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  1. #1
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Need Help ! Fitting...

    After a few longer rides on the new bike, the back of my upper arms are a little sore. I have
    taken the measurements of my old bike, and the new one. The only difference in geometry
    I could find worth even mentioning are, wheel axle to wheel axle 1/4 " shorter on new bike,
    and the big one, handle bars from ground to top 4'' lower on new bike, I was amazed at how
    close the frames are, almost identical. I'm thinking this is because I am leaning more on my
    arms than before, and just will take a little getting used to, or should I try and install some
    type of vertical risers. I really do not like that look, and if it is only just a matter of getting
    accustomed to it, I can just weight. Like when you first start riding and your but hurts. I
    just have to mention it again about how close the frames were, even all angles, lengths, and
    center of seat post to actual handle bar grips, even with the different stems, seat tube to steering tube, only other one would be obvious, axle height from ground to center 1/2"
    but that is due to rim size. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard
    Last edited by xoxoxoxoLive; 10-27-10 at 02:19 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #2
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Is the wheel base length center to center of axle, 43" or 109 cm pretty standard for a Hybrid ? All I could find was info on Road bikes, and
    this would be rather long for one. Just wondering ? Richard

  3. #3
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    Re adjust your saddle fore/aft position. If your arms are sore, it's because you're likely using them more to hold your body up. The lower bars could certainly account for that.

    If you move your saddle front/back, you'll be able to get more weight over your butt than over your arms. Play with it until you get it right, and be sure to check the height too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
    After a few longer rides on the new bike, the back of my upper arms are a little sore. I have
    taken the measurements of my old bike, and the new one. The only difference in geometry
    I could find worth even mentioning are, wheel axle to wheel axle 1/4 " shorter on new bike,
    and the big one, handle bars from ground to top 4'' lower on new bike, I was amazed at how
    close the frames are, almost identical. I'm thinking this is because I am leaning more on my
    arms than before, and just will take a little getting used to, or should I try and install some
    type of vertical risers. I really do not like that look, and if it is only just a matter of getting
    accustomed to it, I can just weight. Like when you first start riding and your but hurts. I
    just have to mention it again about how close the frames were, even all angles, lengths, and
    center of seat post to actual handle bar grips, even with the different stems, seat tube to steering tube, only other one would be obvious, axle height from ground to center 1/2"
    but that is due to rim size. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard
    You could try bars with a higher rise. A one inch higher bar makes a big difference. A shorter stem would also shift some of your weight back (as long as it didn't mess up other dimensions you want to maintain). The Headshock may use a proprietary stem that is not a standard dimension for the steerer tube. You would have to check that.

    As far as getting used to it ... you will to some extent. Usually the younger you are the easier it becomes to adapt to a more agressive posture. As for myself, I go to great lengths to get the bar height and reach just right. I have a short torso and arms so it is really hard to fit "off the rack" bikes for my personal geometry. All beacause I'm too old now to get used to a more agressive posture.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

  5. #5
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    I finally found a couple of in depth articles on bike fitting for all kinds of riding styles, I think that I was just to
    used to the other bike, new bike handle bars 1" above seat, old bike 5" above seat, after reading and going through all the set up processes, and recommended handle bar height in relation to seat, there should be NO
    problem ( but old age and practice ), according to people who ride with there handle bars even with there
    saddle, or even several inches lower, I did not say I was dying, just a little sore, and this was not happing before. Maybe I just need to ride the new bike more. As all recommended settings fit me perfect the way I
    both bikes adjusted. Thanks Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
    I finally found a couple of in depth articles on bike fitting for all kinds of riding styles, I think that I was just to
    used to the other bike, new bike handle bars 1" above seat, old bike 5" above seat, after reading and going through all the set up processes, and recommended handle bar height in relation to seat, there should be NO
    problem ( but old age and practice ), according to people who ride with there handle bars even with there
    saddle, or even several inches lower, I did not say I was dying, just a little sore, and this was not happing before. Maybe I just need to ride the new bike more. As all recommended settings fit me perfect the way I
    both bikes adjusted. Thanks Richard
    How sore after how far is the big question. My handlebars are a few inches lower than my saddle, and I hardly use my arms to keep me balanced.

    There really should be little difference in your arms, would probably be in your back since your posture is different. Regardless of where the bars are, you shouldn't be supporting most of your weight on your arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel S. View Post
    My handlebars are a few inches lower than my saddle, and I hardly use my arms to keep me balanced.
    That would not work for a T-Rex like me, LOL.

    I have touble getting a fit ... don't know why ...

    Last edited by Talldog; 10-27-10 at 04:07 PM.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

  8. #8
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    I read here on Bikeforums often the advice to move saddle aft to take weight off arms and it makes sense, but in my case, I need a forward saddle position to address a tendency to develop patella-femoral syndrome, the most common knee ailment for cyclists.

    I'd suggest moving the handlebar to address arm/hand/wrist soreness before you fool with saddle position.

    Your saddle height should be the same distance from the center of your bottom bracket on both bikes and the fore/aft position should be the same too. Drop a plumb bob from the nose of your saddle and measure distance from the plumb line to the center of the bottom bracket.

    You ordered an XL size Giant and a week later buy a Medium Can-of-ale. So maybe it's too small? I'm always kicking myself in the butt for buying too small. I do it every time, usually I can make it work. In the case of my Crack'n'fail hybrid, I got a performance fit from a comfort bike by buying a size too small and putting a long seatpost on it, for $300 something brand new (the bottom of their line), not counting the 350mm vintage XT steel seatpost which I already had. It's the third Cannon I've owned, love them!

    Look at how you sit with arms slightly bent. Is your back at 45? That would be good. You're old and lazy, so you might want a little more upright. Two options, raise the bars, shorten the stem or both. That's three actually. Before you change parts though...

    Get used to it! Get barends, they put your arms in a more ergonomic position, moves elbows in, aligns bones better. I just tried it sitting at my keyboard, try it. Hold an imaginary flat bar, then turn your hands like you would to hold barends. See how your forearms, elbows and upper arms rotate!? What I learned just now by trying that is the problem I'm having with my wrist might be helped by tilting my barends up a little. Don't stick your barends up into the air though, closer to level is better. My wrist problem is from the keyboard/mouse, not the bike.
    Last edited by qmsdc15; 10-27-10 at 04:33 PM.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind that adjusting to the headshock may take a little bit of getting used to. But yes, I do agree with moving the saddle so that the distance from the stem is decreased. As you get stronger from riding a different type of bike, you can adjust accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
    not counting the 350mm vintage XT steel seatpost which I already had.
    Now those are pretty nice seatposts. I've got one that came on my 1992 Norco Rampage Team Issue MTB. IMO, way better than the aluminum stuff nowadays.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
    You ordered an XL size Giant and a week later buy a Medium Can-of-ale. So maybe it's too small? I'm always kicking myself in the butt for buying too small. I do it every time, usually I can make it work.
    To get a ballpark idea if the bike will be comfortable the first thing I do anymore is check the HT length and top tube length (seat tube and head angle usually follow suit here). If these are way off from what you want/need then you have a problem.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

  12. #12
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Also keep in mind that adjusting to the headshock may take a little bit of getting used to. But yes, I do agree with moving the saddle so that the distance from the stem is decreased. As you get stronger from riding a different type of bike, you can adjust accordingly.
    Even with it open, ( not locked ), much stiffer than the other forks. and I have been going on much faster
    rides with the new bike. The distance is already the same as the old bike on the saddle to ( grips ) on the bars. It is like a optical illusion when looking at the 2 bikes, the old Schwinn seems like
    a monster compared to the new Cannondale, but the tape measure does not lie, just larger rims, and a higher
    handle bar riser. ( qmsdc15 ) I never ordered a XL, a large, And why I thought the Giant Roam 1 fit me, with seat all the way down, it did seem to fit me
    when riding it, not ( Stopping ) no stand over at all. I can tell when a bike is to small, my sons tourist, is way to small for me. Bike measurements can be tricky, my sons measures further from the crank to the top of the seat
    post than the Schwinn or Cannondale, which measure the same. but when my 2 are adjusted for me, both have the same amount of seat tube extended. ( so to sum it up ), If my handle bars are still over my seat by an inch, the bike is not to small, just the little added weight on my arms was something that a week or 2 will
    not fix...Richard ( Bike measurements seem to be like tire width, till you try it for yourself, you never know )

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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
    The distance is already the same as the old bike on the saddle to ( grips ) on the bars. It is like a optical illusion when looking at the 2 bikes, the old Schwinn seems like
    a monster compared to the new Cannondale, but the tape measure does not lie,
    Yes, but are the seat tube angles different ? This can make a big difference in "feel" vis a vis comfort, even though the relative distance of the saddle from the bars is the same.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

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    Your son has a higher saddle position than you and his bike is way to small for you? If he has a longer inseam than you do and his bike is too small for you, it's too small for him also.

    Get barends and HTFU.

  15. #15
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
    Moving the saddle to address a problem with handlebar position is wrong, Siu.
    You are correct but I was thinking that if he was closer, it would sit him up higher, thus taking some load off of his arms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
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    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    You are correct but I was thinking that if he was closer, it would sit him up higher, thus taking some load off of his arms.
    I removed that post immediately because I prefer a forward saddle position and I don't really see a downside to pushing the saddle forward. For me anyway, but everybody's different. I think he should try your idea and push the saddle forward.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    I too use a more forward position myself. Doesn't help my core strength but I'm comfortable!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  18. #18
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    Yes, but are the seat tube angles different ? This can make a big difference in "feel" vis a vis comfort, even though the relative distance of the saddle from the bars is the same.
    The angles are the same ..Richard

  19. #19
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
    Your son has a higher saddle position than you and his bike is way to small for you? If he has a longer inseam than you do and his bike is too small for you, it's too small for him also.

    Get barends and HTFU.
    ( Read closer ) measures from crank to seat post more than the F4 or Schwinn, but way smaller bike! video does not lie ! Look at frame style..

  20. #20
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel S. View Post
    How sore after how far is the big question. My handlebars are a few inches lower than my saddle, and I hardly use my arms to keep me balanced.

    There really should be little difference in your arms, would probably be in your back since your posture is different. Regardless of where the bars are, you shouldn't be supporting most of your weight on your arms.
    Just a little..Richard

  21. #21
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    Yes, but are the seat tube angles different ? This can make a big difference in "feel" vis a vis comfort, even though the relative distance of the saddle from the bars is the same.
    Not even to a degree.. Richard

  22. #22
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Here is the F4 Cannondale, they measure out he same !

  23. #23
    Senior Member xoxoxoxoLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
    Your son has a higher saddle position than you and his bike is way to small for you? If he has a longer inseam than you do and his bike is too small for you, it's too small for him also.

    Get barends and HTFU.
    ROTFLMAO !!!! You of all people thought you might have a better insight on this topic..Not just a bash ! Richard ( still laughing )

    Thought you might add something productive to this thread, do not make me FLY those colors again, check out my hat, I will
    stand by it to...Richard

  24. #24
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    Sorry buddy, my well thought out response was a few posts back. If you had said seat tube length that would have been concise and a lot clearer.

    You said your son's bike was longer from crank to the top of the seatpost. Sorry to confuse the meaning of your words with what you were trying to say.

    The top of the seatpost is not the top of the seat tube.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    I too use a more forward position myself. Doesn't help my core strength but I'm comfortable!
    Your posts make no sense to me! Triathlons and time trials are contested on forward saddles. Beach cruisers and comfort bikes are laid back.

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