirdos. Does it apply to everyone in the group? No. Also, applying stereotypes is not necessarily judgmental. Negative stereotypes exist because a group has, and continues, to act in a negative way. It's being observant and applying a label. So, in the end, if the people who are being stereotyped stop behaving in the stereotyped way, the stereotype disappears.

If this was written about any ethnic group, this would be so unbelievably racist that I can only hope you wouldn't dare say it. Do you see how bigoted it is? And that fact doesn't change because you are applying it to a group of cyclists who don't look/dress like or have the same equipment as you.

Anecdotes about this roadie or that roadie are not evidence of anything except perhaps confirmation bias on the part of the person supplying the anecdote.

Fastfingaz 08-08-14 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasm54 (Post 17017114)
Yeah, but that's snobbery, see? The group going out for a training ride really ought to ride at ten mph if someone shows up who just wants a cafe ride. Otherwise, they're just confirming the fact that roadies are elitist unsociable b*stards.

,,,,,, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one Chasm,In my area there are different cycling groups with different levels there is one that on Saturdays, they cycle around this lake all paved streets early in the morning, you got to be able to reach the 20's or you will be left , now everybody knows this,, so if someone goes there expecting a café ride as you put it they'll be doing it by themselves,,,,

rydabent 08-09-14 07:37 AM

cyclo

Wrong, it is not the people "judging", people are reacting to how they are treated by the 2%. Personally I try to be friendly to everyone on a bike, from a 4 year old to a fully kitted roadie. If some people want to be snobs because I dont ride, dress, have the same bike, and the same kit as they have, that is their problem, not mine.

Example 3 or 4 years ago there were a bunch of fully kitted roadies that were on the MUP and wanting to head out of town to the hiway. I rode up on my recumbent and heard them trying to figure out if the MUP would take them to the hiway. I offered to give them directions, but they basically ignored me, and took off on the wrong direction. They would find that they were hemmed in by a big drainage ditch, and would have to come back to where they were. That was their cost of their snobbery toward a bent rider. I just smiled.

chasm54 08-09-14 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastfingaz (Post 17019301)
,,,,,, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one Chasm,In my area there are different cycling groups with different levels there is one that on Saturdays, they cycle around this lake all paved streets early in the morning, you got to be able to reach the 20's or you will be left , now everybody knows this,, so if someone goes there expecting a café ride as you put it they'll be doing it by themselves,,,,

Apparently you're a stranger to sarcasm.

Cyclosaurus 08-09-14 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 17020427)
cyclo
Wrong, it is not the people "judging", people are reacting to how they are treated by the 2%. Personally I try to be friendly to everyone on a bike, from a 4 year old to a fully kitted roadie. If some people want to be snobs because I dont ride, dress, have the same bike, and the same kit as they have, that is their problem, not mine.

It is bigotry if you want to apply a label to the group as a whole because of the actions of a tiny percentage. You simply don't get to malign a whole group because you don't like them, even though the vast majority do not share the characteristics you claim justifies the stereotype. Again, if we were talking about an ethnic group you would sound like an incorrigible racist. It doesn't make your opinions any less ignorant that you point your hatred toward a group that it happens to be socially acceptable to malign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 17020427)
Example 3 or 4 years ago there were a bunch of fully kitted roadies that were on the MUP and wanting to head out of town to the hiway. I rode up on my recumbent and heard them trying to figure out if the MUP would take them to the hiway. I offered to give them directions, but they basically ignored me, and took off on the wrong direction. They would find that they were hemmed in by a big drainage ditch, and would have to come back to where they were. That was their cost of their snobbery toward a bent rider. I just smiled.

Anecdote about specific individuals. No evidence that this can or should be applied to the group as a whole.

If you met a few recumbent riders that were complete jerks, you wouldn't suddenly announce that 'bent folks have a "problem" in their community. You would only hold their actions against them as individuals, because it's *your* group. But when you encounter a roadie, who is part of the *other* group, your retrograde, tribal instincts guide you to judge all roadies together. It's a symptom of ignorant and primitive thinking, nothing more.

I have met a couple of annoying recumbent riders. By your logic, I can legitimately declare that recumbent riders are obnoxious jerks, and there must be something about 'bents that makes them that way. Hell, based on you, I guess I can say that the 'bent community has a real problem with nutty carbon fiber Trutherism conspiracy theory nonsense.

RaleighSport 08-09-14 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 17020427)
cyclo

Wrong, it is not the people "judging", people are reacting to how they are treated by the 2%. Personally I try to be friendly to everyone on a bike, from a 4 year old to a fully kitted roadie. If some people want to be snobs because I dont ride, dress, have the same bike, and the same kit as they have, that is their problem, not mine.

Example 3 or 4 years ago there were a bunch of fully kitted roadies that were on the MUP and wanting to head out of town to the hiway. I rode up on my recumbent and heard them trying to figure out if the MUP would take them to the hiway. I offered to give them directions, but they basically ignored me, and took off on the wrong direction. They would find that they were hemmed in by a big drainage ditch, and would have to come back to where they were. That was their cost of their snobbery toward a bent rider. I just smiled.

They do that to their own kind too! Had a similar experience where I came across a gaggle of roadies on the warmup phase of my ride one day, four of them off the side of the bike lane, one very nice CF wonderbike flipped onto the hoods and saddle with a flat tire as I was less then 1/4 mile from my house I stopped to make sure everything was alright.. it was obvious the guys didn't have tire levers with them or know how to patch a tube I offered to let them use my saddlebag kit and was promptly ignored.. until the rider with the actual breakdown noticed someone was trying to offer him help, his friend insisted he would fix it for him and then they would figure out what route to take to Lake Sonoma (A very popular turn around destination for rides here) I had already given up on helping the broken down gentlemen get on the road faster.. but I felt it was my duty to inform them they were riding in the opposite direction from where they wanted to go, I was informed that I was a misinformed loser and blown off... just to give you reference I was on one of my few more modern bikes, in full spandex yada yada yada.. some people are just ****** who can't accept help. I was steamed for a whole five minutes.. about the amount of time it took to get my mind fully back into my own ride.

Jseis 08-09-14 10:51 AM

The OP's premise is bs. Bike culture is vast, diverse, evolutionary, and always morphing. To say the entire culture is snobby is hilarious. Sure there's a self-centered self righteous sub group within bike culture as there is within any group. They are a minority of a minority. I see say a thousand cyclists a year on the roads and trails where I live. Out of that I can count on one hand those that might be snobs. Now the red light running, side by side riding, lane swerving, salmon swimming, midnight-lightless, camo wearing, lane splitting, traffic challenged clueless asshats...that's an entirely different problem. Darwin will take care of them though not without collateral damage.

rydabent 08-09-14 05:17 PM

But it remains that like with almost any group, there is that 2% that give the whole group a bad name. This is not bigotry or anything like it. It is just a fact of life, and we all need to ignore the a******s of any group. Dont let them bother you. I for instance ride my trike or bent with a helmet, at the speed and cadence that feels right to me. I am very happy doing that, and I will stop and help anyone that accepts my help. If a snob wants to push his bike and ruin his flat tire rather than let me help him fix it because I am a bent rider, thats his choice, why should I get angry and let it ruin my day?

mcrow 08-09-14 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jseis (Post 17020786)
The OP's premise is bs. Bike culture is vast, diverse, evolutionary, and always morphing. To say the entire culture is snobby is hilarious. Sure there's a self-centered self righteous sub group within bike culture as there is within any group. They are a minority of a minority. I see say a thousand cyclists a year on the roads and trails where I live. Out of that I can count on one hand those that might be snobs. Now the red light running, side by side riding, lane swerving, salmon swimming, midnight-lightless, camo wearing, lane splitting, traffic challenged clueless asshats...that's an entirely different problem. Darwin will take care of them though not without collateral damage.

I can say I get many more thumbs up and smiles when crossing paths with obviously faster, more well equipped cyclists who are in a lot better shape. I think there are more people that think it's cool to see you out there trying to get better and loving cycling than there are on the opposite side. However, I think when you get a snotty look or comment it has a bigger impact on you than a wave and a smile.

Cyclosaurus 08-09-14 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 17021530)
But it remains that like with almost any group, there is that 2% that give the whole group a bad name. This is not bigotry or anything like it. It is just a fact of life, and we all need to ignore the a******s of any group. Dont let them bother you. I for instance ride my trike or bent with a helmet, at the speed and cadence that feels right to me. I am very happy doing that, and I will stop and help anyone that accepts my help. If a snob wants to push his bike and ruin his flat tire rather than let me help him fix it because I am a bent rider, thats his choice, why should I get angry and let it ruin my day?

It isn't that any percent of a group "that give the whole group a bad name". It's bigots such as you who decide to give the group a bad name because they would rather judge the group as a whole rather than as individuals. They/you judge members of their own groups as individuals, but when it's someone they don't identify with, out comes the "tsk tsk now look what you made me do, I have to tar everyone who looks like you with the same brush". You can keep claiming this is an intellectually and morally sound position, that it's the fault of that proverbial 2% that causes you to have to stereotype a entire class of individuals, but it's nonsense. The choice is entirely yours to act in the same line of reasoning as racists, misogynists, homophobes, or whatever other prejudicial creeps you would like to mimic.

Your repetition of the same point about those bad bad people that make you generalize about all roadies only proves how ingrained your irrational, evidence-free prejudice is.

Cyclosaurus 08-09-14 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrow (Post 17021980)
I can say I get many more thumbs up and smiles when crossing paths with obviously faster, more well equipped cyclists who are in a lot better shape. I think there are more people that think it's cool to see you out there trying to get better and loving cycling than there are on the opposite side. However, I think when you get a snotty look or comment it has a bigger impact on you than a wave and a smile.

+1

Very true. This is a well understood phenomenon: confirmation bias. People looking to judge roadies will ignore evidence contrary to their preconceived idea (neutral or friendly roadies), and give exaggerated weight to those experiences which confirm their idea (unfriendly roadies). This is why no amount of anecdotes about this or that naughty roadie should really lend any credence to a generalization about roadies. You're only hearing the evidence that supports the bias.

People who provide anecdotes and then generalize about a whole group of people should be mocked for their unscientific, medieval, irrational, racist-like thinking.

JanMM 08-10-14 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrow (Post 17021980)
I can say I get many more thumbs up and smiles when crossing paths with obviously faster, more well equipped cyclists who are in a lot better shape. I think there are more people that think it's cool to see you out there trying to get better and loving cycling than there are on the opposite side. However, I think when you get a snotty look or comment it has a bigger impact on you than a wave and a smile.

Wait! I'm confused..........is this thread built around snotty or snobby? :eek:


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