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  1. #1
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    Has Anyone Seen My Form?

    It has become fully apparent that I have lost my form. I know it went missing sometime over the winter and I'm thinking (though not accusing) Psi might have taken it at the holiday party.

    Either he took it or it's fallen between the cushions on the couch or maybe I left it hanging off the back of one of my bar stools. Anyway, if you find it, please return it, there's a reward.

    I am off about 20% on power compared to last year. About 290 watts last year, from the St. Pats ride 240 watts. Also, my pedal stroke is destroyed (even worse than usual) as normal from push platforms over the winter ... 26% pedal index last year, 21% now. Eek!

    Data Value Unit
    Duration 1:04:19
    Sampling Rate 1 s
    Cycling Efficiency 22.0 %

    Energy Expenditure 916 kcal
    Number of Heart Beats 10100 beats
    Recovery -40 beats
    Minimum Heart Rate 87 bpm
    Average Heart Rate 157 bpm
    Maximum Heart Rate 171 bpm
    Standard Deviation 7.2 bpm

    Minimum Speed 1.2 mph
    Average Speed 19.8 mph
    Maximum Speed 30.2 mph
    Distance 21.3 miles
    Odometer 38 miles

    Minimum Cadence 30 rpm
    Average Cadence 90 rpm
    Maximum Cadence 112 rpm
    Coasting Time 0:05:15 (8.2 %)
    Coasting Distance 1.5 miles (6.9 %)

    Minimum Altitude 761 ft
    Average Altitude 810 ft
    Maximum Altitude 863 ft
    Ascent 381 ft
    Descent 482 ft
    VAM 355 ft/h

    Minimum Power 2 Watts
    Average Power 237 Watts
    Average Power (0 W incl.) 217 Watts
    Maximum Power 648 Watts
    Pedaling Index Average 21 %
    Pedaling Index Maximum 44 %
    Left Right Balance Average L50 - 50R Left - Right
    Left Right Balance Maximum L85 - 15R Left - Right


    On the good news, I re-injured my knee slightly last year playing tennis. After that my power dropped on the right side to 53 left, 47 right. As the data shows now, I am back to 50:50 and the knee feels great.

    If I could just get the 6# refrigerator off my back and find my form again ... all would be good.

  2. #2
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    Bah... you're still faster than me.
    Gelato aficionado.

  3. #3
    samoots
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    meh, it's only march. let's see how you're doing in july

  4. #4
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    Average Speed 19.8 mph

    Dude. It's March. Yesterday was windy as all get out. You're fine.

    Sandbagging right now with that speed is useless.

    And just for comparison, I was getting dropped by the very in-shape Psimet yesterday on a late afternoon 30 mile windy route. Thought I must be going 15 mph average. We got back in around 18.4 average, which was tons better than I had anticipated. So form schmorm. It's March.

  5. #5
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    There's no hope. Give up now.
    Bring the pain.

  6. #6
    Senior Member John Wilke's Avatar
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    I smell a set up ...


    PelotonStar.Com. . . Your source of Midwest cycling news!

    Peloton-Pix.Com . . . Your source of Midwest racing photos! *SALE THRU MAY 2*
    Peloton Tees . . . Cool cycling swag.

  7. #7
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyLowe97 View Post
    Average Speed 19.8 mph

    Dude. It's March. Yesterday was windy as all get out. You're fine.

    Sandbagging right now with that speed is useless.

    And just for comparison,
    I was getting dropped by the very in-shape Psimet yesterday on a late afternoon 30 mile windy route. Thought I must be going 15 mph average. We got back in around 18.4 average, which was tons better than I had anticipated. So form schmorm. It's March.
    I don't know what you're talking about....I seem to have no pulse.

    CC...you do not lie well. Sandbagger....

  8. #8
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    CC's going to lose more form now that he's got to rush to Lance's side to tip the 7 Time Tour Winner in on how a fella old enough to draw Social Security can recover from a broken collar bone in time for the big hill climbing ride he's been looking forward to all season.

  9. #9
    Senior Member cyclpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyLowe97 View Post
    Average Speed 19.8 mph


    Jens is the reason why Waldo is hiding

  10. #10
    It is what it is Sage23's Avatar
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    Ah come on guys . . . there's clearly an explanation:



  11. #11
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    I like the fact that they bothered to put pedals on that thing.
    Bring the pain.

  12. #12
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    You guys are a riot. I clearly demonstrate I'm 20% slower and I get the sandbag tag ... damn ... "Can't win for losing!" LOL.

  13. #13
    samoots
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorChange View Post
    You guys are a riot. I clearly demonstrate I'm 20% slower and I get the sandbag tag ... damn ... "Can't win for losing!" LOL.
    just because your wattage is down doesn't necessarily mean you're slower, does it?

    what was your avg. speed on last year's ride?

  14. #14
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    On flat ground, 20% drop in power corresponds to something closer to a 10% drop in speed.

    Not that anyone asked.
    Bring the pain.

  15. #15
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    Hey Niets, I didn't do last years ride so can't do a "back-back" comparison. If we ride Penny tonight I can do a more direct comparison.

    Trust me ... I'm plenty slower ... Psi's gonna spank my fat, slow, old booty!

  16. #16
    samoots
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    Quote Originally Posted by recursive View Post
    On flat ground, 20% drop in power corresponds to something closer to a 10% drop in speed.

    Not that anyone asked.
    not that i'm trying to debate because i clearly don't know enough about all of this, but couldn't things like position on bike, aero wheels/frame/misc. parts allow for lower power output for somewhat equivalent speed a la TT bikes?

  17. #17
    Banned. timmyquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nietsmas View Post
    not that i'm trying to debate because i clearly don't know enough about all of this, but couldn't things like position on bike, aero wheels/frame/misc. parts allow for lower power output for somewhat equivalent speed a la TT bikes?
    Yes. Though CC is still riding the same sexy bike he always does, as far as i know.

  18. #18
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nietsmas View Post
    not that i'm trying to debate because i clearly don't know enough about all of this, but couldn't things like position on bike, aero wheels/frame/misc. parts allow for lower power output for somewhat equivalent speed a la TT bikes?
    Yes. I should have also said:

    Assuming one is travelling fast enough that air resistance is the dominant form of drag, and that the aerodynamic profile and conditions are not changing between trials.
    Or something like that.
    Bring the pain.

  19. #19
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    This is an interesting detour ... I'm collecting data to elucidate. Back in a few.

  20. #20
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    OK, a nice detour but let's jump in.

    Here is data from a 4/29 Tuesday night ride last year. I was recovering from torn meniscus in my right knee and hadn't ridden much in the prior 5 months.

    Data Value Unit
    Duration 1:29:26
    Sampling Rate 1 s
    Cycling Efficiency 21.9 %

    Energy Expenditure 1302 kcal
    Number of Heart Beats 13864 beats
    Recovery -30 beats
    Minimum Heart Rate 88 bpm
    Average Heart Rate 155 bpm
    Maximum Heart Rate 221 bpm
    Standard Deviation 13.5 bpm

    Minimum Speed 1.2 mph
    Average Speed 19.5 mph
    Maximum Speed 39.2 mph
    Distance 29.1 miles
    Odometer 253 miles

    Minimum Cadence 29 rpm
    Average Cadence 91 rpm
    Maximum Cadence 120 rpm
    Coasting Time 0:20:32 (23.0 %)
    Coasting Distance 6.5 miles (22.2 %)

    Minimum Altitude 689 ft
    Average Altitude 787 ft
    Maximum Altitude 853 ft
    Ascent 1260 ft
    Descent 1283 ft
    VAM 845 ft/h

    Minimum Power 1 Watts
    Average Power 280 Watts
    Average Power (0 W incl.) 210 Watts
    Maximum Power 763 Watts
    Pedaling Index Average 24 %
    Pedaling Index Maximum 85 %
    Left Right Balance Average L50 - 50R Left - Right
    Left Right Balance Maximum L93 - 7R Left - Right

    Significant numbers to me, avg hr 155, avg power 280 watts, avg speed 19.5.


    Here is data from late in the season, same Tuesday night ride, September 30th. (lost 8 weeks with broken collarbone).

    Data Value Unit
    Duration 1:21:08
    Number of Selections 2
    Sampling Rate 1 s
    Cycling Efficiency 24.9 %

    Number of Heart Beats 12010 beats
    Minimum Heart Rate 73 bpm
    Average Heart Rate 148 bpm
    Maximum Heart Rate 168 bpm

    Minimum Speed 3.2 mph
    Average Speed 21.1 mph
    Maximum Speed 36.6 mph
    Distance 28.5 miles
    Odometer 1824 miles

    Minimum Cadence 30 rpm
    Average Cadence 93 rpm
    Maximum Cadence 115 rpm
    Coasting Time 0:14:36 (18.0 %)
    Coasting Distance 5.0 miles (17.6 %)

    Minimum Altitude 682 ft
    Average Altitude 774 ft
    Maximum Altitude 833 ft
    Ascent 1161 ft
    Descent 1142 ft

    Minimum Power 1 Watts
    Average Power 282 Watts
    Average Power (0 W incl.) 226 Watts
    Maximum Power 772 Watts
    Pedaling Index Average 26 %
    Pedaling Index Maximum 100 %
    Left Right Balance Average L53 - 47R Left - Right
    Left Right Balance Maximum L90 - 10R Left - Right


    Here we have avg hr 148, avg power 282 watts, avg speed 21.1.

    Now my recent St. Pats ride was avg hr 157, avg power 237 watts, avg speed 19.8.

    I like to look at average hr and what power that hr generates. I call this roughly form.

    So, to summarize:
    avg hr: avg power

    early season last year 155:280

    late season 148:282

    St. Pats (now) 157:237.

    Yikes ... now do you see why I'm worried


    PS, OK, I'll empty one of my sandbags ... lol


    It's not quite as bad as it first looks. I am comparing power without accounting for drafting. The avg power numbers I have used don't include coasting, which you do much more in the pace line than you can riding solo (like the St. Pats ride).

    So here is the comparison using 0 included average power numbers.

    early season last year 155:210

    late season 148:226

    St. Pats 157:217


    But, the St. Pats was only 20 miles while the Tuesday ride is 29 miles ... so I am overstating my St. Pats form.


    So ... still worse but hopefully not a disaster. I think I'm ahead of last season (and over 10- lbs lighter than last year), but off of last year late season (with 5 more pounds [dropped one ])


    Boy you guys are never ever gonna ask me a data question are you ... LOL!
    Last edited by ColorChange; 03-24-09 at 09:13 AM.

  21. #21
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    So here is the comparison using 0 included average power numbers.
    You have to include the zeroes. Anything else is bogus.
    Bring the pain.

  22. #22
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    That was one of my sandbags man ...

  23. #23
    Banned. timmyquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recursive View Post
    You have to include the zeroes. Anything else is bogus.
    Is that generally how average power's are measured?

  24. #24
    samoots
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    i'd think the lower body weight helps to translate into lower power output required to maintain the same avg. speed.

  25. #25
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    Timmy
    Well, it's often said that good riders don't pedal more ... they pedal harder. So in most of my training I like to look at the numbers without zeros. This better approximates race conditions.

    For comparing pace line rides to non pace line rides, you need to include the zeros. Even then, it's not a great comparison because the aerobic strain is different, steady drag riding solo, peaky riding pace line.

    Niets
    In my case the higher weight is pure fat so negligible power effect. When someone is truly slim, weight can affect power output but I've got a long way to go ... hey ... is that fourth case of girl scout cookies for me too?
    Last edited by ColorChange; 03-24-09 at 09:26 AM.

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