Dave Horne

Tannus create the PUNCTURE-PROOF bike tyre | Daily Mail Online


Just passin' this on.

prathmann

There have been many iterations of the 'invention' of puncture-proof bicycle tires using assorted types of foam materials. Previous efforts have been less than satisfactory with a rough ride and high rolling resistance compared to pneumatic tires. Remains to be seen how this material fares in independent testing.

cyccommute 

Not to mention difficulty of installation. Or, more importantly, removal.

2manybikes

Not new at all.

BlazingPedals

You do NOT want airless tires. Heavier, harsher-riding, and way more rolling resistance. Regardless of what the ad script says.

corrado33

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the article states they weight less than a standard bike tire/tube combo. That was my first idea as well. I'd imagine the ride would be pretty bad as pneumatic tires were invented to smooth the ride out.

JanMM

The pictures clearly show the tires being punctured by nails and tacks. "Tannus create the PUNCTURE-PROOF bike tyre | Daily Mail Online"
Liars!

Caliper

But they also say this tire weighs 430g, which to me is noticably more than a tire and tube. It all depends on what "standard" tire and tube you are comparing to.

StephenH

A few years ago, I was reading posts on here about some other wonderful airless tire, and how tremendously wonderful it was, and how anyone who pointed out its flaws was just a hater, etc. Strangely enough, I haven't read anything about those tires in two or three years now. So maybe they, and EVERY airless tire that went before them was utter crap, but THIS time, it's different, and these are really and truly the greatest thing since buttered bread. Or maybe not and they're just more snake oil. Wait five years and we'll see.

prathmann

The tires can clearly be penetrated by nails or tacks, but the common meaning of "puncture" implies that there is an accompanying deflation - such as escaping air in the case of a tire. These tires are made with some type of foam inside so even though they are penetrated they won't deflate and are therefore puncture-proof.

Whether they are actually any good for bicycling remains to be seen. Previous attempts have had such poor ride and rolling resistance characteristics that almost all cyclists preferred to deal with an occasional puncture instead of using such tires. However, there are some special circumstances where they make sense and continue to be used. E.g. short trips in an environment with lots of sharp objects on the ground.

cplager

A lot of these tires can't be removed without destroying them, so changing spoke could be difficult.

And what everybody else said.

For a short commute where you really don't want flats, I could see trying it. But everybody I've met who has had stopped using them.

GravelMN

It's a great concept but so far nobody has been able to make it work well. Perhaps as materials technology and product design advances, there will one day be a truly "flat-proof" tire that performs as well as today's pneumatic tires. I'd like to ride a bike equipped with these just to see how far along the concept has come, but I won't be buying any soon.

La Tortue

Tubeless works and although not 100% flat proof very close. The Schwalbe One rolls better than its tube counterpart and the weight difference between the two is minimal.

cyccommute 

The "not 100% flat proof [but] very close" is the rub. Most everyone that I talk to with tubeless carries a tube in case they fall into that "not 100% flat proof" area. Reseating one out in the field with a handpump is next to impossible.

As for the weight, the tubeless is almost 150g (1/4 lb) heavier (for a 28mm 700C tire) than the non-tubeless and, when you add in the weight of the sealant, that's an extra half pound total rotating weight. Considering that the regular Schwalbe ONE has a belt for protection, it's flat resistance is probably close to that of the tubeless tire anyway.

La Tortue

I guess the question is, of those tubeless users you talk to, how many are unhappy with tubeless and quit using them? I'm really liking the roll. Pinch flat and rim heat blow out is eliminated. Real world weight difference for me is 2 ounces heavier when weighing the Schwalbe One on the rim and the conti grand prix 4000s that came off. A spare tube makes sense and eliminates the "hard to seat" in the field issue. The best part is the need for that spare tube has been reduced to such a low level you are tempted to not bring a pump, tools , or tube and drop almost two pounds.

fietsbob

Moon Buggy has puncture proof tires too ... It's still Up there .

Wilfred Laurier

I laughed as soon as I saw the title. I don't know how many of the previous attempts are still available, but I am pretty sure every iteration of foam and rigid plastic and air pockets has been tried, and while they absolutely do eliminate flat tires, they don't do much else well that you want a bike tire to do.

As for me, I get one or two flats on an average year and I think that is a small price to pay for low rolling resistance and high comfort. I am in no way trying to say that nobody should try these 'new' tires, just that the past versions, from what I have heard, do not meet most people's expectations.
If your bike is used for carrying boxes of staples around a furniture factory, these might be the best tires available.

cyccommute 

There are lots and lots of claims made about tubeless that make no sense. For road tires, why are you worried about pinch flats in the first place? Road tires have very little volume and running them at low pressures is just asking for a bent rim...which would make tubeless useless since it wouldn't seal. For off-road use, lowering the pressure gains you traction (at the expense of rolling resistance) but even there you'd have to be careful not to bottom out the rim.

As for rim heat blowout, that is mostly a myth anyway. The temperatures you'd have to generate to blow a tire off a rim due to heating is very high. An increase in temperature of 100C (212F) increases the pressure in a tire from 100 psi to 134 psi. That's not a whole lot of pressure difference for a very large increase in temperature and probably within the margin of safety for most tubed tires. Tubeless tires have lower pressure ratings which lowers the margin of safety and thus increases the likelihood of blow-off due to pressure increases due to temperature.

If you aren't going to carry a pump, tools or a tube on any bike ride, no matter what the tires you are using, don't go any further then you are prepared to walk. Honestly, flats on a tubed tire aren't all that common either. It depends on where you ride and what you ride your bike into.

BlazingPedals

This isn't an endorsement, it's just proof that Tannus isn't the first.
Airless Bicycle Tire Archives » Air Free Tires

JanMM

Puncture also means to pierce or penetrate, which is what the tacks and nails are shown doing to the wonder tire. Deflation related to puncture would only be associated with objects that can be deflated, such as pneumatic, not airless, tires. Actually, pneumatic tires with Slime inside could be punctured without deflating.
What we need is for someone to try out these tires and report back.

La Tortue

I was skeptical like you at one time but unlike you my flat rate is much higher than I would like. This is why I decided to try the tubeless and am happy with the results. I generally don't buy the hype from manufactures but in this case I am starting to believe it. Take the time to watch the video if you will.

cyccommute 

I'm still skeptical. And that video doesn't do much to reduce my skepticism. There are a some claims made that are goofy. For example without sealant, a tubeless isn't any less puncture resistant than a tire with a tube...except for the fact that the tubeless is thicker and heavier. I could run thicker heavier tires with tubes and get the same effect. Further what is the difference between a tubeless tire with sealant and a tubed tire with sealant? As far as I can tell, nothing.

The video also claims that "blowouts are virtually impossible because there is no tube". The problem is that any pressure vessel can be over pressured and can fail. Tubeless, because of the way that the tire interacts with the rim, can't be run at higher pressures. Without exception, all of the tubeless Schwalbe ONEs run at 15 psi lower maximum pressure than the tubed Schwalbe ONE. They are even playing fast and loose with the "blow off" test they are using. Assuming that each tire is inflated to the recommended pressure...100 psi for the tubeless and 115 psi for the tubed...the pressure of the tubed tire is going to be higher at a lower temperature than the tubeless. At 186C, the tubeless is going to see a final pressure of 156psi. The tubed tire is going to see a pressure of 160psi at 136C. I suspect that the blowoff pressure for both tires is pretty close to 160psi and that if you started the tubed tire at 100psi, you could get to 186C as well.

The image on the video around 2:55 demonstrates one of the major problems I have with low pressures. If a heavier rider were to hit the edge of that pothole and had that much tire deformation, they could easily dent the rim. Having a tire that deforms a lot may make for a cushier ride but you risk wheel damage. And on a narrow tire (<28 mm), the cushion for error is very small.

Finally, there is the claim that lower tire pressure make cornering better. I've ridden tires that are going flat slowly and never noticed that they corner "better". At some point, the tire starts to squirm and feel like the tire is going to roll off the rim. It doesn't make me corner with more confidence but makes me want to find out why my tire is flat.

Wilfred Laurier

I agree with this for road bikes, where there are three pressure ranges for any tire: too high, where the bike bounces around a bit and traction is compromised; correct pressure range, which could be anywhere from somewhat above the pressure printed on the tire to somewhat below the pressure printed on the tire as long as there is no risk of bottoming out against the rim; and too low where there is squirm. My experience is that anywhere in the middle 'correct' range has plenty of traction and going lower does not increase it, and generally only makes handling worse through squirming.

For off-road bikes, though, a nice soft tire can increase traction immensely, as well as smooth out the ride. THe elimination of pinch flats is a real boon for riders who continue to get benefits from lowering pressure until it is likely that a tubed tire will suffer pinch flats

La Tortue

Your conjecture on tubeless sounds reasonable. That would make these tires a hard to mount, heavy, slow, may pop, wheel destroying tire no one would dare ride. My problem is I have found this not the case during real world riding. Based on my experiences your cornering speculation is beyond anywhere near accurate. This is the best cornering tire I have ever used, I have yet to flat on these tires. Mounting is no more difficult while performance has not decreased. "Web wisdom" may say one thing but in my case real world riding is saying tubeless rocks.

cyccommute 

So you are saying that a tubeless is easier to mount and is lighter? Can you mount yours without a compressor? All you have to do is check the weight to see that they are heavier. As for the claim that they "may pop", Schwalbe is the one who made the claim that they are "virtually impossible" to blow off the rim but fudged the demonstration. Tubeless are all listed at lower maximum pressures than for a tubed tire which, to me, means that they can't handle higher pressure and stay on the rim.

Cornering is in the eye of the beholder. I have no problem cornering any tire that I own from 2.2" knobbies to 23mm road tires at just about any speed that a reasonable person would find stupid, including 30+ mph paved corners on the knobs.

There are also lots of people who have run conventional tubes and tires for years without having flats. I, myself, can go for very long periods without flats and then, at other times, go for only feet between flats. Flats are random and even tires with belts and sealant to stop flats can still get punctured. The sealant used in tubeless is no different than Slime and Slime won't stop all flats. Actually, from what I understand, the sealant in tubeless isn't the same as Slime. It has to be refreshed on a regular basis which begs the question of "why?" Where does the sealant go? The sealant is mostly water and the tire is waterproof. Even if the sealant were to polymerize in the tire, the water isn't involved in that reaction.

I never said anything about them being "slow". Projecting?

Finally, if you really feel the need to run a tire of any kind at a lower pressure, you have to be willing to suffer the consequences. The air in the tire does protect the rim and if you bottom out the rim on a pothole, you risk damaging the wheel.