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  1. #1
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    I have a Giant Rapid 1. How much would it costs to upgrade from 105 to Ultegra.

    I have a Giant Rapid 1 flat bar road bike. I"m thinking of upgrading from 105 to Ultegra or higher and I'm thinking of putting some carbon bar ends on instead of the stock ones. Anybody tries these upgrades on a flat bar road bike. If the price isn't bad a may start plannning this down the road. What do you guys think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbloem View Post
    I have a Giant Rapid 1 flat bar road bike. I"m thinking of upgrading from 105 to Ultegra or higher.... What do you guys think?
    Probably absolutely unnecessary as there's nothing wrong with 105 or Tiagra, but if you want to it'll look snappy. Since it'll cost a shat load to just change the cranks, deraileurs, shifters, brake calipers etc, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a road bike with ultegra and add flat bars?

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    As a guess, $500-600, but that is not knowing what shifters you intend to use. R-770 are the Ultegra level I think. I would expect no improvement in performance or durability.

    If you are going for bling, go SRAM Force and the flat bar double tap shifters.

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    These types of upgrades are road bike types of upgrades usually made by roadies in clubs or who race. Of course, many roadies race one another. However, for a hybrid, these upgrades make no sense whatsoever, to me.

    One doesn't "race" a hybrid...That's not the purpose for which they're made. They're not geometrically made to be aerodynamic. The flat handlebars are a dead give away, that you're most likely not going to be racing. Therefore, why would you even think about placing any type of carbon on a hybrid. Carbon and hybrid together sounds like oil and water to me. Ultegra and carbon should remain exclusive to the road bike crowd. It was made for them, solely.

    Commuters, City Bikers, Hybriders, and the Comfort Biker's worlds, should be filled with steel and aluminum....They should all be quite comfortable at the Tiagra, Deore, or maybe possibly the 105 level. Beyond 105 is just laughable!

    If you must spend your money to upgrade in order to have a better bike, just buy a better bike. Buy a road bike! Buy either a CF road bike or an aluminum road bike, that's complete with Ultegra and all the carbon amenities you can shake a stick at!

    * Most roadies that make these types of upgrades do so in order to make their bikes lighter in mass for speed advantages. Ultegras may be a little more precise in shifting. Again, we're just talking speed here...

    - Slim

    PS.

    Of course, one day, I'm certain that we're all going to be riding carbon, exclusively!
    Last edited by SlimRider; 10-11-11 at 08:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    Carbon and hybrid together sounds like oil and water to me. Ultegra and carbon should remain exclusive to the road bike crowd. It was made for them, solely.

    Commuters, City Bikers, Hybriders, and the Comfort Biker's worlds, should be filled with steel and aluminum....They should all be quite comfortable at the Tiagra, Deore, or maybe possibly the 105 level. Beyond 105 is just laughable!
    Are you serious or are you just being facetious ... or trolling ?? It is hard to tell. Because if you are serious this is the biggest load of crap I have read in a while.
    Last edited by Talldog; 10-11-11 at 04:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    Are you serious or are you just being facetious ... or trolling ?? It is hard to tell. Because if you are serious this is the biggest load of crap I have read in a while.
    No Talldog,

    I can assure you that I'm not trolling....

    Why would anybody spend money for Ultegra when their just commuting? Why would anybody want to just commute with a carbon fiber bike?

    Perhaps if you have an inordinate amount of disposable cash, then it would most probably behoove you to spend it on a CF bike as opposed to alcohol or drugs. However, for the average person simply commuting, Ultegra is unnecessary, IMHO.

    Of course, there's no law to limit the amount that you spend on a bike, no more than there's a law that limits your taste in bikes. It's just that IMHO, it's impractical. That's it!

    Now, having said that, I'm certain that one day soon, CF for the everyday cyclist, will be the norm. I just don't believe that CF is where it needs to be for the daily commute, just yet! Let's give it a couple more years...

    - Slim

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    [QUOTE=SlimRider No Talldog,

    I can assure you that I'm not trolling....

    Why would anybody spend money for Ultegra when their just commuting? Why would anybody want to just commute with a carbon fiber bike?

    Perhaps if you have an inordinate amount of disposable cash, then it would most probably behoove you to spend it on a CF bike as opposed to alcohol or drugs. However, for the average person simply commuting, Ultegra is unnecessary, IMHO.

    Of course, there's no law to limit the amount that you spend on a bike, no more than there's a law that limits your taste in bikes. It's just that IMHO, it's impractical. That's it!

    Now, having said that, I'm certain that one day soon, CF for the everyday cyclist, will be the norm. I just don't believe that CF is where it needs to be for the daily commute, just yet! Let's give it a couple more years...

    - Slim [/QUOTE]
    Your opinions are welcome to the forum but wrong on many levels.
    Hybrids are the most versatile bikes around and many use them like you but not all for more reasons than any of us can think of.
    Last edited by jbchybridrider; 10-13-11 at 03:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbchybridrider View Post
    Your opinions are welcome to the forum but wrong on many levels.
    Hybrids are the most versatile bikes around and many use them like you but not all for more reasons than any of us can think of.
    Ok JB!

    Could you please explain what you're saying here?

    I'm open to expand my ideas and concepts about various aspects of cycling in our community. I quite honestly, don't see the practicality of using carbon fiber frames for the typical daily commute for the average commuter.

    I don't have a problem expressing that opinion, as I'm most certain that most people here would agree with me. If we all had an excessive amount of disposable cash, I'm also certain that many of us would at least try CF for commuting. However, for the average person, trying to eek out a living, under current economical pressures, most of us don't have that kind of income to test it on the daily CF commute.

    The only real practical difference between 105 and Ultegra is mass. The precision in the transition in gearing shouldn't be quite that noticeable when commuting to work.

    Now if you race to work or school everyday, then by all means, purchase the lightest CF road bike available and get a Dura Ace or Sram Red drive train...

    - Slim

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbloem View Post
    I have a Giant Rapid 1 flat bar road bike. I"m thinking of upgrading from 105 to Ultegra or higher and I'm thinking of putting some carbon bar ends on instead of the stock ones. Anybody tries these upgrades on a flat bar road bike. If the price isn't bad a may start plannning this down the road. What do you guys think?
    As most others have said I really don't think the benefit gained is worth the money here. Both 105 and Tiagra have very good bang for the buck reputations. The primary difference is weight between them and Ultegra. I think there is a chance you would be disappointed with the result as you probably would not feel much of a difference. Put that $$ towards a wheel/tire upgrade and you would be better off.

    As far as not putting a road group on a hybrid this is total crap. Hybrids usually come with mountain groups because the shifters are flat bar and the gearing is wider which is a little more in line with the versatility of a hybrid. However, if I had a high end flat bar road bike type hybrid like you do I would want a road group on it.
    Last edited by knobd; 10-13-11 at 08:30 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobd View Post
    As most others have said I really don't think the benefit gained is worth the money here. 105 has a good reputation and is probably the best bang for the buck gruppo. The primary difference is weight. I think there is a chance you would be disappointed with the result as you probably would not feel much of a difference. Put that $$ towards a wheel/tire upgrade and you would be better off.

    As far as not putting a road group on a hybrid this is total crap. Hybrids
    usually come with mountain groups because the shifters are flat bar and the
    gearing is wider which is in a little more in line with the versatility of a
    hybrid. However, if I had a high end flat bar road bike type hybrid like you do
    I would want a road group on it
    .
    So what advantage would you gain in placing a road group on a hybrid that already has 105's?

    You've already stated and excellent reason for not doing so. Also, the idea of flatbars with any racing oriented upgrades, just seems counter-productive to me. Your upgrades are nullified by your non-aerodynamic posture.

    - Slim

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    So what advantage would you gain in placing a road group on a hybrid that already has 105's?

    You've already stated and excellent reason for not doing so. Also, the idea of flatbars with any racing oriented upgrades, just seems counter-productive to me. Your upgrades are nullified by your non-aerodynamic posture.

    - Slim
    I advised him to not upgrade from 105's but I also didn't tell him to get rid of the road group. Giant puts a road group on this bike in stock form (2012 only has 105 RD, Tiagra everything else). Road bike components don't necessarily equate with racing. Actually after the primary difference between MTB and road groups which is the shifters they really aren't all that much different and have virtually nothing at all to do with aerodynamics. Put it this way, if someone gave me a Deore RD (MTB) for my CX bike I'd replace the Sora RD (Road) immediately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobd View Post
    I advised him to not upgrade from 105's but I also didn't tell him to get rid of the road group. Giant puts a road group on this bike in stock form (2012 only has 105 RD, Tiagra everything else). Road bike components don't necessarily equate with racing. Actually after the primary difference between MTB and road groups which is the shifters they really aren't all that much different and have virtually nothing at all to do with aerodynamics. Put it this way, if someone gave me a Deore RD (MTB) for my CX bike I'd replace the Sora RD (Road) immediately.
    A G R E E D !

    - Slim

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    If you're going to do it, probably the cheapest way to do it is to buy a bike off bikes direct that has an ultegra groupset and then swap the parts over and then sell the other bike. Some people have said you can get one of those bikes for cheaper than an ultegra groupset separately, especially if you sell the other stuff once you're done.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  14. #14
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    OP (if you are still here)~

    As to carbon bar ends, I changed from Ergon GR-2 bar ends to GX-2 Leichtbau (carbon) bar ends, and I love the change. The carbon bar end is much less "sticky", both bare handed and with gloves, and I prefer that for my style riding. These are short bar ends, and from them, I can pivot my hand and still shift. The look also went nicely with my aluminum frame with carbon seat and chain stays, fork, stem spacers, and seat post.

    Hi Slim
    The only one that relegated hybrids to commuter bikes is you, and the OP never mentioned what he uses his Giant for. As to road components on a hybrid, they are what makes a hybrid a hybrid, as a bike with a mix of road and mountain components.

    The first change I ever made to my original hybrid was installation of a road crank, which then pushes some other "road" changes. You say road groups make no sense on a hybrid. I would say triple cranks make very little sense on a hybrid. I ride a flat bar bike (pronounce "Hybrid") with a road standard crank and carbon pieces and commute with it, ride centuries on it, and do fast group rides with it. Am I less aerodynamic than others, sure, but that doesn't mean that my ride doesn't make sense.

    You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is to theirs. Everyone has been consistent to the OP that the upgrade proposed might yield limited results, but none of us have any idea what he is interested in.

    Just my opinion. You are more than welcome to disagree, as I do with yours.

    Roll

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post

    Hi Slim
    The only one that relegated hybrids to commuter bikes is you, and the OP never mentioned what he uses his Giant for. As to road components on a hybrid, they are what makes a hybrid a hybrid, as a bike with a mix of road and mountain components.

    The first change I ever made to my original hybrid was installation of a road crank, which then pushes some other "road" changes. You say road groups make no sense on a hybrid. I would say triple cranks make very little sense on a hybrid. I ride a flat bar bike (pronounce "Hybrid") with a road standard crank and carbon pieces and commute with it, ride centuries on it, and do fast group rides with it. Am I less aerodynamic than others, sure, but that doesn't mean that my ride doesn't make sense.

    You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is to theirs. Everyone has been consistent to the OP that the upgrade proposed might yield limited results, but none of us have any idea what he is interested in.

    Just my opinion. You are more than welcome to disagree, as I do with yours.

    Roll
    You are much more diplomatic than me. I guess I could never be a politician. As time marches on I just get less tolerant of overt BS and elitism.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    If you're going to do it, probably the cheapest way to do it is to buy a bike off bikes direct that has an ultegra groupset and then swap the parts over and then sell the other bike. Some people have said you can get one of those bikes for cheaper than an ultegra groupset separately, especially if you sell the other stuff once you're done.
    Good point. It also means he'd have a place to put the components he's pulling off of the Giant. I'm not sure how easy it is to get flat bar shifters to work with Ultegra derailluers. There may be no issues but I thought I remember reading something somewhere. In any event, I'm sure its doable; it just might not be a simple swap.
    Last edited by knobd; 10-13-11 at 12:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    OP (if you are still here)~

    As to carbon bar ends, I changed from Ergon GR-2 bar ends to GX-2 Leichtbau (carbon) bar ends, and I love the change. The carbon bar end is much less "sticky", both bare handed and with gloves, and I prefer that for my style riding. These are short bar ends, and from them, I can pivot my hand and still shift. The look also went nicely with my aluminum frame with carbon seat and chain stays, fork, stem spacers, and seat post.

    Hi Slim
    The only one that relegated hybrids to commuter bikes is you, and the OP never mentioned what he uses his Giant for. As to road components on a hybrid, they are what makes a hybrid a hybrid, as a bike with a mix of road and mountain components.

    The first change I ever made to my original hybrid was installation of a road crank, which then pushes some other "road" changes. You say road groups make no sense on a hybrid. I would say triple cranks make very little sense on a hybrid. I ride a flat bar bike (pronounce "Hybrid") with a road standard crank and carbon pieces and commute with it, ride centuries on it, and do fast group rides with it. Am I less aerodynamic than others, sure, but that doesn't mean that my ride doesn't make sense.

    You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is to theirs. Everyone has been consistent to the OP that the upgrade proposed might yield limited results, but none of us have any idea what he is interested in.

    Just my opinion. You are more than welcome to disagree, as I do with yours.

    Roll
    Just out of curiosity...

    Other than racing, commuting, and recreation, what other purposes do most other bicycles serve other than utilitarian?

    I personally, closely associate commuting with utilitarian bicycles. I mean, if you can place panniers and a rack on your commuter bike, it doubles for both immediately.

    If you're starting some new sport where hybrids are racing one another, I suppose the road upgrades would be in order.

    - Slim

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    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    There is little to gain in upgrading 105 to Ultegra.
    The performance gain is zero.
    The durability gain is zero.
    The only thing you will gain is about a pound of weightloss.
    This will hardly result in any gain in speed when riding on flat ground ... it'll depend on the total weight of you and your bicycle and especially on your position ... in the case of a hybrid with semi-upright position it'll probably be less than 0.1 mph.
    The only place where this small weight difference could ever benefit you is on steep inclines but even then the difference in speed will be close to 0.1 mph or maybe a tad bit more on very steep hills.

    Do it for the looks if you like ... but don't expect any measurable difference.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    You are much more diplomatic than me. I guess I could never be a politician. As time marches on I just get less tolerant of overt BS and elitism.
    Hey there Talldog!

    In a civilized society, I think we should all strive to be as diplomatic as possible. This is especially within a forum such as this one, where we are all free to exchange ideas, equally. I admit that I might sometimes be wrong because I'm only human. However, I do believe that I have just as much right as you, in sharing my opinion, whether you feel that it is incorrect, elitist, full of BS, or not.

    Besides, no human as a monopoly on BS. We all seem to have some stashed somewhere, regardless as to what we may claim on one forum or another. Believe me, there are many "forums" in life...

    On some forum, there's a pile of BS that each of us owns, exclusively!

    Most Respectfully,

    - Slim

    PS.

    Like I've already stated, I'm open to new ideas. Maybe I'm missing something here. Just explain it to me. Roll had a good point. Add to Roll's point.
    Last edited by SlimRider; 10-13-11 at 12:53 PM.

  20. #20
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    If you're going to do it, probably the cheapest way to do it is to buy a bike off bikes direct that has an ultegra groupset and then swap the parts over and then sell the other bike. Some people have said you can get one of those bikes for cheaper than an ultegra groupset separately, especially if you sell the other stuff once you're done.
    Don't know if this would help OP as he wants Ultegra flat bar shifters. I haven't looked at BD's flat bar stuff, but their great prices on Ultegra bikes usually are road bike / brifter based. The brifters would be useless to him, and lots of the BD ones I checked out didn't have the Ultegra crank. I would think a group buy for a flat bar group would be tricky, as I have never seen them compiled with the R770 shifters.

    Again, just my opinion. No negativity toward BD expressed or implied.

  21. #21
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    Hi Slim!

    If, hypothetically, I were in the mood to have a discussion on "purpose" of a bicycle, I would further narrow your three classes to two: functional and recreational. And all recreational bikes have functional aspects, and all functional bikes have recreational aspects. And all of these aspects are somewhat objective, but largely subjective. My functional commuting bike functions for me with the inclusion of a backpack, but might fall into someone's definitional of a recreational bike.

    I have, and I must apologize for this, read many of your threads. And many of them are very humorous, entertaining, witty, and ultimately very "West Coast", but they largely rely on pigeon holing a rider or a bike or a material or a process into that specific nook that you believe is the correct fit. You are very black and white in your summaries, and I believe firm in your beliefs and commitments. Just recognize that many of us who embrace the "anything you ride is good as long as you ride" mentality will gag and vomit on your pablum.

    Luckily, this was all a hypothetical discussion, and I wasn't in the mood to share.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    Hi Slim!

    If, hypothetically, I were in the mood to have a discussion on "purpose" of a bicycle, I would further narrow your three classes to two: functional and recreational. And all recreational bikes have functional aspects, and all functional bikes have recreational aspects. And all of these aspects are somewhat objective, but largely subjective. My functional commuting bike functions for me with the inclusion of a backpack, but might fall into someone's definitional of a recreational bike.

    I have, and I must apologize for this, read many of your threads. And many of them are very humorous, entertaining, witty, and ultimately very "West Coast", but they largely rely on pigeon holing a rider or a bike or a material or a process into that specific nook that you believe is the correct fit. You are very black and white in your summaries, and I believe firm in your beliefs and commitments. Just recognize that many of us who embrace the "anything you ride is good as long as you ride" mentality will gag and vomit on your pablum.

    Luckily, this was all a hypothetical discussion, and I wasn't in the mood to share.
    Hey there Roll!

    I have a little time because afterall, I'm here in BF, enjoying your many witty reponses as well. However, I've also noticed that we both have a tendency to dispense information, based upon what we perceive to be knowledge obtained from reliable sources. Neither one of us appear to be overtly nasty, ill-willed, or intentionally misleading in our liberally dispersed opinions concerning bicycles with regards to either their use as a functional or recreational vehicle.

    In reference to the rigidity of my "black and white" conclusions drawn. I only have a couple of really strong concepts whereas bicycles are concerned. Of course, that would be with regards to bicycle frame materials best applications and how aluminum has displaced steel in the world bicycle market. Other than that, I'm quite liberal in my summaries about the multiplicity of functions that quite a few bicycle types, serve.

    By now, everyone most probably is aware that I prefer steel to any other bicycle frame material. So what? Most of us have a preferred bicycle material. Everyone most likely, is also aware that I feel that aluminum has a shorter fatigue life than does steel and should be priced at a less expensive level than steel. Due to both, its greater availability as a resource material and the relative ease with which it is processed to manufacture bicycles, much time is saved in the production cost of each unit. The savings in production should therefore, be passed on to the world's consumer cyclists. That's it!

    I have nothing against aluminum. I rather like aluminum bicycles. I just prefer to ride steel-framed bikes. I prefer steel whether it's a commuter bike or a recreational bike.

    I also have the firm belief that some components fit the function of a MTN bike more than that of a road bike. That's not so unusual. most of us, acknowledge that fact. It most certainly doesn't fit the pablum image of causing anyone to regurgitate. That is, unless they are knowledge-intolerant, information-sensitive, and have either very weak minds, stomachs, or possibly, both.

    - Slim
    Last edited by SlimRider; 10-13-11 at 05:35 PM.

  23. #23
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    Hi again Slim!

    Well written response, and I think you very nicely summarized your position on steel and aluminum and carbon that has been the subject of several threads. I think the vitriol in those threads muddied the overall point. And I agree that everyone passionate about the sport has a frame material held close to their heart, and we all probably defend that passion against challenges, maybe past the point of reason.

    I will now end my thread diversion, and return the thread to its originally scheduled programming.

    Roll

  24. #24
    Ha ha ha ha ha giantcfr1's Avatar
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    I think the origianl OP has left the building.

  25. #25
    Ha ha ha ha ha giantcfr1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobd View Post
    Good point.... I'm not sure how easy it is to get flat bar shifters to work with Ultegra derailluers....
    There are no problems with this I have done it along with many others ie. (deore shifter vs Ultegra R deraileur). The basic rear deraileur is just a big spring. The shifters change the gears. My guess is that as long as the actuation ratio is 2:1 you are all go go go. (sram is 1:1)
    Last edited by giantcfr1; 10-13-11 at 06:36 PM.

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