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Old 02-03-11, 04:57 PM   #1
msujohn
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Shimano Derailleur Hierachy Question

I have a question about the hierachy of derailleurs from Shimano.

MTB/Hybrid: Delore LX > Deore > Alivio > Altus > Acera
Road/Hybrid: 105 > Tiagra > Sora

I've noticed when I look at hybrids sometimes they have MTB type derailleurs and others have Road bike type.

Is the way I classified the derailleurs correct? (i.e. Deore is better than Alivio). Are they any inbetween the 105 and Tiagra?

Is it fair to compare the low end of each of these (i.e. Acera = Sora)? For hybrid bikes does it matter what derailleurs it comes with?

If I am comparing 2 bikes one has a Deore rear derailleur and the other has a Tiagra - would they be they same quality?

Just looking for some help on this.
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Old 02-03-11, 08:22 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msujohn View Post
I have a question about the hierachy of derailleurs from Shimano.

MTB/Hybrid: Delore LX > Deore > Alivio > Altus > Acera
Road/Hybrid: 105 > Tiagra > Sora

I've noticed when I look at hybrids sometimes they have MTB type derailleurs and others have Road bike type.

Is the way I classified the derailleurs correct? (i.e. Deore is better than Alivio). Are they any inbetween the 105 and Tiagra?

Is it fair to compare the low end of each of these (i.e. Acera = Sora)? For hybrid bikes does it matter what derailleurs it comes with?

If I am comparing 2 bikes one has a Deore rear derailleur and the other has a Tiagra - would they be they same quality?

Just looking for some help on this.
There are better DRs than you listed, you have the MTB group out of order, and what Hybrid have you seen
with a Road bike DR..Just wondering, Richard
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Old 02-03-11, 09:15 PM   #3
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Shimano's website pretty much has it in order:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs...&bmUID=iSHiMaq

As far as comparing road and MTB, I'm not too sure. I would guess Deore is the equivalent of Tiagra.
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Old 02-03-11, 09:20 PM   #4
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OP, did you happen to read the wiki? Comparing road to mtb is like comparing apples to oranges.

Here's probably the most helpful tip that you'll likely get- don't worry about what parts are hanging off of the frame; concentrate on finding a frame that fits your needs/wants, your environment, and most importantly... YOU. You could have the most blinged out bike on the planet, but if it doesn't fit, then you aren't going to ride it.
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Old 02-03-11, 10:25 PM   #5
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Since you asked ........

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
There are better DRs than you listed, you have the MTB group out of order, and what Hybrid have you seen
with a Road bike DR..Just wondering, Richard
Thought I`d post a few examples from just ONE company. For a number of years Kona has been marketing hybrids. The `Dew` lineup ranges from the PHD, Dr Dew, Dew FS, Dew Deluxe, Dew Plus, Dew, and Dew Drop. On the top-end PHD you`ll find a Shimano Ultegra (road?) rear derailleur mixed with Shimano 105 Flatbar shifters (are those road or mtb?). The front derailleur on the Dr Dew has also been specified as a Shimano 105 (road?) while the rear derailleur was a Shimano Deore (mtb?). On the other hand - the Dew Drop (named because it has drop style road bars) was specified with a Shimano Deore (mtb?) rear derailleur in spite of having Shimano 2xxx series shifters and brakes (definately road).

That should get you started - Kona hasn`t been the only company to blur the boundaries.
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Old 02-03-11, 11:05 PM   #6
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ecause you asked ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by msujohn View Post
I have a question about the hierachy of derailleurs from Shimano.

MTB/Hybrid: Delore LX > Deore > Alivio > Altus > Acera
Road/Hybrid: 105 > Tiagra > Sora

I've noticed when I look at hybrids sometimes they have MTB type derailleurs and others have Road bike type.

Is the way I classified the derailleurs correct? (i.e. Deore is better than Alivio). Are they any inbetween the 105 and Tiagra?

Is it fair to compare the low end of each of these (i.e. Acera = Sora)? For hybrid bikes does it matter what derailleurs it comes with?

If I am comparing 2 bikes one has a Deore rear derailleur and the other has a Tiagra - would they be they same quality?

Just looking for some help on this.
Last time I checked, Shimano mtb series could generally be aranged in a hierarcy based on a 3 number sequence: XTR (9xx), Saint (8xx), XT (7xx), SLX (6xx), Deore (5xx), Alivio (4xx), Acera (3xx), (also 3xx) and Tourney (0xx).

Road components can generally be arranged by a 4- digit sequence: Dura-ace (7xxx), Ultegra (6xxx), 105 (5xxx), Tiagra (4xxx), Sora (3xxx) and the Shimano 2xxx group.From there it can get confusing. Road rear derailleurs are usually available in either short cage or long cage versions. The lower end mtb rear derailleurs are not available in short cage versions o the high end ones are. The higher end mtb rear derailleurs are also available in low-normal or top-normal versions. Road models tend to be top-normal versions.

However, I really wouldn`t suggest you worry about any of it. The overall package on most bikes has been fairly well thought out and any `package` would be cheaper that what you would end up with by buying parts seperately. Sounds like you`re not looking at a high end bike so I`d suggest you buy something you like from someone that you have no problem talking to. Remember you`ll be getting after sales service there and so they should be able to help you with any questions ahead of time.
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Old 02-03-11, 11:11 PM   #7
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I always just lumped the Acera/Alivia/Altus stuff into the same level - that stuff that starts with A that I wouldn't buy.

Like Burton said, there's at least one notch lower on the road groups also - 2300/2200 stuff.
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Old 02-04-11, 02:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
There are better DRs than you listed, you have the MTB group out of order, and what Hybrid have you seen
with a Road bike DR..Just wondering, Richard
I guess to answer your simple question, Alivio would be closer to Tiagra than Deore, thus making the Deore a little better. Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 02:48 AM   #9
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I always just lumped the Acera/Alivia/Altus stuff into the same level - that stuff that starts with A that I wouldn't buy.

Like Burton said, there's at least one notch lower on the road groups also - 2300/2200 stuff.
Alivio, Acera, and even Atlus work perfectly fine. Here is a Tourney after a couple 1000 miles...And I have owned XTR and Sram X7 stuff and rode bikes with XO Sram..Once adjusted correctly, they all work fine.

Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 03:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Burton View Post
Last time I checked, Shimano mtb series could generally be aranged in a hierarcy based on a 3 number sequence: XTR (9xx), Saint (8xx), XT (7xx), SLX (6xx), Deore (5xx), Alivio (4xx), Acera (3xx), (also 3xx) and Tourney (0xx).

Road components can generally be arranged by a 4- digit sequence: Dura-ace (7xxx), Ultegra (6xxx), 105 (5xxx), Tiagra (4xxx), Sora (3xxx) and the Shimano 2xxx group.From there it can get confusing. Road rear derailleurs are usually available in either short cage or long cage versions. The lower end mtb rear derailleurs are not available in short cage versions o the high end ones are. The higher end mtb rear derailleurs are also available in low-normal or top-normal versions. Road models tend to be top-normal versions.

However, I really wouldn`t suggest you worry about any of it. The overall package on most bikes has been fairly well thought out and any `package` would be cheaper that what you would end up with by buying parts seperately. Sounds like you`re not looking at a high end bike so I`d suggest you buy something you like from someone that you have no problem talking to. Remember you`ll be getting after sales service there and so they should be able to help you with any questions ahead of time.
You left out a few MTB DR's, but +1 on your post ! Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 08:43 AM   #11
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and what Hybrid have you seen
with a Road bike DR..Just wondering, Richard
Probably just about any performance biased hybrid. The top two Fuji Absolutes for example use Tiagra and 105 bits, for the most part.

Ken
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Old 02-04-11, 09:25 AM   #12
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Probably just about any performance biased hybrid. The top two Fuji Absolutes for example use Tiagra and 105 bits, for the most part.

Ken
The Trek 7.7 FX has some 105 stuff, including the rear derailleur.
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Old 02-04-11, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1mad View Post
OP, did you happen to read the wiki? Comparing road to mtb is like comparing apples to oranges.

Here's probably the most helpful tip that you'll likely get- don't worry about what parts are hanging off of the frame; concentrate on finding a frame that fits your needs/wants, your environment, and most importantly... YOU. You could have the most blinged out bike on the planet, but if it doesn't fit, then you aren't going to ride it.
+1000!
'Components' are just that ... components.

The two most important things are 1)Frame/fork (quality, fit, etc just as no1mad says) and 2)Wheels .. in that order.

Buy a bike that fits/suits you/your needs, and just ride!

Higher-level drivetrain components are 'nicer' to use, to some extent, and (typically) save some weight, but they will not make your bike fit you.
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Old 02-04-11, 09:51 AM   #14
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+1000!
'Components' are just that ... components.

The two most important things are 1)Frame/fork (quality, fit, etc just as no1mad says) and 2)Wheels .. in that order.

Buy a bike that fits/suits you/your needs, and just ride!

Higher-level drivetrain components are 'nicer' to use, to some extent, and (typically) save some weight, but they will not make your bike fit you.
Thanks for all the advice. As I am very new to Hybrids - I am trying to understand what is the most important parts of the bike. Looks like Frame/fork is number 1 and wheels number 2. Since I am only looking at bikes in the $650 price range - I wanted to understand why I compare 1 to the other - what was comprimsed. Sounds like it is better to focus on the bike with the better frame/fork and wheels - the other components can be upgraded if ever needed. Now, I'll have to understand what a better fram/fork and wheels is? How can you tell. Is it all by feel? Looking at a Trek 7.3, Cannondale Quick 4, Specialized sirrus elite, and Fuji absolute 2.0 - what tells you how the frame/fork and wheels compare?
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Old 02-04-11, 11:31 AM   #15
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Not too sure about wheels, but it sounds like the frame is mostly based on feel. I tested out a Trek 7.2FX, Specialized Sirrus, and Fuji Absolute 3.0 last year. I liked the Specialized and Fuji, but I would have rather kept riding the too small MTB conversion I had than ride that Trek.

I wonder if there is much of a difference in using road or MTB components on a hybrid. For example I am thinking of building up a nice rigid MTB frame I have into a hybrid, and I have a XT and 105 RD sitting in my parts bin.
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Old 02-04-11, 01:00 PM   #16
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It goes like this:

MTB: Altus - Acera - Alivio - Deore - LX - SLX - XT - XTR
Road: Sora - Tiagra - 105 - Ultegra - Dura Ace

An LX is comparable to a 105 ... I don't claim this ... Shimano claims this: the packages of the LX chains say "usable for 105".
In the same fashion a tiagra is about a deore and an XT is comparable to an Ultegra and an XTR is pro racing stuff like a Dure Ace.

Hope this helped clear things up
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Old 02-04-11, 01:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
Alivio, Acera, and even Atlus work perfectly fine. Here is a Tourney after a couple 1000 miles...And I have owned XTR and Sram X7 stuff and rode bikes with XO Sram..Once adjusted correctly, they all work fine....
+1 on the Alivio for me. I've taken my 7.2 fx close to 800 miles and I can count the number of RD misses on one hand with most of them coming within the first month break in period. The Shimano M191 FD on the 7.2 is nothing to write home about but I'll take the Alivio RD anytime. It's been adjusted just once and has had sand, mud, twigs and God knows what else get thrown it's way and it still works great.
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Old 02-04-11, 02:12 PM   #18
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When you see MTB RDs on bikes with otherwise road component groups it is based on running the larger 32 or 34 tooth MTB cassettes or the ability to add them later.
As far as I know 27 teeth is the largest cassette the road RDs can handle. Whereas you can run a MTB RD with any size cogset and they work just fine with either road or trigger shifters so long as they are the same speed.
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Old 02-04-11, 03:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Probably just about any performance biased hybrid. The top two Fuji Absolutes for example use Tiagra and 105 bits, for the most part.

Ken
Your right, I never look at performace style Hybrids. My Bad, Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 03:52 PM   #20
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Your right, I never look at performace style Hybrids. My Bad, Richard
No bad, it is pretty obvious that you are a trail oriented hybrideer. So much so one wonders why you hang out here instead of the MTB section! I'm not one to criticize though, without too much trouble I could undoubtedly have found a road bike that suits me as well as my hybrid. The road bike people are just too intense to hang out with though. Maybe the MTBers are as well. Perhaps this forum exists not for hybrid bikes but for hybrid people?!

Ken
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Old 02-04-11, 04:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
It goes like this:

MTB: Altus - Acera - Alivio - Deore - LX - SLX - XT - XTR
Road: Sora - Tiagra - 105 - Ultegra - Dura Ace

An LX is comparable to a 105 ... I don't claim this ... Shimano claims this: the packages of the LX chains say "usable for 105".
In the same fashion a tiagra is about a deore and an XT is comparable to an Ultegra and an XTR is pro racing stuff like a Dure Ace.

Hope this helped clear things up
Nice list, but you left out Saint which falls in between XT and XTR, and I would still include Tourney at the bottom. It is stock on plenty of LBS bikes, Shimano SIS being at the very bottom. But good info, I believe
Alivio is much closer to Tiagra, making Deore a little better. But like one poster said, Bike Fit first, frame and forks, wheels and hubs, drive train, brakes, tires, and seat...I always wondered why we never talk about how
important hubs are to the bikes performance, even cheap ones that are greased and correctly adjusted would
out roll the most expensive ones that are not. And slow you down more than the worst tires out there. Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 04:27 PM   #22
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... and LX is not considered a Mountain Bike group anymore and is pretty much out of the picture in the USA.

It's a Trekking component group in Europe, possibly elsewhere also.
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Old 02-04-11, 04:48 PM   #23
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+1 on the Alivio for me. I've taken my 7.2 fx close to 800 miles and I can count the number of RD misses on one hand with most of them coming within the first month break in period. The Shimano M191 FD on the 7.2 is nothing to write home about but I'll take the Alivio RD anytime. It's been adjusted just once and has had sand, mud, twigs and God knows what else get thrown it's way and it still works great.
I really like the Alivio on my Giant, shifts smooth front and rear, just sold a bike with XTR components and could not notice
any real difference other than size, and My Cannondale had Sram X7 which shifted just as well as the others.
There is a small difference in the Tourney, but you really only can tell when shifting under some load, which
you should not do anyway. I also have the Acera DR on my Trek, and an Atlus on my sons Tourist, and they all
shift fine. I have noticed that keeping your hubs greased and adjusted perfectly result in a real change in a bikes
performance. And then tires seem to be the first things to look at when getting the most out of what you have.
Glad you like your Alivio, Richard
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Old 02-04-11, 05:00 PM   #24
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No bad, it is pretty obvious that you are a trail oriented hybrideer. So much so one wonders why you hang out here instead of the MTB section! I'm not one to criticize though, without too much trouble I could undoubtedly have found a road bike that suits me as well as my hybrid. The road bike people are just too intense to hang out with though. Maybe the MTBers are as well. Perhaps this forum exists not for hybrid bikes but for hybrid people?!

Ken
The answer is yes, they are ! ROTFLMAO ( Best Post Of The New Year ) great post Ken. Richard : )
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Old 02-04-11, 07:47 PM   #25
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Arrowana I guess you had this whole thread straight since post number 3. Should have followed your link to
Shimano's website. Just was reading through all the post again and decided to click on it. ( EGG ON FACE ),
LOL...I was going off memory, OOPPSSS !
Tourney
Altus
Acera
Alivio
Deore
Hone
Deore LX
SLX
Deore XT
DXR
Saint
XTR

For those that did not click on the link also, I noticed that you have a MotoBecane Grand Jubile, qsmdc15 thought that the Schwinn Trailways started me biking again. But I only bought it after my house burned
down, funds were low, and could not find anything on Craigslist worth buying. I had inside a Motobecane
500 HT XC Trail Deore, and a full suspension MTB bike that I built one part at a time. I'm loving the new
Giant Rincon more with every ride, but MISS the Motobecane, I have only one picture of it, printed from
the home printer, do not even know how it made it threw the fire. And I rode it like a Hybrid, to the store,
everywhere, but I lived in town back then. I have bought and sold so many off Craigslist this past year I
can not even count, trying to find just the right one. The new Giant may be it ! Sorry for the long post,
it is dark here, and pouring down rain, stuck in the house and just thinking. I will start clicking on the links
more often, I was a poster on another forum since 2007, till one of my friends said that one of my YouTube
videos were on a thread on bike forums, that thread is still going, like 19,000 views. Not due to my video, but
that is when I started posting on BikeForums, it is a much better forum, ( not calling the other ), it was okay.
I want to go riding ! Miss that Motobecane, ( LOL ) Richard
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