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  1. #1
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    Anything about this bike you guys can tell me?

    Having to buy sight unseen.

    Uses - daily commute 8 miles round. Occasional 15-25 mile rides. Maybe a little further down the road.

    I love the internal hub - at least I think I will.

    I'm on the heavier side (posted this on the clyde forum too)

    Thanks for whatever you can tell me.
    http://www.marinbikes.com/2010/bike_...serialnum=1646


    Or for half price and order my own fenders.

    http://www.marinbikes.com/2010/bike_...?serialnum=199

    Basically, I'd be paying for that 8 speed internal. The half price bike has 21 speeds. Hmm - help me make this decision
    Last edited by episodic; 07-28-10 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Old, SLOW bike rider! ;)
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    8 Speeds would be fine for just "commuting" but IF your going to get "out there" for 25 mile rides+, I'd go for the multi-speed derailered bike, jmho. We bought MTB's (hardtail), turned them into "road/touring" hybrids and IF you get into a bunch of hills on your 25 mile ride, I think the 8 speed internal hub would be really limited for a good ride, again, jmho, ymmv! (PS: Mines a 24 Speed and I find I use most of the gears except the extreems quite a bit).
    Take care, RIDE SAFE, have FUN!
    B.J. Ondo
    1993 Mongoose Switchback MTB, being converted to a "comfort bike"! :)

  3. #3
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    The cheaper bike appeals to me much more than the trendy one. 21 speed vs. 8 means wider range of gearing and smaller gaps between gears. Derailleur system weighs less than IGH and works fine. If they were the same price, I'd still choose the Kentfield.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by episodic View Post
    Having to buy sight unseen.... Hmm - help me make this decision
    Will it fit you properly?
    That is the (first, and most important) question.

  5. #5
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    I ride 17 frame fuji crosstown - so similar I hope?

  6. #6
    Sumerian Street Rider khutch's Avatar
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    I looked at Marin bikes this spring. They look pretty good on paper. I sat on a San Anselmo at the local REI one night but by the time we got to it, it was too late for me to test ride it. Before I got back to REI I visited my LBS and got turned onto the Fuji I ended up with. Not much experience with Marin then but they looked good in person too, the San Anselmo fit me well, and they have a good reputation. If you have an REI near you some of them stock some Marin models. Check the nearest REI and they may have something on a similar frame you could look over and test ride even if they don't have the exact models you are looking at.

    I would tend to agree that while the IGH is great for commuting and fine for the occasional 25 miler, if you want to do 25 miles more and more often and want to go beyond that distance you would probably appreciate the derailleur model more. If you split the difference in price Marin probably has a nicer, similar derailleur model you could go with too.

    Ken

  7. #7
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    I ended up getting the cheaper one. It should be here next week. Thanks for all the advice!

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    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjjoondo View Post
    8 Speeds would be fine for just "commuting" but IF your going to get "out there" for 25 mile rides+, I'd go for the multi-speed derailered bike, jmho. We bought MTB's (hardtail), turned them into "road/touring" hybrids and IF you get into a bunch of hills on your 25 mile ride, I think the 8 speed internal hub would be really limited for a good ride, again, jmho, ymmv! (PS: Mines a 24 Speed and I find I use most of the gears except the extreems quite a bit).
    You're assuming that the RANGE of gears on the 8 speed is significantly lower. This is wrong - the gears are spaced wider than a derailer system can manage. People use those hubs for real MTBing; the range is very good.

  9. #9
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    How many gears you need depends on how and where you ride.
    Having 27 gears (like me) doesn't mean you actually have 27 gears as most of them overlap.
    So taking that into acount I probably have about 17 usable gears.
    A 24-speed drivetrain has about 15 usable gears, which is still almost double of the 8-speed.
    But, as meanwhile pointed out, this has nothing to do with the range ... the range of the internal gearhub is probably about the same as the gearsystems mentioned above.
    If you want to go as fast as possible and want to keep your pedaling cadence at a perfect rate ... having a lot of intermediate gears is a good thing.
    If you just want to bike and do not care about speed or efficiency, it's not going to make a huge difference.

  10. #10
    Sumerian Street Rider khutch's Avatar
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    The Alfine hub has a range of 307%, the derailleur system on the Marin bike above is 343%. That is significant to me, maybe not to others. You can certainly do better than that with commonly available derailleur components. The stock derailleur system on my Fuji is 375% and that is hardly the upper limit. It would be easy to push it to 424% and 484% is doable. It may not be practical to do better than the Rolhoff's 526% with a derailleur system but a rear derailleur with a Schlumpf High Speed Drive will blow it away. In any event the comments made about the better range of the derailleur system on these two specific Marin bikes stand, the derailleur does have more range than the Alfine. The difference is enough to be welcome on a long, hilly ride in my opinion.

    I don't remember the numbers but if this Marin IGH model came with the new Alfine 11 speed the story might be different.

    Ken

    ON EDIT: Ooops, I was wrong. I see that Marin's own Nail Trail 29er gets a 618% range from ordinary derailleur components and I don't know that that is the limit, it is just the first (and last) Marin MTB model I checked. So some IGH bikes may have more range than some derailleur bikes but it certainly don't have to be that way and in most cases a low range derailleur system could be upranged by changing the rear cassette. As Sheldon Brown teaches I have even built custom cassettes by disassembling standard cassettes and it is as easy as he says. You just have to respect the chain wrap and largest cog limits of your rear derailleur, or be willing to change it to a wider range model.
    Last edited by khutch; 07-29-10 at 09:49 AM.

  11. #11
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    Wow - you guy's conversations are way over my head

    From my 'comprehension clues' in this particular case, the bike I got is decent for rolling hills - right? I don't live in the rockies - but it isn't flat. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by episodic View Post
    Wow - you guy's conversations are way over my head

    From my 'comprehension clues' in this particular case, the bike I got is decent for rolling hills - right? I don't live in the rockies - but it isn't flat. . .
    Good choice! When the chain is on the small chainring and the largest cog (your lowest gear), the wheels will make one revolution for each revolution of your pedals. This "one to one" ratio is sufficiently low to get a moderately fit rider up the steepest paved road he is likely to encounter. As others have mentioned, you have the option to change the gearing to provide an even lower low gear if you decide you want it, but I think you will be very happy with your Marin as is. My nicest bike is a Marin hybrid. Enjoy your ride!

  13. #13
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Go here and plug in the specs for your current ride:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

    Then plug in the specs for the other two bikes. That will tell you how their gearing compares to your bike's. For example,I use the gain ratio numbers and for my hilly commute I like to have at least a 2.0 granny gear for climbing and a 7.0 top gear so I don't spin out.

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  14. #14
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    300% can be enough for casual riders doing normal terrain.
    I've got a range of 441% and find it perfect ... ranges of 500% to 600% seem a bit silly but hey, maybe some people need such low gears for doing tricky trial stuff i guess.

  15. #15
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    Ok I looked up all the bike parts for the bike I ordered 175mm crankshaft 48-38-28 sprockets.

    On the rear a 7 speed free wheel that is 14-16-18-20-22-24-26-28

    With gear inches my 700c wheel travels around 27 inches and has a 2.0 as a gear ratio.

    My largest gear goes to a 6.8 ratio or a 93.2 gear inches.


    My crosstown is a megarange 7 speed with an 11-34 rear cassette (correct word for sprockets?)
    It only has one front chaninring - a 44t. (no front dearailler)
    so given that the highest gear was 108.7 gear inches or an 8.1 gain ratio.

    The lowest gear was around 35 gear inches or a gear ration of 2.6

    So climbing should be easier with my new bike? Or I completely failed and don't understand any of this

    Basically - one question - lets say I moved to the mountains - I could then replace my front crank with a 42-32-22 - and I've have an even easier granny gear with a small loss in top end potential - correct?

  16. #16
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    Your new bike has lower gearing than your old one. This is a good example of what others were talking about with regard to gear range. The 7 speed and the 21 speed bikes have similar range. You'll have to master half step shifting to get an advantage from the 21 speed.

    If you replace the cogset with one that has a twelve tooth small cog, you will regain the high gear of ~109. An 11-28 will give a higher gear. As is, you've lost some top end, but I wouldn't worry about it. 93 gear inches should be plenty. 30+ mph with fast feet.

  17. #17
    Sumerian Street Rider khutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by episodic View Post
    So climbing should be easier with my new bike? Or I completely failed and don't understand any of this

    Basically - one question - lets say I moved to the mountains - I could then replace my front crank with a 42-32-22 - and I've have an even easier granny gear with a small loss in top end potential - correct?
    You are understanding it quite well. Your new bike does have a bit lower low gear than the old one and will be easier to pedal up hills. You lose a fair amount at the top end though so pedaling down those same hills will be harder, or you will coast more often. You could replace your chain rings up front if you moved to the Rockies. You could also put an 11-34 cassette on the rear. Either one could force you to buy a new rear derailleur with more chain wrap, but that is the joy of upgrading! My Fuji has a low end of 30 gear inches and I find it sufficient to climb the 23% grades on the local bike trail. This is in Illinois so grades that steep are thankfully short, otherwise I'd need a better engine to get up them no matter what granny ring I have! As it is I have been experimenting with using slightly higher gears on those grades and I find it does not make a huge difference, the higher gears might even be a little better. Something in the 30 inch range should be good for grades less severe than 23% and I think that describes most road grades anywhere but the Rockies, Alps, etc. Perhaps even there you can find easier routes to many places.

    I agree that 300% is enough for a casual rider. I just think that a daily 8 mile commute and occasional 25 mile and longer rides are outside the territory of a casual rider, more an intermediate at least. And once you feel comfortable with 25 miles are you going to stop there? I doubt it. I'm not dissing IGH's, you could certainly do anything you want using an IGH bike. I'm just saying that for longer rides I would like more range than most of them give and the closer gear spacing is nice sometimes too. I realize that my 3x10 Fuji does not have 30 evenly spaced gears and many are so closely spaced as to be identical. I have yet to find myself thinking that I have more gears or a wider range than I need though. Not even close. Its transmission works very well and I have no desire to change it.

    Ken

  18. #18
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    That is the reason I went ahead with the derailler model. The internal gears were cool in a way - but maybe not practical enough for me.

    I'm really concerned about having good granny gears as I'm back on a bike for first time in 15 years - and it is rolling hills around here - and well, to be blunt - I'm a clydesdale. I've been on the bike 3 weeks and have went from huffing and puffing through 3-5 miles to up to 15 miles. I'm now making loaded 6 mile grocery runs relatively easy (except everyone staring at the sweaty big guy on the bike).

    Anyhow, I've learned some stuff thanks!

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    khutch,
    Interesting thread. Question: How come using a higher gear going uphills does not make a hugh difference?
    My point is. When Iam climbing a hill and I get to gears 1 to 1 (small gear in front/large gear in back) and it is just too hard to keep pedling, then I get off and push the bike up the rest of the hill. Iam not Lance Armstrong, but I do wear his yellow wrist band.
    Last edited by five0fan; 07-29-10 at 08:28 PM.

  20. #20
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    five0fan: are you asking why it's hard for you to climb hills in your lowest gear? Depends on how your bike is geared(what bike is it?). Some bikes just don't have low gears. Also,it depends on the rider. When I started commuting I had a Trek 7200 with pretty low gears,but I had to get off and push up a couple hills. I gradually built up,and now I do the same commute with no prob.

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  21. #21
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five0fan View Post
    khutch,
    Interesting thread. Question: How come using a higher gear going uphills does not make a hugh difference?
    My point is. When Iam climbing a hill and I get to gears 1 to 1 (small gear in front/large gear in back) and it is just too hard to keep pedling, then I get off and push the bike up the rest of the hill. Iam not Lance Armstrong, but I do wear his yellow wrist band.
    You may wear a yellow wrist band, but if you are speaking of the lowest gear on a mountainbike setup being 22/34 and you are unable to get up a hill with that gear ... this simply means that you need to work out more and get in better shape.
    I rode up 20% inclining hills in 30/23, to give you a comparison.
    Unless you like to walk up hills ofcourse, in that case you can just keep doing that.
    Try changing to an orange wrist band ... they are even faster.

  22. #22
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    Pay attention people. fiveOfan has a one to one low gear.

    fiveOfan was asking why khutch has found climbing very steep short hills in a gear slightly higher than his low gear to be easier than in his lower gear. I'm guessing it's because he is strong enough to maintain his cadence in the slightly higher gear and downshifting would cause him to be under geared, the "pedaling air" feeling when you are in too low a gear and can't spin fast enough to put any power into the drivetrain.

    episodic, congratulations! Keep up the good work! You will loose weight, gain fitness and learn the fine points of shifting. Try to keep it at a gear that your feet are moving fast and the effort needed stays fairly constant.

    I guess at this point, you might benefit from a lower low gear. Yes you can swap for the 22/32/42 crankset and it shouldn't require a different derailleur as khutch suggests. Changing the cassette to a megarange like you had on the Fuji would probably require a longer chain and possibly a different derailleur, so changing the crankset makes more sense.

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