ICEN

Out of everything I have seen thus far this is probably like the last thing I am confused on.

For the hell of it I googled almost every part of these 2 bike specs, although I could not find the Forks or Frames for either bikes, but I could find every other component and see how much it cost.

Explain how this makes sense

This bike cost $450 and has a list price of $1199 Save Up To 60% Off Road Bikes - Motobecane Mirage Tour
This bike cost $400 and has a list price of $800 Save up to 60% off new Hybrid Bicycles | Adventure Hybrid 29er Bikes Elite Adventure Sport Trail

Now this is what I do not understand, and I literally mean that.

I checked the specs of both bikes on google, meaning I typed in the parts separately to see how expensive each part is.
For example, I took both rear derailleurs and both front derailleurs and compared which bike had more expensive parts.

The cheaper $400 bike has MORE EXEPENSIVE parts on like 95% of the bike than the more expensive bike with a higher list price....

Seriously, the only parts I cannot find on google are the frames and forks, therefor those are the only parts I do not know which is better on or more expensive.

But if you literally google any of these parts, mostly all of the parts, the derailleurs, the chain, the cassette, shifters, brakes, ect.

All of these parts on the $400 bike with a less list price COST MORE than the more expensive bike....

So someone tell me why this bike is cheaper than with a less expensive list price if over 95% of the bike is MORE expensive ???

Like I said, the only two parts I can't know about are the frame and forks.

The reason this confuses me is this, if the cheaper bike has more expensive components on 95% of the bike, does that mean its better? (Again I couldn't find the forks or frames on google)

njkayaker

You don't provide enough information.

You should show us the numbers you got. How much more expensive? You should list each of the components too. It's possible you missed someyhing important.

BD might have gotten deals on some of the parts. Some if the "more expensive" parts might be older (keep an eye on different numbers of speeds).

Open market prices might not be a reliable indicator of how much the parts cost BD.

BD's list prices are made-up numbers.

JerrySTL

I agree with njkayaker that BD's list prices are wishful thinking at best. It's the selling price that matters. The Mirage does have a carbon fiber fork which could be more expensive than the cheap suspension fork on the Elite. Also the Mirage might just have a nicer, lighter frame.

As the bikes are for somewhat different uses, what's important is buying the bike that meets your needs more than the price.

alcjphil

List prices on sites like this mean nothing. They are selling the bikes for whatever they think they can get for them. Comparing these 2 bikes is an apples and oranges exercise, they are very different types of bikes. The one with the narrow tires and carbon fork is a flat bar road bike, the other one is almost a mountain bike. As such, they fall into very different categories. The one with front suspension does have better components, but that does not mean that it will out perform the other one in all situations. The bike with the non suspension fork would feel much lighter and faster on a long road ride, the other bike would do better on poor roads.
It isn't just about components, you have to look at what the bike is designed to do

BlazingPedals

Sometimes, one bike is just a better 'deal.' It might mean they're having a problem unloading it. That doesn't mean it'll be the right bike for you. But yeah, what njkayaker says, too. List price for parts is a poor indicator for volume-discount cost.

delcrossv

Literally.

ICEN

But for example, shifting should be waaaay better on that cheaper bike with better parts right? Isn't that a BIG concern? Wanting to own a bike that has good shifting? Isn't that better that you have a bike with more expensive derailleurs and shifters and shouldn't that make it superior when shifting up hills, on flats, ect?

Also you said the road bike will FEEL more light on a LONG ride. Okay I am not talking about a 4 hour ride . If you were gone for 1 hour which bike is going to do better mostly on the road. Oh by they way I seen that that road bike weights about 23 pounds SUPPOSELY. I don't know how much that cheaper bike weighs.

But what I am concerned about is this, lets just say that road bike is a bit lighter (Not sure how much faster that would make you), the cheaper bike has better parts though? So should I be concerned about that bike shifting if it has less expensive parts than that cheaper bike with better parts to make it shift better?

One last thing, that cheaper bike no only has better parts, but is has more gears, so on steep road shouldn't that 27 speed crush that 21 speed?
Because its not a full mountain bike, it has almost road bike tires.

I am not sure how much of a speed difference the weight would make compared to the more gears of the cheaper bike.

Lets assume the road bike is lighter and has slightly thinner wheels for the road.

Okay I know that it has those two thigns but do those two things ALONE make that bike superior on the road which has hills, ect compared to a 27 speed bike that has slightly bigger tires, better parts and gearing but probably a more heavy frame?

Sorry if I sound like I am creating a battle of the bikes...

But that's what I need to understand which is superior because its as if one bike is lighter but has less expensive parts which makes me question the shifting but its probably lighter with thinner wheels, BUT the other bike has better parts which makes me think shifting will probably never go wrong, has more gearing which I thought would make it better on hills even on a road, but its just a bit heavier ect.

I'MMMMMMMMM SOOOOOO CONFFFFUUUUUUUSEEEEEDDDD

Heeeeelllppp meeeee

Like if I had to choose I literally cannot. I do not get how much weight plays a role instead of having more gears or better components other than the frame.

CliffordK

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel with both of those bikes.
There is more to a bike than just derailleurs and shifters.

Don't forget the frame and forks.
My guess is the Mirage with a CF fork and "lightweight tubing" has a much lighter frame than the Adventurer.

Ahhh... the two bikes aren't even in the same class.

The Mirage is a flat bar "road bike" with 25mm tires.
The Adventurer is a MTB with 40mm tires.

Get whichever meets your needs.

I do find it annoying that road bike equipment is often more expensive than MTB equipment, but it is in part supply and demand. One would think that making stuff light would simply require less materials, but it may also take more engineering, and closer tolerances. And, historically MTB equipment outsold road equipment... perhaps 10:1, especially in the department store quality bikes. This means that they can be produced with much more bulk production methods while the quality road bikes are more of one-off individual production bikes.

BlazingPedals

Like I wrote before, I would not buy a new bike that was only 7 speeds in back. I just wouldn't. That's not a question of which might be faster, it's a question of buying a new bike that's obsolescent at the time of purchase. You're not only comparing an apple to an orange, but you're asking us which is better? Comparing a flat-bar roadie to a fixie, a fat bike, or a recumbent is kind of pointless because they're all different bikes. You need to first identify what style of bike would best suit your needs, then find one of those that fits inside your budget and has components you can live with. Quit agonizing over whether a grape is better than a blueberry.

alcjphil

A lighter weight bike with lighter tires and a rigid fork will be faster by virtue of being more efficient to pedal. Better shifting won't make a bike faster, you only shift once in awhile on a ride. On a long ride on flat roads you might not shift for an hour or more. What is important is having the right gears for riding conditions. More gears will not necessarily mean that you have lower gears for hill climbing or higher gears for fast riding, all it means is that the gear ratios will be spaced closer together. A bike with 700 x 40 tires and a suspension fork is going to slow you down riding on the road. Added to that, the suspension fork raises the front end of the bike higher, putting you in a much less aerodynamic riding position which will slow you down, particularly if there is a headwind. It has already been admitted that the 27 speed bike has better shifting components, but that doesn't mean that it would be better in all riding situations. These 2 bikes should not be compared at all, they are too different and they are not intended for the same purpose. If you want to compare bikes, start by finding 2 bikes intended for the same sort of riding

VegasTriker

You can check the order of Shimano road bike components (cheapest to most expensive) here: Shimano Road Component Hierarchy | ChooseMyBicycle.com. They have a similar list for the MTB components. The Mirage Tour has Claris drive train components which are 2nd from the bottom in order of quality. The Elite Adventure has MTB components so they are not directly comparable but the Shimano Alivo and Deore are mid-level components. Mid level components do work better than the lowest entry level crap. Once you get past mid-level the increase in price is more related to finishes and weight than in having the part work orders of magnitude better. I'd go for the lighter bike WITHOUT suspension. You can always upgrade individual components but you can't shave the weight off a bike without spending $$$$. How often you shift depends upon where you ride. I ride in an urban area with lots of traffic control devices such as stop signs and traffic lights. The very first thing needing replacement on my trikes were the shift cables. I'd never settle for anything below Shimano Deore or the SRAM equivalent.


I owned a Motobecane Mirage and their most expensive factory bike the Motobecane Le Champion back in the days when it was a French made bike, not one where the name is owned by a conglomerate and made in China. The Le Champion was an exceedingly fine bike. I kept mine for two decades and only gave it away when I finally realized I was never going to ride it again after being seduced by recumbent bikes and trikes.

ICEN

I guess my problem is I was trying to compare components from road bikes and mountain bikes. Like I know DEORE/ALIVO is like mid range and I know Claris is like a step up but I was trying to see for example which derailleurs are better between like ALIVIO/DEORE to Claris, but I guess there is no way to compare?

Anyways THIS WAS the bike I WANTED Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Liberty 3 | Save up to 60% off new road bikes
It has TIAGRA components

But I can't get it because its not in my size, I am about 5'9 and the only frames left are the smaller or larger frames....

Other wise I would have probably bought that bike.

What about 24 speed bikes, the ONLY reason I was not looking at them was because I read someone post something saying 24 speed bikes generally have lesser quality parts than 27 speed bikes... and 24 speed bike parts are harder to find (don't know if they were lying or not.)

yankeefan

ICEN, flip a coin and buy a damn bike. You're sweating way too much over trivial stuff. Less than a week ago you wanted a bike to ride trails and short road distances, for which we recommended a hardtail MTB or hybrid. Now you're looking at road bikes! Figure out the type of riding you want to do and pull the trigger. A bike isn't simple just the sum of it's drivetrain components; you're forgetting other factors such as wheels, frame design (not simply the material but the actual design!), etc. that can influence the prices. Regardless, you're shopping at the lower end of the bike market -- you're likely not going to notice the difference between a well tuned 2300 drive train and a well tuned Sora drive train. There's really no reason to worry about which one shifts better. Tiagra though, is a noticeable step up from shimano entry level groupsets, especially the shifters!

dynaryder

LOG OFF THE FREAKIN' INTERNET AND GO TO YOUR LOCAL SHOPS AND RIDE SOME BIKES.

Stop trying to dig into the details of parts specs and actually ride some bikes to see what they're like. Just because a bike has cheaper parts doesn't mean they're junk. I've put plenty of hard miles on lower-end bikes without issues. And no amount of data is going to tell you how well a bike will actually fit you,or how you'll like the ride quality and handling. Go try some bikes so you can at least get an idea of what you want to buy.

Elvo

I used to be overly analytical and endlessly googled the differences between 105/Ultegra, Rival/Force, etc and found out that you are better off just riding your bike.

alcjphil

I second this: You can learn a lot from actually going out and shopping in real bike shops. You can touch and feel and you can actually ride a bike before you buy it. You can get useful advice from sales staff. You can get a beer idea about what will actually fit you. You are focusing far too much on individual components and not enough on finding the type of bike you need for the sort of riding you plan to do

BlazingPedals

... and beer ideas are the best ones!

ICEN

For $450 BD will give me better value then what I can find at a bike shop, I would be lucky to find **** for $450 and most likely would have to spend like $500 bare minimum unless I wanted a used bike that someone already put their sweaty buttcheck grease on, and most likely they would try selling me a $700 bike.

One thing is commonly known, and this is seen from multiple threads not only on this forum but from many bike forms. Lets say I seen over 20+ threads that all say this.

BD for $450 is going to give me something that I will most likely not be able to find at a bike shop that is selling things either more expensive or for the same price and worst parts.

I agree a bike shop is superior but for my price point of $450 and out of 20+ threads I seen on multiple websites and forums even the expert bike riders say that BD is good at giving you a better bike at a LOW PRICE RANGE, where Bike shops are superior when you want a real bike, by real bike I mean a $700+ bike that you can be fitted for ect.

But at $450 what will I get at a bike shop
A: Most likely no bike
B: They might push a used bike on me that I don't want because I don't buy "Used" I don't plan on riding something someones butthcheeks been on
C: I will get a bike for $450 there that is no better than a BD bike if not worst

I am not saying its impossible, some shop probably has a bike for $450 that is decent.

But I know from what I read on forums almost everyone has agreed that for low price points like $450 BD has a better value and you will probably get better components than at a bike shop for that price and at a bike shop you will have to spend more in general.

No I am not upping my price point because I can't and I am not the one paying.

I don't even have a bike shop in town, I have to travel like 1 hour away for a bike shop (its not bad)

I just don't think I should waist my time going to a bike shop based on what I read from so called expert riders saying that for a low price point BD will probably give you a better deal then what you would find at a bike shop unless you are willing to spend more.

I also find it funny how some of you say "Just pick a bike" as if its no big deal, just spend $450 on a bike and quit trying to see which is better.

Ya, that works out really well, whenever you spend half a grand on a bike and then 4 months later the derailleurs screw up and are skipping gears because someone told you "Just pick a bike and quit worrying about which is better"

Ya, that's why I do research because I make sure if I am buying something cheap I am going to get the BEST CHEAPO **** I can. Maybe some of you enjoy buying cheap crap without doing super research on it only to regret it but I am going to find the BEST of the BEST at that price point.

I will not settle for, oh its 3rd best, no, I will research to find which bike at $450 is the best at $450.

So yea don't tell me just choose a bike that is pretty dumb to say, that is basically saying, who really cares about the smaller details about which is more reliable or not, just pick one and quit trying to research which parts are better.

Yea because you know, you'll def pick the best bike when you just PICK ONE without seeing which is actually better.

SMH

That's why in real life I always have the best cheap stuff when I meet people, wither it be headphones, bikes, cheap guns, ect.

I find that I always have better stuff because I research which is the BEST.

Hey I am already on the LOW end of bikes, so your dang strait I am going to find the BEST I can, because if I am already in the low end then I have no choice but to make sure I am getting the BEST that I can at that price point.

Why would I want to just "Pick a bike already" only to have bike that is worst than something else I could have gotten but I was dumb and decided "Oh lets not look into which bike is better, I'll just pick one because I am too lazy to get into the details which could matter to me in the future"

Big whoops

I basically have done everything myself, I am not even sure half of you know anything about bikes.

I asked so many questions and only a few gave me answers to a certain extent.

Half of you don't even know which parts are better

I mean dang, I had to spend like hours researching which derailleurs/parts are better because nobody was giving me answers.

I came to forums looking for someone with answers so I don't have to spend all those hours on google.

But it looks like that's no the case, I usually get a 2 line answer like "This bike is better" with NO information on WHY with no information on the difference.

Instead I will get a watered down answer like "Oh the wheels are thinner"..... NO SHAT SHERLOCK!!!!! Tell me something that is not obvious.

Some of you gave me answers, but some of you didn't give me answers I was looking for or avoided some of the harder questions, and why is that? Most likely because some of you are the type to just "Buy a bike already" you got money so you don't have to care about if your bike is good or not because you can just go buy a $800 with your next paycheck, wreck it twice then buy it 4 more times.

Sorry that I am not rich and I want to make sure my bike is the best it can be.

This is literally the only thing I learned from the forum
- Bro pick a bike
- You can't compare bikes bro they are different bro
- some gears are different bro, just because its lower speed doesn't mean its slower bro (Never goes into detail just gives a no detailed answer).
- the bike will be more comfortable on long 8 hour rides bro (Cool story I never knew I asked about sleeping on my bike after 8 hours of riding)
- List price does not reflect actual price (Wow something I learned that didn't teach me much about anything other than jacking up fake prices)
- decide what bikes you are interested in bro!! (Then when I show bikes I looked at they reply and say you can't compare them because they are different).

Like what real info did I ever get thus far? I only got like a minority of real info that helped me learn anything other answers are like half answers that only lead to more questions because they didn't go into detail.

I swear, why did I even post this on the forum?

I have literally spent 8 hours maybe more just looking things up about bikes because I had to find out everything by myself even after making multiple threads asking half of the same crap that nobody gives the exact answers to.

Like I'm suppose to look at 30+ bikes and just magically know which ones are better???

Ya bro, just pick a bike already (Because you know I just want to pick a bike at random and run the risk of getting a garbage bike when I could have done research and bought a better deal or bike with better parts).

I mean I proved it, I researched the parts and said the cheaper bike had more expensive parts (The frame/forks are unknown in price) and a few people replied to me saying they don't even know if the parts or cheaper or not........

So lets get this strait, I only researched stuff about bike parts for around 8 hours or more and know which are cheaper or not, yet some of you who are suppose to be on these expensive bikes can't even know which bike has more expensive parts or not?

This has to be a joke...

I get some of you are probably experts on bikes, but I swear some of you are just probably old 60 year olds who bought a $1,200 bike and doesn't even know anything about bikes but just because you bought an expensive one you think you are a bike expert like the people who actually know about the parts on their bike.

Notice almost all my questions are about the parts and which parts are better.

Notice majority of the people cannot answer it because they seem to not be smart on the subject, yet I only googled it and within hours figured half of it out and I am a noob....

Please do not even give me answers unless your going to answer in full.

If I ask a question like "Which bike goes up hills better" do not reply with a dumb answer like "Well it depends, the one has low gearing"

OMG like really, can you be any more NOT SPECIFIC!!!!

WHY answer at all with these half answers that still leave me with no real answer or the answer to the WHYS.

The answers I get are answers that make me ask the same question again which proves the answer was never given.

Yea I am salty right now, its not directed to all of you but some of you crack me up when I get 12 year old answers, I thought Bike Forums where to learn about bikes not for me to do 100% of the research after asking a million questions with only 3 answers.

JanMM

Agree that you should just buy a modest bike and put a lot of miles on it. And use that riding to figure out what your next bike should be.

yankeefan

Would you like fries with that?

Somewhere in the middle of your self-entitled rant it became evidently clear that you fail to understand your position on the bike market - something we've been telling you but apparently it's not what you want to hear. At $450 all the bikes on Bikes Direct are essentially identical component wise and there is no objectively better bike - hence the mantra "just pick a bike". The only way you're going to figure out which bike is best for you is by owning and riding a bike, and using that experience to learn about your individual bike needs. Its absolutely pointless nitpicking components on a $450 bike. If one bike has a rear mech from a higher groupset its likely because they compromised by including boat anchor wheels instead of decent clincher rims. These are all entry-level bikes designed to get your foot through the door and bring cycling to a budget conscious consumer. Even the cheapest bike on bikes direct will last for years without problems if properly maintained - I have no idea where you got the delusion that lower-end groupsets/components are magically going to stop working after a couple months. That probably would have been the case if you bought the 40lb Schwinn from Target that you initially planned on buying but BD actually sells bikes, not pieces of steel molded into something vaguely resembling a bike and sold in department stores.

EDIT: I actually read the whole of the OP's rant (I only skimmed it before typing the above response) and whoever s/he is this person is a f***ing a-hole. Just to summarize (because it's not worth reading the whole thing) the OP is upset because we didn't quit our day jobs and hand-hold him/her throughout the entire bike purchasing process. OP wants bike shop level support for his/her first purchase but refuses to step foot into an actual bike shop. Do you want us to show you how to properly wear a helmet as well, or are you okay with spending 8+ hours researching it?

alcjphil

Life is too short to read this, If you want help,ask for it. Be specific about your needs. DO NOT RANT

CliffordK

At some point Shimano parts deteriorate from quite good to really bad. Perhaps it is incremental. Unfortunately I don't get to see them all, and end up seeing more of the extremes than the full range. I got some new Shimano Capreo hubs recently. The bearings were so rough. I blew out the cones within about 1000 miles. I now disassemble and polish my cones, hopefully to get both better performance and longevity.

$450 is a tough price point. Price out just an Ultegra Group Set, and you'll end up spending at least $600 and still need the wheels, tires, frame, and all the finishing.

To some extent, you can buy your $450 bike, then as any part needs replacing, pick up the next higher value part.

However, as someone else mentioned... 7 speed is somewhat limiting. Say you choose to jump to 10x2 later, you're likely replacing your hubs or wheels, chain, cassette, rear derailleur, and both shifters, and you're probably out as much or more cash as the whole bike cost new.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend going out and spending $5000 on a starter bike. Get something cheap that you can beat on for a few years, then upgrade to something better if you need later.

"Gravity" seems to be one of those unknown brands. Perhaps it is ok. Even name brands like Bianchi have a huge variation in quality, with Bianchi USA importing many of the bikes from Asia. However, the Tiagra component group and 10 speed seems like a big step up from the 7x3 with the Motobecane.

I have always used the traditional little bit larger fit. But, their chart for bike fit with the sloping top tube sounds a little intimidating, and I'd be careful picking out a big (or small) bike sight unseen.

Many people don't need a front triple crank on a road bike. So, I'd look at both the 20 Speed and 30 Speed bikes (leaning a bit towards 20 speed). Even the 9x systems (18 and 27 speed).

spdracr39

This is not Bikes R Us. Everyone here volunteers their time to offer advice not solutions. If you are a dumbass and can't be helped then too bad. All the SUGGESTIONS you were given were viable if you can't accept that too bad. Don't come here an throw a ***** fit just because you don't comprehend the answers. If you know NOTHING about bikes go to a professional bike shop and ask for answers, that is not what the forum is for but it is what the Local Bike Shop is for. Even if you ordered one of the bikes on Bikes Direct you would not have the knowledge to put it together so don't waste your money there. That is my rant and if you don't like it too bad. You are offically being place on the to much of an asshat to read his posts list.

alcjphil

+1 Mail order bikes cost less, but they do not necessarily offer all that much better value. A bike delivered to your door in a box isn't ready to ride. It requires assembly,adjustment, and tuning. Many mail order venders strongly suggest that assembly be done by a professional mechanic. If you do it yourself you have to know how a bike works. From your questions, you do not. That is why people are suggesting that you visit bike shops. You can learn a lot and guess what? Nobody can force you to buy something in a shop if you don't consider it to be good value. Think about warranty support. A shop sells you the bike ready to ride and is also the point where you go if you have a problem. You can't do bike repairs and adjustment over the internet. Often,a bike is only as good as the guy who puts it together. When I bought my first good bike it had a couple of problems which were quickly resolved by the shop where I bought it. The shop had the tools needed to fix the problems.

dynaryder

This is what I keep telling people about BD bikes;they're fine if you know what you're doing,but newbies should go to shops or co-ops so they can get a bike that's properly set up that they can actually ride first to see how it fits/rides/handles.

And yet you keep asking us questions.

Why indeed? I'm out of this and the other thread.