Deontologist

So I sprung for a Force 6 U-lock because it looked beefy. Plus it was 25 dollars shipped. It has an absolutely massive 19mm (thicker than the thickest Kryptonite) crossbar. The "6" stands for its 6 tons of pull resistance and it's also resistant to over 9 tons of cutting force. Impressive.

The only problem was that upon receipt I found that it used tubular keys.

Can Master Locks be picked with a bic pen? I would try but I don't have a Bic pen on hand and I don't feel like possibly damaging a lock I just might end up returning.

I know there was a recall but the Force 6 (and the Street cuffs and the force 5) didn't qualify for the recall. I'm hoping this is because they weren't affected and not that Master Lock cheaped out on us.

So, does anyone who has a Street Cuff, a Force 5, or a Force 6 Master Lock? And if so, have you ever been able to open your lock with a bic pen?

fietsbob

IDK try Picking it your self and see ..

My last 2 lock Buys were Abus the higher priced ones use a more complicated keying..


Did you read the Made in China Label ? they are cost cutting . that type probably was a bargain from their suppliers

most of what you paid is Profit Margins along the distribution chain .

Deontologist

Most of what I paid was shipping costs actually. The lock itself was 9 dollars. Shipping was 15 dollars.

And now that I've found a Bic pen, I'm going to have a go at this.

If I open this lock then this is going on YouTube and I'm hoping that Master Lock is going to send me a flat-key lock. I don't even want a flat-keyed Force 6. I'll gladly take a downgrade to the flat-keyed Force 3, which, can only withstand 3 tons (not 6 tons) of pulling force. Fine by me ... 3 tons ... 6 tons ... as long as my lock can't be picked first!

fietsbob

YGWYPF

these are $100 ABUS Folding Lock 6500/85 black (55160)

these some what less .. I have brought Both as the chain type reaches further .

note the complexity of a double row opposing pin locking cylinder , and the key that opens them ..

not all flat key locks are the same ..

axa defender, frame mounted ring lock , machines the side of the key and is another way of making a very hard to pick lock .
ABUS Lock-Chain Combination 685/75 black Shadow (43308)
With It i have a Chain RLC 140*-*axa-stenman that secures the front wheel &

the bike to a solid rack or steel sign post ant it secures in the ring lock .



$9.00 lock , for a $90 bike ..

Deontologist

Well, I sacrified three different pens for this experiment but none of them (and the caps) would fit into the damn keyhole. The little cylinder in the middle was too big; it just blocked me from sticking a bic pen in there.

So the Master Lock is off to a good start right off the bat.

I might try melting a pen to get it to go around the cylinder ... but for now, I'll sleep easy with my 9 dollar lock! The Master Lock street cuffs use a similar locking mechanism and were similarly excluded from the recall by Master Lock, and there is only one video of it being picked open. By a guy with tools. And he had to mount it facing toward him and it took him a few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnBOoOdA54

I figure that by mounting the lock so that the keyhole points toward the ground no one's going to bother me by lying on the ground face up at a lock with a pickset in the middle of a crowded bike rack. Even if they try a bic pen, it ain't gonna fit!

I would usually agree that you get what you paid for but this appears to be an exception. I'll sleep securely knowing that my 1000 dollar bike has been locked up with this 9 dollar lock.

Heck, I used to lock my bike up with a POS lock from Walmart (the Bell one in the middle). I trust that the Master Lock will be marginally more secure than the former at the very least.

But rest assured, this isn't over yet. I will continue to see if I can compromise this Master Lock via bic pen ...

Stucky

Master locks generally suck. I think they're only function is to keep mostly-honest people honest. They're pretty much useless against real thieves.

OP, are you an experienced lock-picker? If no, then the fact that you can't pick it would mean little.

I have a feeling a cordless die grinder or sawzall would slice through the thing like butter. Seems they put more effort into making cheap locks *look* beefy, so that non-criminal consumers will *think* they're good; rather than putting effort into actually making a lock that really works.

I'd also bet, that for Master locks, there are probably only a handful of different key profiles- so that a thief witjh a key collection or a master-key could open the thing in mere seconds, without even arousing suspicion.

Stucky

Sometimes, that can be sound logic- like, I have my top-opening safe mounted to the floor in such a way that the lock faces a wall, with just enough room to get the key in- it would be difficult/not enough room to operate a pick and stuff....but with your lock, as long as there's a few inches between the ground and the lock, the thief doesn't need to lay on the ground. You can pick a lock by feel; even if you have eye-level access, you can't see what's going on inside anyway.

And forget the Bic pen thing! Real thieves use picks- whether actual picks, or home-made alternatives. No Master lock is going to thwart a real thief. A really good lock may slow him down or make him move to easier pickings [no pun intended!].

wahoonc

I would be willing to bet 90-120 seconds using a side grinder with a cutting blade... faster than picking.

Aaron

Deontologist

Probably. That's about how long the Kryptonite Faghettabduit lasted. The Master Lock is actually 1 mm thicker than the Kryptonite.

cale

Noisy and cord powered. A side (angle) grinder doesn't make the best tool for theft. Sounds more like a lab experiment.

wahoonc

They make battery powered grinders now. Noise is not an issue. Ever seen the videos of people stealing bikes in broad daylight on city streets? Happens a lot. If the thief acts like they know what they are doing no one questions them and they are done and gone in under 3 minutes.

Aaron

wahoonc

I would be interested to see the metallurgy of the Master Lock, somehow I don't think it will be all that great, based on previous experience with Master Lock products.

Aaron

cale

Or not and caught.

Deontologist

Well, I don't know how strong the metal is, but if it's anything like this Master Lock, then I'll be satisfied.

This is a Force 3 Master Lock ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pITRfEHKyUw

In any case, I've got some matches from work today and I'll be seeing if I can melt a bic pen without burning myself or poisoning myself ...

Deontologist

I think I'll go check on my bike right now (since it's actually locked outside). I'd actually be happy if someone were trying to steal it ... I'd unlock the Master Lock for them and beat the hell out of them with it. It's heavy enough to be used as a kettlebar. It's also heavy enough to be concerning when threaded through the wheel and resting on the spokes ... I really hope it doesn't bend my spokes.

gsa103

Grinders are an automatic "I win" button vs any lock. I would imagine that grinders are faster that trying to pick basically any lock. The main thing is a lock that can survive prying or bolt-cutters.

JanMM

Was there a Master Lock recall, or are you referring to the kryptonite recall of long ago?

Deontologist

There was a Master Lock recall, and it seems to have been spearheaded by people on this forum right here. However my lock (Force 6, tubular keyhole) was excluded along with the cuffs and the Force 5.

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cy...tml#post657383

What there has not been is one shred of evidence that a Master Lock Force 5, 6, or street cuff has been picked open by a bic pen. An old Force 3 - yes - fell to the bic pen attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-LWGJzglho

wahoonc

So get an 8 ton jack...

All bike locks can be defeated.

Aaron

Fly2High

SO let me ask the obvious question.

In most lock related threads there are all comments to the fact that they can be defeated by one method or another.

So what should this person, or any of us do?

Do all nay sayers simply leave their bikes unlocked?

What I would like to hear is what HAS been successful so if this person or any of the thread readers can instead of getting what NOT to buy, get what is better than most.

If you have had experience with this lock and have been defeated then please post so this person can learn from what happened to you. Otherwise, I would expect all of us to know that any lock is not perfect but better than nothing.

Sure, everything can be gotten through but all you can hope for is that the thief finds the adjacent bike easier and more desireable.

thanks


By the way, best of luck with your Master lock. Being that I still do not have one, it is better than what I have.

Frank

Fly2High

If it helps, this is what another poster in another thread said about the Force 6 and a message from Masterlock

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cy...tml#post634486

Stucky

Understand that pretty much all locks are easily defeated by professional thieves- so do0n't leave your good bikes on the street or anywhere else where you can not see them or where a criminal will have access to them. Realize that locks are primarily to keep regular people honest; they will stop a non-professional thief who might be tempted to just walk off with an unlocked bike- but I am not aware of any lock which will stop or even slow-down much a real thief who has a few basic tools.

The only time a lock is impenetrable is when it's yours and you forget/lose the key. Then, miraculously, no one can open it

Deontologist

I know that ... I just wanted to know whether in the intervening 10+ years since the pen trick whether anyone has violated a master lock force 5, 6, or street cuff. Given that there still is no evidence but just speculation and truisms about how every lock is vulnerable in some way, I'll sleep soundly using my lock. Yes, it can be cut, but probably only with power tools, and at that point, I'll just fall back on it's 2500 dollar insurance. Also I'm not expecting anyone to be carrying around power tools in broad day on a busy university campus.

Also, I think it bears mentioning that not all tubular locks are vulnerable, according to some online sources. Perhaps mine is one.I hope I never have to find out.

The only video I've found of a Master lock tubular lock being compromised is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnBOoOdA54

Which makes me wonder: if he could have unlocked it with a Bic pen, why didn't he just do that instead of screwing around with the real tools? And even as he said, the Cuff isn't like an usual tubular lock and requires a lot of tension to pick.

----
In any case if anyone is interested in getting the Force 6 just be aware that the space inside the shackle is very narrow ... i have trouble squeezing my 23c wheels and frame inside the shackle with a thin bike lockpost. My frame tubes are THIN too ... they're teardrop shaped and not much thicker than the wheels (not like the massive rounded square tubes you see nowadays).

Lock envy. I want a Cuff now!

Deontologist

Okay as promised I have tested my Force 6 ... here is one in a series of tests I hope to perform.

As stated before a regular bic pen barrel won't even fit into the lock. So I cut the bic pen a few times so it can expand and fit into the lock. Sure enough these cuts helped the barrel expand and fit into the key way.

However, when I turned the bic pen, it broke. Using the key requires quite a bit of force; even with some light lubrication the force needed to unlock is substantial. I'm not surprised that the pen broke.

I will try again with other bic pens and perhaps cut them fewer times so they don't break so easily. A few other observations:

This tubular lock's key has a little protrusion which has to be lined up exactly when sliding the key into the key way. I don't think a bic pen can mimic this. I'm curious as to whether the bic-pennable Kryptonites had this little protrusion on the key. Where the affected Kryptonite keys (and related locks) purely round or did they have a bump that forced you to insert the pen in a certain orientation?

This tubular lock's key also has a variety of cut heights ... and from what I can see, the bic pen wasn't able to mimic any single one of these cuts. Perhaps heat will help the pen conform. I'll try warming the pen with a match next time too.



Note the indentation in the key way. Do you think a Bic pen can easily mimic this?

erig007

just google tubular lock
images there say it all