PSYS

I need some serious help here. No, I'm serious. Stop laughing. So my wife got me a new wheel set as an early birthday present for me. Hooray! I got them in the mail today.

I have a 2014 Trek 8.2 DS with an el cheapo freewheel. I replaced the stock suspension fork with an aftermarket rigid fork and have slowly resorted to turning my DS into an FX. The wheelset I purchased came with Shimano Ultegra 6800 hubs that says they're compatible with Shimano 7,8,9,10 & 11-speed cassette. I'm thinking about upgrading to a 10-speed cassette. (wheel specs / photos below)

I know I need to remove the free wheel & upgrade to a cassette in order to use these wheels. In addition to that, am I now needing to upgrade and replace the ENTIRE drivetrain by going up to a speed 10-speed drivetrain? i.e., cassette, derailleurs, shifters, chain, bottom bracket? After my wife sings Happy Birthday to me, then she's going to kill me when I tell her what this new wheelset is going to cost me.

In addition to ALL of that, do I then also need new brakes and a crankset, too?
I'm more or less looking to see what I need to purchase so I can piece meal this thing together.
After looking at various parts on eBay, I'd like to try and use Shimano 105 components.
One thing I am having difficulty with right off the bat are compatible flat-bar shifters.

Help?




** images courtesy of Velo **

32 hole H + Plus Son Archetype machined sidewall rims
23mm wide x 25mm deep
DT Swiss - Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes
Shimano Ultegra 6800 32 Hole Hubs
Shimano and SRAM 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 Speed Compatible
1088 grams rear // 883 grams front WEIGHT WITHOUT SKEWERS
Shimano Skewers Included
700c Clincher
700x23-35 Tires Fit
130mm rear spacing.
100mm Standard Spacing on front

JG1967

If you stay with the same setup you have now and not upgrade to a 10speed cassette you will save yourself a lot of money. I just upgraded my bike to a 10speed and found it was easier to buy a whole groupset, ie chain/cassette/derailures/and shifters. I kept my stock disc brakes. Total cost was a little less than $400.00. I bought MTB components, specifically XT. Check out Chainreaction Cycles, that's where I got my stuff.

ColonelSanders

You might have an issue with your rear spacing as I believe the DS models come with a 135mm rear spacing.

Whether this can be sorted out with a new axle and/or spacers, I just don't know enough to answer that.

giantcfr1

I'd say all you need are shifters and cassette. I went through this years ago when Sheldon Brown was on the forums, and he cut through the fear mongering that most members posted. Usually chain rings and chains can go up or down one speed. Your rear derailleur still swings the same width. Pretty sure your actuation ratio is the same.

PSYS

Good to know and I agree..... there does appear to be a bit of fear mongering Internet-wide. Lots of naysayers and "You-should-probably-just-buy-a-new-bike" people.

My next hurdle is one that the Colonel referenced above which is the discrepancy in the rear spacing.
I thought I had done my due diligence before purchasing these and I now stand corrected.
My DS does in fact have 135mm spacing in the rear while the wheelset has 130mm.
I'm guessing this is going to require some modification and/or additional purchase or worse case scenario - I need to return them.

corwin1968

I would just go with 9-speed. I think the only thing you would need to buy is a cassette and shifter. Everything else should work. I'm no expert but I've mixed and matched 7 and 9 speed components with no problems.

PSYS

CORWIN:

Thanks for the reply. Yes, she bought them from Velomine and they have a 60-day return policy if the item is unused.
I shot them an e-mail first thing this morning to see if they have a 'better-than-stock' wheelset on hand with 135mm rear spacing + 100mm front spacing that I could exchange.
If not, I may need to return them all together.

The "oh-no-my-new-wheels-are-130mm-and-my-bike-has-135mm-spacing" discussion appears to be a popular one online that I've searched.
Some say add a couple of 2.5mm spacers on each side or a 5mm spacer on one side and be done with it.
Others have indicated the bike will explode into a fiery ball hotter than the sun if one attempts that.

I don't have the mechanical knowledge to know how to proceed, but I know I don't want the integrity of the bike to suffer.
I made the upgrade to make the bike more efficient and reliable... not to weaken it.

Wanderer

You will need a new shifter to go to 9 or 10 spd, and may or may not need a new DR. Chain will have to match the speeds you are going to, but easily and cheaply resolved. If it were me, I'd return them for the right wheel set, but it will work with spacers.

105 DR are reasonably cheap, and work very well, just make sure you get what you need cassette and big ring size (make sure it will take up needed tooth difference slack.)

You will love going to 9 or 10 spd, for more gear choices...

And, I wouldn't tell her how much it cost me to make it right, just keep repeating how much nicer the wheels and extra gears are for you!

andrei_r

What I would do (the cheapest option):

Buy an 8-speed cassette.
Buy the 8-speed right shifter-brake lever combo (I presume you have the shimano ST-EF51 levers, they come in both 7 and 8 speed, so your left and right levers will still match).

Keep the chain, keep the crank, keep the left shifter, keep the derailleurs... That's it. That should cost you around 30$.

If you go for a 9 speed, I'd suggest you change the chain (7 speed chain on a 9 speed cassette can be a little troublesome) and both shifters (for cosmetic reasons).

About the wheel spacing, the 2x2.5mm spacer option seems more viable to me the the fireball hotter than the sun one... Or if you can exchange the wheelset without too much hassle, do it...

corwin1968

I think you are on the right track in your thinking. I'm like you, I know enough to sort of ask the right questions but not enough to dig into the details like your spacing issue and sometimes I miss things. I like to be on the safe side and I would just get a wheel with the correct spacing. If they sell the wheels seperately, maybe you could just return the rear wheel and get a new one. Front spacing of 100mm is pretty standardized until you get into fat-bike territory and the one you have is fine.

PSYS

I'm going to call Velomine on my lunch break today and see what they say. I'd just assume exchange the rear as you mentioned which seems like the best route. It's definitely not an emergency and I'd rather do things right the first time. 135mm rear spacing seems to be more common for MTB / cyclocross applications. I don't think my rear wheel variety will be as vast as the road wheel variety, but I really need to double-check with them.

I thought for sure I had all my ducks in a row... so I'm a little bummed I missed this. meh.

Ajh800

Your Mrs has good taste, H Plus Son Archetype rims are good, strong and suit the swing towards wider tyres i.e. 28mm, very comfortable.

My Mrs didn't even consider buying me anything remotely comparable.

PSYS

Unfortunately, I have two local LBS shops advising against trying to mount these wheels on my Trek DS. I'm so bummed.

I also received a reply from Steve at Velomine who said:

"Scott,
Unfortunately, there is no safe way to use a 5mm spacer with this application.
The axle isn’t long enough, and the new Shimano 6800 Ultegra axles aren’t the standard design so it isn’t possible to install a wider axle.
I would recommend the wheels be returned for a refund."

I appreciate him being open and honest with me... but now I'm bummed.
I was really looking forward to this upgrade.

Doing a quick search, I do not see many options for a 135mm rear space wheel. Seems like most are mountain bike applications.

DorkDisk

I would start with 135mm wheels. Newer ultegra hubs use a solid axle with endcaps so you may have to get MTB hubs. or maybe you can find 135mm axle and end caps for them?

If you want to upgrade your drivetrain, you can go up to 9sp MTB without changing the rear derailleur. Just add a new shifter and chain. 10 sp on will require a new rear derailleur and will probably work with your current crankset but unless its a nice one, I personally would swap it out. 10 speed ideally requires a different crankset meta than 8sp triple.

You dont need new brakes unless your shifters are integrated to your levers and you want to add more clicks to your rear shifting. I would go ahead and run some new brake pads so that you dont scuff your new rims with old rim bits embedded in old pads.

May I suggest you just trying a close ratio cassette (12-28 ish) with the same number of gears you have now? With your current wide range triple crankset, this should provide a very adequate drivetrain. You can see how it feels and use that experience to judge how best to upgrade later on. Ridingwise, there is not much difference between 8 and 9sp. 9sp gave us a lower bailout gear over the cynical 11t "innovation" of 8sp but the main difference nowadays is in quality. Modern 8sp stuff is stamped steel with a plastic fairing, if you want quality stuff now 9sp is where it begins, at Deore which also comes in 10sp.

Ive run a few mismatched drivetrains since the 7 to 8sp conversion (I currently run the following

7sp shifter, 8sp f der + crankset + cassette, 9sp r der + chain
8 sp shifter + cassette, 9sp derailleurs + chain, 10sp crankset
7sp shifter, 5sp cassette + crank + chain, 8sp chainrings
7sp suntour shifter, 7sp shimano the rest

PSYS

Thanks a lot for all that info!!

Maybe I'm not doing the right searching or using the right verbiage, but I can't find much for option for a 135mm rear wheelset with a standard 100mm in the front.
There just doesn't appear to be much out there.

Am I missing something here?

DorkDisk

100mm/10mm QR is a standard hub that has been used by mountain bikes and road bikes since 6sp days. Modern MTBs use oversized hollow axles that address the issue of lawyer tabs, quick releases, and hydraulic disc brakes.

135mm/9mm QR is a standard rear hub first used by MTBs on the migration to 8sp. Road bikes went from 126 to 130mm. This is the main difference, 135mm is a MTB standard. Modern MTB hubs use hollow axles here too and have moved on to 142mm. Also, MTB has move on to disk brakes. A non disc 135 QR hub has not been the standard for MTB in a while now.

The rims you want are a 700c rim. While 700c and 29" have the same rim diameter, they do have different widths. Most 29" MTB rims are too wide and too heavy for road use so watch the rim width before you order a 29er wheelset

Basically you're combining an outdated MTB hub with a road rim. Most pre-made wheels will be for either MTB or road. It is possible that they have one in the 29" section or tell them what you want although 29ers became trendy after the QR and rim brake standard was dead so finding that will be a challenge

That website shows this: New Velocity Blunt 35 29er Wheelset Black XT Hubs 6 Bolt 32h [74493] - $229.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

Those hubs with different rims is what you need

PSYS

OK. Thanks for the thorough explanation! I appreciate you breaking it down for me like that.
I see exactly what I need, but in a road bike application - it doesn't sound like it exists.
I'm essentially attempting to turn my DS into a FX and/or road bike and the bike wants nothing to do with it.

I need 700c wheels with a 135mm rear hub and as you mentioned, I'm finding one or the other.
An aftermarket hybrid / frankenstein road wheel with 135mm rear MTB hubs does not exist.

ColonelSanders

This mob might be able to help you out.

Shimano-Mavic Ultegra 6800 | CXP 33 - Clincher Wheelset - QR

JG1967

You can make the DS a better road bike but as for turning it into a FX that's a stretch. The DS was built/designed around MTB components so that's what you will need to use. When I did my upgrades I chose not to change wheels because I didn't feel the cost for the small increase in performance was worth it.