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  1. #1
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    Need advice on a Bike (Cyclocross)

    Hi,

    I am sure you guys get this question a lot but i am trying to get into biking, just moved to a new city and don't know anyone around here to ask about bikes. Is this a good deal?

    http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...603412988.html

    I am looking for an entry level cross bike and debating between something like this vs getting a real cheapo to make sure i am into the sport first. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Also, if i am posting in the wrong place let me know!
    Last edited by ewhitey718; 08-05-14 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Link issue

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    that is a 60cm size.
    How tall are you?.

  3. #3
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Not sure why he replaced the front and rear mech with Dura-Ace but left the rest the same. I don't quite see the point of upgrading the derailleurs to DA but leaving the shifters at Tiagra level. So on that basis I'd struggle to assign much value to the upgrades, so would see it as a not-quite-year-old bike that he bought for $821 and now wants to sell for $800 because he put fancy derailleurs on it.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

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    Senior Member alcjphil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    Not sure why he replaced the front and rear mech with Dura-Ace but left the rest the same. I don't quite see the point of upgrading the derailleurs to DA but leaving the shifters at Tiagra level. So on that basis I'd struggle to assign much value to the upgrades, so would see it as a not-quite-year-old bike that he bought for $821 and now wants to sell for $800 because he put fancy derailleurs on it.
    The upgrades add very little value to the bike. Had he wanted to do a meaningful upgrade it would have been far better to have upgraded the shifters, not the derailleurs. The bike is worth a little more than half the original price. Don't forget, any original warranty is no longer valid.

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    I am 6'2. That really helps on the upgrade advice. From my very limited knowledge it did seem a little strange but he said he was going to upgrade the shifters but didnt get around to it. I was weighing this vs going into a bike shop and buying something with less specs but new (and warranty). Thanks for the advice everyone. Much appreciated.

    I'm trying to educate myself quickly on bike components and frames but this required quick action so figured I'd check with you all. If anyone has any resources to really learn about bike builds, etc would love to hear it (although I'm sure the more i dig around the forums the more i'll learn). Thanks

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    What is it that causes shifters to be a more important upgrade vs. derailleurs? I understand that "the shifters tell the derailleurs what to do," but that doesn't really explain the mechanism of action, and it seems like a bit of a simplification. When manufacturers try to make a price point, the shifters are often compromised, and they do something like a Tiagra front D and shifters, but a 105 rear D. This is probably some sort of fallacy, but wouldn't the manufacturers know what makes the biggest differences, and act accordingly?

  7. #7
    Senior Member alcjphil's Avatar
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    It is a very small cost to upgrade a rear derailleur to the next level up, only a few dollars, but the name on the derailleur is easily seen. It is all about marketing. It is far more expensive to upgrade shifters which can make a bigger difference to shifting precision than the derailleur upgrade. Better shifters are more precise, they move the derailleur more precisely and position it over the cog. The basic geometry of derailleurs made by any company is similar from the lower to the higher end models, otherwise you would not be able to make different series of components work together.

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    Component levels for SRAM and Shimano

    Once you get to mid-level in components, they all work pretty well and will last for many miles. It is worth spending enough to reach that level. The upper level components are lighter and get you a fancier finish but you have to decide if the price differential is worth it. I find mid-level components to be just fine for my riding. Here are links to the component levels for Shimano and SRAM, the two most common OEM component makers. The links I had listed did not work in spite of being correct when I visited the site 7-27-14. Try this instead.

    Go to the opening page for the website choose my bicycle Cycling | Cycles in India | Compare Cycles | Reviews | ChooseMyBicycle.com Near the top of the page you will see selections and click on "Tips". This will bring up two pages of tips and among them are tables for these two hierarchies. It also has a lot of other good tips for newbies seeking a new bike. The site is in India but the information is good for American riders as well.

    You can't usually combine shifters by one manufacturer and derailleurs by another but you can have different manufacturers front and rear. I have SRAM TT500 shifter/Microshift FD and Shimano Dura Ace thumb shifter/Shimano Deore RD on my current trike. The OEM SRAM X-7 RD really sucked so I dumped it but had to change the rear thumb shifter as well.

    In my book, the lighter the bike, the better. A light bike invariably means the manufacturer used decent components and did not put a lot of useless crap on the bike like a kickstand and cheap suspension. That what you do get on BSOs sold by the mass merchandisers.
    Last edited by VegasTriker; 08-06-14 at 02:50 PM. Reason: links not working

  9. #9
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewhitey718 View Post
    I am sure you guys get this question a lot but i am trying to get into biking, just moved to a new city and don't know anyone around here to ask about bikes.
    Welcome to DC. The derailleur upgrades really don't do anything with the stock Tiagra brifters. Also,from what I could Google,that bike has an alloy fork. YMMV,but I try to stay away from alloy forks with my CT and the state of DC roads. Dude would've done better to keep the ders and swap the fork. Price is typical DC,do to the transitory nature of this area,the used bike market is pretty robust. I also would def not use that cable lock to secure it.

    I think you could do better if you looked around. Unfortunately,because of the law,DC bike shops don't sell used(they'd need a pawn license) unless they're rental bikes. So you're either doing CL or the local co-ops. Here's a list of the local co-ops and clinics,if you want to check them out. I run the Glover one.
    https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...=12&dg=feature

    As for local shops,I'd avoid the Big Wheel locations. The others are fairly equal,depends on who's working and what kind of day they're having. The local REI and HTO locations are also decent.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L

  10. #10
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewhitey718 View Post
    I am 6'2. That really helps on the upgrade advice. From my very limited knowledge it did seem a little strange but he said he was going to upgrade the shifters but didnt get around to it. I was weighing this vs going into a bike shop and buying something with less specs but new (and warranty). Thanks for the advice everyone. Much appreciated.

    I'm trying to educate myself quickly on bike components and frames but this required quick action so figured I'd check with you all. If anyone has any resources to really learn about bike builds, etc would love to hear it (although I'm sure the more i dig around the forums the more i'll learn). Thanks
    Whether he "didn't get around to it" or was never going to do it in the first place makes little difference - the bike is what it is.

    If you're going to pay $800 for a bike that cost $821 a year ago and has upgrades that won't offer you any value, my thought is that you'd be better off finding the extra $21 and getting a new bike with a warranty. Otherwise you're saving $21 for the sake of Dura-Ace derailleurs and buying a bike with no warranty.

    With any upgrades it's worth looking at whether they add anything useful to the bike or just bling it up a little. If you want to spend some money on shiny blingy upgrades that's one thing but there comes a point when you're just throwing money around because you can. It's also worth looking at the bike - if you put diamond encrusted wheels on a brand new Lamborghini Aventador Roadster it might look the part and add some value to it, but if you put similar wheels on an 8-year-old Ford Taurus it just looks a bit sad.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  11. #11
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
    Once you get to mid-level in components, they all work pretty well and will last for many miles. It is worth spending enough to reach that level. The upper level components are lighter and get you a fancier finish but you have to decide if the price differential is worth it. I find mid-level components to be just fine for my riding. Here are links to the component levels for Shimano and SRAM, the two most common OEM component makers: http://www.choosemybicycle.com/in/en...nent-hierarchy
    http://www.choosemybicycle.com/in/en...nent-hierarchy
    http://www.choosemybicycle.com/in/en...nent-hierarchy
    http://www.choosemybicycle.com/in/.....nent-hierarchy

    You can't usually combine shifters by one manufacturer and derailleurs by another but you can have different manufacturers front and rear. I have SRAM TT500 shifter/Microshift FD and Shimano Dura Ace thumb shifter/Shimano Deore RD on my current trike. The OEM SRAM X-7 RD really sucked so I dumped it but had to change the rear thumb shifter as well.

    In my book, the lighter the bike, the better. A light bike invariably means the manufacturer used decent components and did not put a lot of useless crap on the bike like a kickstand and cheap suspension. That what you do get on BSOs sold by the mass merchandisers.
    None of those links are working.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
    It is a very small cost to upgrade a rear derailleur to the next level up, only a few dollars, but the name on the derailleur is easily seen. It is all about marketing. It is far more expensive to upgrade shifters which can make a bigger difference to shifting precision than the derailleur upgrade. Better shifters are more precise, they move the derailleur more precisely and position it over the cog. The basic geometry of derailleurs made by any company is similar from the lower to the higher end models, otherwise you would not be able to make different series of components work together.
    Isn't the new Tiagra the old 105, before they switched to the hidden cables? That wouldn't make the difference seem as large, if so.

  13. #13
    Senior Member alcjphil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jas556 View Post
    Isn't the new Tiagra the old 105, before they switched to the hidden cables? That wouldn't make the difference seem as large, if so.
    Tiagra components are very good quality. There are many who swear that the older exposed cable design provides superior shifting to the newer hidden cable shifters. In that case, 10 speed Tiagra shifters could actually work better than 105 5700 10 speed with hidden cables. The thing is that rear derailleur logos are easy to see. Many prospective buyers will look only at the rear derailleur and assume that the rest of the drivetrain is at the same level. The "upgrade" costs the manufacturer a couple of dollars. If it results in a few thousand more sales it was worth it and the cost is absorbed by a tiny price increase.

  14. #14
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    I corrected a way to see the hierarchy tables for SRAM and Shimano in my original post. Sorry for the confusion. If you simply google on "SRAM component level hierarchy" and Shimano component level hierarchy" you will find links to the choose my bicycle website in India where you can find the tables I mentioned.

    Shimano Tiagara and Shimnao 105 are still a separate lines of road bike components with 105s being more expensive. If you look at any of the larger online retailers you will see both listed. I recently bought a 700C wheel with a Shimano 105 hub. I used a short cage 105 RD on my previous trike (bought 3rd hand) and I had to replace the RD once in 27K miles. The teeth on the jockey wheels were worn smooth but it still shifted smoothly and precisely. Can't ask for more than that in a derailleur.
    Last edited by VegasTriker; 08-06-14 at 03:10 PM.

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