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Old 08-10-14, 08:09 AM   #151
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+1

As I indicated before ... methinks this was a "hit and run" trolling thread.

The OP has created one of the best troll threads of 2004. It just keeps going and going and going!!


You all do realise that the OP has not been back since he last posted about 2 weeks ago???
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Old 08-10-14, 11:26 AM   #152
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Wait! I'm confused..........is this thread built around snotty or snobby?
They one can result from the other.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:33 AM   #153
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I’m on a bunch of forums and it’s funny how charge of snobbery comes up on all of them. As a society we seem to be obsessed with it. Or maybe it’s the same troll


The pop musicians think keyboard players are snobby. The classical bunch think the violinists are snobby.

Fender guitar players think anyone playing an expensive plank that is not a Fender is a snob. The rockers think the jazzers are snobby and everyone thinks the classical crowd is snobby.

And then there are the wine forums! You can't even join unless you can prove you're a wine snob. Thank heaven there are no forums for bottled water. (Are there?)


From the very serious discussion here I gather that:
Snobs are found among the roadies, or down the road from them
Mountain bikers are hot shots, you can’t be a snob in cargo shorts with mud up your legs
Hybrids? Bunch of yuppie snob wannabes
And commuters aren't snobby, they’re sooty!

Last edited by bargeon; 08-11-14 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 08-11-14, 08:14 AM   #154
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I have not found that to be true. I have found cyclist to be mostly happy and friendly people. I belong to a "meet up" group called Butts On Bikes centered in Chino Hills CA. They are warm and friendly and very welcoming to new riders who join them. I have cycled for over 30 years and never had the impression that you seem to have.
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Old 08-11-14, 09:13 AM   #155
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+1

Very true. This is a well understood phenomenon: confirmation bias. People looking to judge roadies will ignore evidence contrary to their preconceived idea (neutral or friendly roadies), and give exaggerated weight to those experiences which confirm their idea (unfriendly roadies).
+2. However a person judges a group, tells the world much more about that person than they realize. Those who want to see a group of rude snobs will see it, and those of us who want to see a diverse group that includes cool people from every possible riding discipline will see it.
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Old 08-11-14, 09:43 AM   #156
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I'm fairly new here and relatively new to bicycling in general. My girlfriend and I got into it about a year and a half ago here in Seattle for transportation/recreation purposes --- no serious racing or other competition. I've been into many "scenes", be it cars, or motorcycles, or bouldering, but man, I have NEVER --- EVER --- encountered the level of pretentious, exclusionary, and downright snobby behavior that bicyclist as a group exude. Of course, I have to temper this with the clear fact that not EVERY person who deems themselves a "cyclist" is like that, but by and large it seems to be the case. Maybe it's because I have been lurking on the fixie/single speed forums lately and from what I gather fixie culture is comprised of younger more brash clientele that they get a healthy dose of haterade; they seem to be bicycling culture's motorcycle equivalent of squids.
Honestly, I'm not sure that I'd even consider the "fixie" crowd, cyclists. Not in a pure sense, at least. Sure, there is overlap but there are generally two distinct groups in question. 1. actual cyclists that own a fixed-gear bike in addition to other bikes and 2. urban hipsters who just happen to ride bikes as part of their hipster image. I'm not sure to what extent you are confusing the two.

A different take... I lived in Seattle for seven years. I have lots of complaints about the culture there but cycling is not one of them. It was living in Seattle that inspired me to go out and buy a bike (a $200 used hybrid that was a few years old and retailed at $600... not an expensive bike). I was inspired by seeing the large volume of bicycle-commuters as well as by people just riding for health and recreation. If it wasn't for my time in Seattle, I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't own multiple bikes now. Seattle and its bike friendly culture taught me that a bike isn't just a toy for children. It introduced me to my favorite adult hobby/passion. I'm grateful for that. I never had an experience even remotely like yours while living there, it was the complete opposite (although I can't say the same for other scenes around Seattle, the snobbery thing seems to be a general problem there across the board and not reduced to cycling, but again, I never experience it there as a cyclist). Sounds like you spend too much time reading what idiots say on the internet, get out and ride, there are some great people on bikes in Seattle. You won't find too many of the good ones wasting time on a forum.
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Old 08-11-14, 10:14 AM   #157
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cyclo

You bandy the word bigot around a lot. In fact you get around to calling me a bigot just because I treat others as they treat me. If others refuse my help as I have pointed out, and then I report this to others, that DOES NOT make me a bigot. Actually when you ponder this, you calling me a bigot probably make yourself one.
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Old 08-11-14, 10:28 AM   #158
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cyclo

You bandy the word bigot around a lot. In fact you get around to calling me a bigot just because I treat others as they treat me. If others refuse my help as I have pointed out, and then I report this to others, that DOES NOT make me a bigot. Actually when you ponder this, you calling me a bigot probably make yourself one.
You are blind to your own prejudice so of course you feel unjustly accused. It's not about treating others as they treat you, it's about whether you choose to embrace ignorance and make up generalizations that are untethered from any actual evidence, then try and spread those around to others so that they too can be prejudiced against another group without reason. You are like the carrier for a virus of irrational thinking. I'm pointing out that it is a form of bigotry so that that others can recognize it for being something that foolish ignoramuses cling to, and hopefully avoid getting infected. I've lost hope of a cure for people in advanced stages such as you though.
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Old 08-11-14, 10:48 AM   #159
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You are blind to your own prejudice so of course you feel unjustly accused. It's not about treating others as they treat you, it's about whether you choose to embrace ignorance and make up generalizations that are untethered from any actual evidence, then try and spread those around to others so that they too can be prejudiced against another group without reason. You are like the carrier for a virus of irrational thinking. I'm pointing out that it is a form of bigotry so that that others can recognize it for being something that foolish ignoramuses cling to, and hopefully avoid getting infected. I've lost hope of a cure for people in advanced stages such as you though.
With all respect, slow the roll on this bigotry racism garbage. For God's sake.
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Old 08-11-14, 12:56 PM   #160
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I have to admit, when I was in my early 20's, as a MTB rider I hated the road guys in the LBS. This was before the internet and back in the early 90's. The road guys always seemed to be stuck up and wore those fruity clothes. They seemed to toss around money and acted like nobody else was in the store unless you were another road guy. That was just my perception then. A few years ago, I started riding road bikes. My perception has changed, possibly because I am one of those stuck up old guys now. It seems like the vast majority of those that I ride with are married with kids. They are more advanced in their careers. I no longer have time to sit around after a ride. I am simply more harried in my life.
I also wear those fruity clothes, but only to an extent, so maybe I have simply crossed lines. Yikes.
Oh, how I miss the old MTB days.
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Old 08-11-14, 01:47 PM   #161
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I have to admit, when I was in my early 20's, as a MTB rider I hated the road guys in the LBS. This was before the internet and back in the early 90's. The road guys always seemed to be stuck up and wore those fruity clothes. They seemed to toss around money and acted like nobody else was in the store unless you were another road guy. That was just my perception then. A few years ago, I started riding road bikes. My perception has changed, possibly because I am one of those stuck up old guys now. It seems like the vast majority of those that I ride with are married with kids. They are more advanced in their careers. I no longer have time to sit around after a ride. I am simply more harried in my life.
I also wear those fruity clothes, but only to an extent, so maybe I have simply crossed lines. Yikes.
Oh, how I miss the old MTB days.
I used to love riding MTB, but I have a couple of problems:

#1- I don't know how to take it easy, I have to go balls to the walls all the time so I tended to take some pretty good tumbles.

#2- When I was younger, I could bounce back up and go but now it requires a week of recovery...lol.
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Old 08-11-14, 05:44 PM   #162
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The OP has created one of the best troll threads of 2004. It just keeps going and going and going!!


You all do realise that the OP has not been back since he last posted about 2 weeks ago???
And going and going ...
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Old 08-12-14, 10:35 AM   #163
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That's life, it's that simple.

But bike riding sure is something else. A bike is only as fast as the backside sitting on the saddle. I have raced BMX through to MTB & closed road (old small WW2 airports) circuits ie: Road Bikes. I raced a Redline Proline in the early 80's with z-rim wheels against lads with Redline flight cranks, PK Rippers & all the latest top end gear. I could bury most of them, yet a friend of mine could destroy just about anyone racing on an old Raleigh Burner. It will never change, i have stopped racing due to age & to many knocks over the years. Yet before packing it in i could still do a 10 mile TT in just under 25/24 mins (i felt like death afterwoods, wrong side of 45 years old) on a good day with the wind in my favour (not fast i hear you cry) on my PX Pro Carbon road bike. Others would have thousands of pounds of full on TT bikes just to get under 21/20 minutes. Just accept that is how it is & enjoy your riding. After all we cannot all be PRO RIDER's, so just have fun. Remember age and wind will beat the snobs in the end, just like any other rider.
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Old 08-12-14, 09:54 PM   #164
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As a "seasoned" counselor but new biker, I can say that in general, human beings get snotty and elitist not from their high-end biker experiences, but from their insecurities.

I agree!

And I do believe that yesterday, as well as todays generations of parents are to blame.
They became too involved in the belief that the best gift they could give their children was the gift of self esteem.
Their children couldn't ever do wrong. Little Billy even when he got a D was told how remarkable he was.
Parents did not believe in teaching children to be responsible for their actions, but to believe no matter how they failed, they were still "special"

Many children reacted to this by believing they are entitled to whatever it is they want and in doing so, they begin to believe they are far better than almost everyone they meet and no matter how they might fail, their parents so convinced them that they were the best that the world is full of a lot of losers today with seemingly huge egos that aren't truly as large as they seem, but are over compensating for the low egos they truly ended up with.

On the other hand, a lot of children whose parents kept telling them over and over how brilliant they were, and how they were the best and loved more because of it, were wise enough to know they weren't as good as they were being told and it eventually ate at them. They needed discipline, they needed their parents to be honest and tell them they were great, only when they truly were
These same children today have difficulties being given any sort of compliment for deep down they don't feel they deserve it and they too suffer from lowered self-esteem

So this is a result of too many parents believing the gift of self esteem was a gift they did not need to earn, but only had to hear daily, in and out. They never made these children work to earn this higher sense of self esteem but handed it to them on a platter and in doing so ruined a couple of generations of kids.


Take those kids and compare them to my parents. I might be older than some of you but my father was a British Royal Fighter Pilot, Air Arms division that fought Hitler and fought in every war that Britian was in until he eventually left in the 60s and began his own private insurance company that he did quite well with for he worked hard and that was what people expected to do for themselves.

Or my mother who drove ambulances throughout London during the Blitz, risking her life every single evening but who did so voluntarily for she knew to many boys that were dying, or were now dead, or that had gone down in planes into the sea but had lived, only to die hours later because of the numerous sharks circling them and gave what little she could give back.

Neither of my parents ever thought they were heroic. Quite the contrary. They believed themselves to be ordinary and never once bragged about their war time heroics.

Nor did either parent ever believe they were entitled to a "happy life". Again, quite the contrary. They believed they had to do whatever was necessary to make life comfortable for themselves and never once did they expect the government to help them out with money to do so. They did what they had to to make themselves happy but never felt once that it was up to others to provide that for them, but themselves.

That was the GREAT generation and none of their parents before them felt they owed them, these children of that great generation, self esteem. Life was simply too difficult to do so and yet those children grew up far better balanced then most of the children I see today.

So when you do all become parents and are told by your trendy friends that read the latest baby books that you owe it to your children to give them a great sense of self esteem, please advice said friends to throw out that book and treat that child as he deserves to be treated. He wants to be disciplined when he has done wrong. He doesn't want to be told how wonderful he is even when he knows down deep his parents are lying to him and he wants to be congratulated honestly and only when he truly does deserve it. He wants to earn your love, not have it handed to him simply because you believe him to be better than everyone else.

Its not only cyclists that have this attitude of superiority over others or entitlement issues, but children brought up by these parents who never were capable of teaching children to take responsibility for their own actions, or to be rewarded for honest accomplishments.
In my humble opinion, that is the devil that has created this ugliness in so many people of the world today! ;(

Last edited by SD-B; 08-12-14 at 10:08 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 08-12-14, 10:28 PM   #165
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You are blind to your own prejudice so of course you feel unjustly accused. It's not about treating others as they treat you, it's about whether you choose to embrace ignorance and make up generalizations that are untethered from any actual evidence, then try and spread those around to others so that they too can be prejudiced against another group without reason. You are like the carrier for a virus of irrational thinking. I'm pointing out that it is a form of bigotry so that that others can recognize it for being something that foolish ignoramuses cling to, and hopefully avoid getting infected. I've lost hope of a cure for people in advanced stages such as you though.
Pop psychobabble.
Rich
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Old 08-13-14, 06:57 AM   #166
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Pop psychobabble.
Rich
Yep
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Old 08-13-14, 08:24 AM   #167
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Actually, I never said that. Nice work making up things in your imagination. You may or may not be insecure, but you either lack reading comprehension or are prone to psychotic breaks.

What I *did* say, is that people who go around complaining about snobs are insecure. There's a distinction there that you seem to be missing. Or maybe not, perhaps you are one of those individuals who can't get over that some guys in spandex who you never met before don't want to be your friend. I don't like snobs much but it's not worth pointing out every time I encounter one and then maligning a whole group because of it. It's also ignorant prejudice to make up a generality about a group because of a couple of unpleasant interactions, or even better, because they don't happen wave at you on the MUP.
I disagree. If no one talks about it, nothing changes. It's this head-in-the-sand attitude that allows such snobbery to continue to exist. If more people spoke up and shamed the a-holes, there might be fewer of them. They won't change if they feel that they can get away with it. This stand for many areas of life.
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Old 08-13-14, 08:46 AM   #168
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From the very serious discussion here I gather that:
Snobs are found among the roadies, or down the road from them
Mountain bikers are hot shots, you can’t be a snob in cargo shorts with mud up your legs
Hybrids? Bunch of yuppie snob wannabes
And commuters aren't snobby, they’re sooty![/QUOTE]

Yikes. I own a MTB, Road and Hybrid bike. I have probably fallen into each one of those classes at some point in time. It may even change by day.
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Old 08-13-14, 08:51 AM   #169
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Road cyclists aren't snobs. We're self conscious middle aged fat guys that are dressed up in very colorful underwear. We're not snubbing you; we're just embarrassed to make eye contact.
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Old 08-13-14, 09:10 AM   #170
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gp

Right on. Thats why on my bents I wear t-shirts, and rugby shorts. They could be the source of some of the snobbery I have seen. Think about that-------------riding a bent in a t-shirt and rugby shorts. Acccording to some that is cycling blasphemy!!!!!!!! But then I dont care what they think, because most people dont think anyway!!!!!
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Old 08-13-14, 09:11 AM   #171
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I disagree. If no one talks about it, nothing changes. It's this head-in-the-sand attitude that allows such snobbery to continue to exist. If more people spoke up and shamed the a-holes, there might be fewer of them. They won't change if they feel that they can get away with it. This stand for many areas of life.
No one has actually provided any real evidence that this is a Serious Problem That Actually Exists. It's just an anecdote here or there combined with the common wisdom that "everyone knows" that roadies are snobs. Yet there is little evidence that anti-social behavior exists in any greater proportion among roadies than it does in any other cycling subgroup, or in the population at large. The endless complaint that roadies don't wave at non-roadies is a wonderful example of making up a problem where it doesn't exist.

I'm doing my part to shame the idiots who make claims about a group of people with zero credible evidence.

Again, if we were talking about any ethnic group instead of roadies this whole line of thinking on would be considered severely racist. Just because it's not about an ethnic group and about people who it's socially acceptable to malign doesn't mean it's not primitive, medieval thinking.
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Old 08-13-14, 10:04 AM   #172
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Does this site have an "ignore" function? There are some posters who just don't warrant reading, or deserve the time or respect of the reasonable posters. I'd rather just shut them out until they learn how to behave better.
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Old 08-13-14, 10:26 AM   #173
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I think there are groups of snobs in bike culture in general. Some don't consider you a cyclists unless you ride a roadie in full kit. Some won't consider you a cyclist unless you race. Maybe you're not cool if you don't basically live on a bike and lounge in bike shops...ect.

There are all sorts of stupid ideas about what makes one a cyclist, including the brand, type and price of bike you ride.
See Define: "BICYCLIST" or let's at least get clear on the concept! for details.
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Old 08-13-14, 10:42 AM   #174
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Road cyclists aren't snobs. We're self conscious middle aged fat guys that are dressed up in very colorful underwear. We're not snubbing you; we're just embarrassed to make eye contact.
hahahahaha! Love this!
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Old 08-13-14, 10:46 AM   #175
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Road cyclists aren't snobs. We're self conscious middle aged fat guys that are dressed up in very colorful underwear. We're not snubbing you; we're just embarrassed to make eye contact.

We have a winner! ^^^^ Tip 'o the hat!
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