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-   -   A right to road? (http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/97817-right-road.html)

HaagenDas 04-06-05 04:18 PM

A right to road?
 
I was just reading the thread about the critical mass ride.

I'm not inclined either way but cyclists don't pay any road taxes in any country I know of. I've also seen cyclists in groups hog the roads. Also note that cyclists often flaunt road rules etc. Motorists pay through the nose in taxes and fuel levies for roads, quite the opposite to cyclists.

What are your opinions? Should cyclists pay some road taxes or registration for their bikes etc?

randya 04-06-05 04:29 PM

Roads are paid for in many ways, gas taxes being only one of them. Local roads are typically funded by general funds, property taxes and other taxes, in addition to gas taxes. Bicycles also do little in the way of damage to roads that needs repairing, and reduce congestion on roads, thus offsetting the cost of road expansion and widening. I'll stop there; for more info, see selected reports below:

http://www.vtpi.org/whoserd.pdf
http://www.vtpi.org/nmt-tdm.pdf
http://www.rprogress.org/newpubs/200..._gas_taxes.pdf
http://www.vtpi.org/documents/transportation.php

Cynikal 04-06-05 04:53 PM

Most city and county taxes go into a general fund. That general fund funds infrastructure upkeep and other projects. We all pay for the roads and all deserve to use them. Just becuse gas taxes are earmarked for roads doesn't mean that they comprise the entire fund. Roads are designed for vehicles and under most (if not all) states bikes are considered vehicles.

I agree that the CM's of the world can be disruptive, actually that is the point. I personally feel they do more harm than good to cyclists. Now if they took only one lane and had signs or banners with an actual point then I would be the first to sign up.

Cynikal 04-06-05 04:56 PM

OK my bad....I just saw that you are not in the US and I'm pretty sure that what I stated above is not global.

operator 04-06-05 05:25 PM

Not this again.

HaagenDas 04-06-05 05:31 PM

Doesn't matter if it's US, UK, Ukraine or Oz. I was just trying to get a feel how cyclists felt about it.

Blackberry 04-06-05 06:05 PM

I think many commuting cyclists, club riders, and others who regularly just enjoy weekend type riding don't like to see cyclists riding on the wrong side of the road, riding on the sidewalk or riding three abreast in traffic. It gives all cyclists a bad name and it's dangerous.

Awhile back a guy riding the wrong side of the road in my town barely missed causing a serious accident. I saw the whole thing. He started screaming at one of the drivers. I said to him, "It was your fault. You were going the wrong way." He scowled at me and rode off--on the wrong side of the road, of course.

HaagenDas 04-06-05 06:29 PM

Sounds like another 80%er. No brains and always right.

James H Haury 04-06-05 06:40 PM

When i see cyclists riding the wrong way i try to correct them it does no good.But to get back to my original point.Bikes do not cause rippled asphalt at intersections like overloaded lorries do. :rolleyes:

Allister 04-06-05 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaagenDas
I was just trying to get a feel how cyclists felt about it.

I'd pay it if required. However, it'd most likely result in a reduction in cyclists numbers. I really don't think that's in anyone's interest.

If it was worthwhile, it'd still be in place in the places it's been tried eg. Queensland and W.A. (that I know of)

randya 04-06-05 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackberry
....club riders, and others who regularly just enjoy weekend type riding...

These are not 'real' cyclists, IMO ;) :D

Sprocket Man 04-06-05 06:57 PM

In Hawaii, I have to pay registration fees for my bikes. I don't mind paying it - it's a one-time fee of about $80. But when you register your bike, they mail you a license sticker that is about 2" x 3.5" and very ugly. I refuse to put that crap on my beautiful bikes!

PWRDbyTRD 04-06-05 08:33 PM

we should get a refund for not usin' fuel

2manybikes 04-06-05 09:52 PM

When I do not use my car that I pay taxes on, when I do not wear the road in my town that my house taxes help pay for, when I do not pollute, when I do not use any gasoline or oil, when I do not add to the traffic jam, when I do not add to the landfill as much, when I become healthier and tax the healthcare system less by exercising, when I operate a vehicle that does not have the same potential to hurt others and potentialy less stress on the fire and police department that I pay for, I deserve a refund at the very least.

The State of New Jersey has a law that is either in progress or now a law that provides tax credits by mile for cyclists in that state. It's not much but it's a good start.

In the USA the roads were first built for bicycles, not cars anyway.

HaagenDas 04-06-05 09:55 PM

Tax credits for biking... what a sound idea.

2manybikes 04-06-05 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaagenDas
Tax credits for biking... what a sound idea.

Also....

In the center of London there is now a "congestion charge" for bringing a car in to the center of town during peak times. This is to encourage cycling to work. The studies say it is working.

Companies are given tax credits for encouraging cycling to work, by providing showers, secure bike parking, lockers, etc.

HaagenDas 04-06-05 10:26 PM

Sounds terrific.

2manybikes 04-06-05 11:39 PM

I wish the USA had the same incentive to provide a safe place at work for your bike and showers. But hey, were just one of the colonies.

PWRDbyTRD 04-07-05 12:13 AM

good lord if I could get paid to ride my bike to work...I'd never bother with a car ever again

HaagenDas 04-07-05 12:16 AM

I wouldn't bother with work either. I'd take nice long day trips and tell 'em I'm a travelling salesman.

Doctor Morbius 04-07-05 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaagenDas
I was just reading the thread about the critical mass ride.

I'm not inclined either way but cyclists don't pay any road taxes in any country I know of. I've also seen cyclists in groups hog the roads. Also note that cyclists often flaunt road rules etc. Motorists pay through the nose in taxes and fuel levies for roads, quite the opposite to cyclists.

What are your opinions? Should cyclists pay some road taxes or registration for their bikes etc?

Pedestrians don't pay anything either and they have sidewalks. Cyclists are lawfully required (or at least expected) to share the road with 3,000 lb projectiles driven by soccer moms!! :eek: There are also many rail to trail projects that have materialized, but unfortunately pedestrians make it next to impossible for many cyclists to actually use them unless they are going 3 MPH.

On a side note, I think the gas tax is the most fair tax on the books - at least in theory. The more a person drives, the more they pay in gas taxes at the pump. It's unfortunate that it ends up in the general fund and gets mismanaged like everything else government blunders. At least that's how it goes here in the States.

Doctor Morbius 04-07-05 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manybikes
In the USA the roads were first built for bicycles, not cars anyway.

Even the Wright Brothers were bicycle builders before they made airplanes. Orville and Wilbur, now there's a couple of keen names for ya! :D

Whoodie 04-07-05 02:10 AM

Hi HD? Too bad you did come for Easter. I really had prepared for you and BB a bash.

No we shouldn't pay direct taxes for road usage. If bikes alone were to ride in the roads it will take ages to damage these roads, I mean a bike + the ride weighs about 100Kg, a car + driver about 5tons, an 18 wheeler + goods about 80tons.

Bike pays if pedestrian pays for the side walks too.

HaagenDas 04-07-05 02:18 AM

You're in my "I'm almost not talking to you list" Whoodie!! I rolled up at Kenya airport. I was the only white bloke there mate, you couldn't have missed me. Well, after a few beers and a rather unsatisfactory interlude at a doss house I got on me bike and rode home. Anyway, that's all water under the bridge I suppose. How go the speed events down that mine shaft old mate?

Ash, over here we pay a three cent per litre fuel levy which is supposed to be for road improvements. They only use one cent of it and our roads are dead set crap.. almost as bad as Kenya :D I'd say the roads in Zimbabwe are better than ours and the locals there reckon they have goat tracks. Of course there are the other taxes that get set aside for road work but it never gets there. Whilst all this is going down, the government is playing down its 10 billion dollar surplus.

Doctor Morbius 04-07-05 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaagenDas
... Whilst all this is going down, the government is playing down its 10 billion dollar surplus.

You guys have a surplus? My God we're a few trillion in debt. Even poor countries like China have been floating our debt for quite some time. Me thinks we're headed for a disaster ala 1930's or something.


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