looking for suggestions on a commuter/hybrid
03-25-12, 09:47 AM
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looking for suggestions on a commuter/hybrid
so I've been putting way too much time into this and am ready to pull the trigger on a bike. just a little background...
bike will be used for commuting 6 miles round trip daily on crappy NYC streets, maybe some longer rides occassionally.
I've test rode most of these bikes, and they all kinda feel the same. that's probably b/c I haven't rode a bike in 20+years.
I want more of an upright/comfortable riding position (bad lower back), so if any of these bikes are road bike style geometry, I would rule that out.
I've narrowed my options down to these:
2011 giant seek 2 ($600) or 2012 seek3 (700)
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/....2/7342/44058/
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/....3/9016/48860/
raleigh misceo (500)
https://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/misceo-12/
marin muirwoods 29er (630 at rei)
https://www.marinbikes.com/2012/bike_...Muirwoods_29er
trek 9th district (800)
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...9th_district/#
trek pdx (640) or 7.3FX disc (800)
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...lity/pdx/pdx/#
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes.../7_3_fx_disc/#
KHS urban excel (769)
https://www.khsbicycles.com/06_urban_xcel_12.htm
scott sub 20 (900)
https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/pr...bike-sub-20-m/
the marin and KHS are steel frames, not sure if that's good (comfort) or bad (weight).
these are all in my price range, just trying to figure out which is best bang for buck as far as better components, upright riding position, etc.
I'm open to other suggestions, but I want a black or simple matte color bike, no flashy or crazy paint jobs.
any feedback/input is greatly appreciated.
thanks.
bike will be used for commuting 6 miles round trip daily on crappy NYC streets, maybe some longer rides occassionally.
I've test rode most of these bikes, and they all kinda feel the same. that's probably b/c I haven't rode a bike in 20+years.
I want more of an upright/comfortable riding position (bad lower back), so if any of these bikes are road bike style geometry, I would rule that out.
I've narrowed my options down to these:
2011 giant seek 2 ($600) or 2012 seek3 (700)
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/....2/7342/44058/
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/....3/9016/48860/
raleigh misceo (500)
https://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/misceo-12/
marin muirwoods 29er (630 at rei)
https://www.marinbikes.com/2012/bike_...Muirwoods_29er
trek 9th district (800)
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...9th_district/#
trek pdx (640) or 7.3FX disc (800)
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...lity/pdx/pdx/#
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes.../7_3_fx_disc/#
KHS urban excel (769)
https://www.khsbicycles.com/06_urban_xcel_12.htm
scott sub 20 (900)
https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/pr...bike-sub-20-m/
the marin and KHS are steel frames, not sure if that's good (comfort) or bad (weight).
these are all in my price range, just trying to figure out which is best bang for buck as far as better components, upright riding position, etc.
I'm open to other suggestions, but I want a black or simple matte color bike, no flashy or crazy paint jobs.
any feedback/input is greatly appreciated.
thanks.
03-25-12, 11:43 AM
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IMHO you only have two real choices from that list.
The KHS Urban XCel and the Marin Muirwoods 29er. They're both made of chromoly steel and can be upgraded indefinitely, because they'll outlast all of their components twenty times over. You can't say that about any of the other candidates. If you should decide to upgrade to 105 componentry in a couple years, so be it! Then you'll have one of the smoothest hybrid transmissions available. Your tire range is such that you can ride with wider tires or skinnier tires. It's up to you!
Good Luck!
- Slim
PS.
The Muirwoods will accept fenders and a rack. I don't think that the XCel will...
The KHS Urban XCel and the Marin Muirwoods 29er. They're both made of chromoly steel and can be upgraded indefinitely, because they'll outlast all of their components twenty times over. You can't say that about any of the other candidates. If you should decide to upgrade to 105 componentry in a couple years, so be it! Then you'll have one of the smoothest hybrid transmissions available. Your tire range is such that you can ride with wider tires or skinnier tires. It's up to you!
Good Luck!
- Slim
PS.
The Muirwoods will accept fenders and a rack. I don't think that the XCel will...
Last edited by SlimRider; 03-26-12 at 07:49 AM.
03-25-12, 12:08 PM
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what's 105 componentry?
would you say all these bikes, since they are similar in price range, are all similar in quality of components, with the only big diff. being steel or aluminum frame?
I've read that the marin and khs bikes are quite heavy. is that something I should be concerned about?
would you say all these bikes, since they are similar in price range, are all similar in quality of components, with the only big diff. being steel or aluminum frame?
I've read that the marin and khs bikes are quite heavy. is that something I should be concerned about?
03-25-12, 12:46 PM
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105 is a Shimano road-oriented component group of a quality which makes it an excellent bang-for-the-buck upgrade to any of these bikes. In my opinion, the crankset, rear derailleur, brakes and shifters, in that order, are the places where you want to maximize the quality of your components. The list you gave above is pretty price-faithful in terms of quality - the most-expensive Scott has (overall) the highest-quality componentry. Shimano XT/Deore/Alivio (in that order of quality) are the mountain bike equivalent groupsets, and I'd rate the XT level even with or slightly better than 105.
There isn't going to be a staggering range of weight difference between all of them, certainly not enough to make a notable difference to your riding style. My hybrid is 25lbs from the factory, plus 5lbs of rack/bag/tools at all times, and I don't have much problem going fast on a 30lb bike. I'm guessing all of the bikes above will be in that general range.
Far more important is fit, especially in view of your back. There's not a whole lot of adjustability built in - the seat height will be dictated by your most-efficient pedaling motion, the seat-bar reach is dictated by frame size with slight seat back-and-forth adjustment (which then in turn affects your pedaling motion), and the handlebar location will be fixed depending on your dealer's willingness to switch out for a longer or shorter stem if necessary. The length of the crank arms is also very important to your efficient pedaling motion and comfort. Fit is critical. What seems fine on a short test ride might not be so much fun, ridden every single day, so be insistent about the dealer helping you with a good fit. That's what they're there for. Down the road, adjustable stems are available which would allow you to vary the handlebar position if necessary.
Of the group you listed, I like the Scott the best and (even though I'm a diehard fan of steel) recommended it in another thread here. I like disc brakes on the street - far less sensitive to wet weather - and I like the Scott's componentry.
There isn't going to be a staggering range of weight difference between all of them, certainly not enough to make a notable difference to your riding style. My hybrid is 25lbs from the factory, plus 5lbs of rack/bag/tools at all times, and I don't have much problem going fast on a 30lb bike. I'm guessing all of the bikes above will be in that general range.
Far more important is fit, especially in view of your back. There's not a whole lot of adjustability built in - the seat height will be dictated by your most-efficient pedaling motion, the seat-bar reach is dictated by frame size with slight seat back-and-forth adjustment (which then in turn affects your pedaling motion), and the handlebar location will be fixed depending on your dealer's willingness to switch out for a longer or shorter stem if necessary. The length of the crank arms is also very important to your efficient pedaling motion and comfort. Fit is critical. What seems fine on a short test ride might not be so much fun, ridden every single day, so be insistent about the dealer helping you with a good fit. That's what they're there for. Down the road, adjustable stems are available which would allow you to vary the handlebar position if necessary.
Of the group you listed, I like the Scott the best and (even though I'm a diehard fan of steel) recommended it in another thread here. I like disc brakes on the street - far less sensitive to wet weather - and I like the Scott's componentry.
03-25-12, 12:54 PM
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You're in NYC--will you be having to carry your bike up three flights of stairs? Steel has a reputation for being heavier than aluminum, but sometimes you can't tell the difference between two different bikes. Steel typically feels like a smoother ride than aluminum. Tire width can also influence the feel of your ride.
105 componentry refers to Shimano 105 derailleurs, and other components. 105 is a very well respected groupset, probably the best for what the average person riding on city streets, and not doing any racing, would need. There's a thread on Shimano's derailleur hierarchy here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rachy-Question
For what you describe, I wouldn't worry about the derailleurs or other components now, but instead focus on the bike that fits you well, feels comfortable, and it's something that you'll look forward to riding. The Marin Muirwoods 29er (they also have another Muirwoods model with 26x1/4" tires and V-brakes in stead of discs) gets pretty good reviews from people who have ridden them (Marins seem kind of hard to find, unfortunately).
Are you going to be using a rack, need fenders, etc.? Also something to consider.
105 componentry refers to Shimano 105 derailleurs, and other components. 105 is a very well respected groupset, probably the best for what the average person riding on city streets, and not doing any racing, would need. There's a thread on Shimano's derailleur hierarchy here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rachy-Question
For what you describe, I wouldn't worry about the derailleurs or other components now, but instead focus on the bike that fits you well, feels comfortable, and it's something that you'll look forward to riding. The Marin Muirwoods 29er (they also have another Muirwoods model with 26x1/4" tires and V-brakes in stead of discs) gets pretty good reviews from people who have ridden them (Marins seem kind of hard to find, unfortunately).
Are you going to be using a rack, need fenders, etc.? Also something to consider.
03-25-12, 01:54 PM
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I see.
well perhaps I will go test ride a few of these bikes again as frame/fitment is most imp't factor.
I was hoping the LBS or REI could insstall a riser on the handlebars for me and maybe cut down the width on some of the bars if need be. I will inquire with them before purchsing a bike.
makes sense the scott has better components as it's the highest priced of the group. is the aluminum fork a negative?
well perhaps I will go test ride a few of these bikes again as frame/fitment is most imp't factor.
I was hoping the LBS or REI could insstall a riser on the handlebars for me and maybe cut down the width on some of the bars if need be. I will inquire with them before purchsing a bike.
makes sense the scott has better components as it's the highest priced of the group. is the aluminum fork a negative?
105 is a Shimano road-oriented component group of a quality which makes it an excellent bang-for-the-buck upgrade to any of these bikes. In my opinion, the crankset, rear derailleur, brakes and shifters, in that order, are the places where you want to maximize the quality of your components. The list you gave above is pretty price-faithful in terms of quality - the most-expensive Scott has (overall) the highest-quality componentry. Shimano XT/Deore/Alivio (in that order of quality) are the mountain bike equivalent groupsets, and I'd rate the XT level even with or slightly better than 105.
There isn't going to be a staggering range of weight difference between all of them, certainly not enough to make a notable difference to your riding style. My hybrid is 25lbs from the factory, plus 5lbs of rack/bag/tools at all times, and I don't have much problem going fast on a 30lb bike. I'm guessing all of the bikes above will be in that general range.
Far more important is fit, especially in view of your back. There's not a whole lot of adjustability built in - the seat height will be dictated by your most-efficient pedaling motion, the seat-bar reach is dictated by frame size with slight seat back-and-forth adjustment (which then in turn affects your pedaling motion), and the handlebar location will be fixed depending on your dealer's willingness to switch out for a longer or shorter stem if necessary. The length of the crank arms is also very important to your efficient pedaling motion and comfort. Fit is critical. What seems fine on a short test ride might not be so much fun, ridden every single day, so be insistent about the dealer helping you with a good fit. That's what they're there for. Down the road, adjustable stems are available which would allow you to vary the handlebar position if necessary.
Of the group you listed, I like the Scott the best and (even though I'm a diehard fan of steel) recommended it in another thread here. I like disc brakes on the street - far less sensitive to wet weather - and I like the Scott's componentry.
There isn't going to be a staggering range of weight difference between all of them, certainly not enough to make a notable difference to your riding style. My hybrid is 25lbs from the factory, plus 5lbs of rack/bag/tools at all times, and I don't have much problem going fast on a 30lb bike. I'm guessing all of the bikes above will be in that general range.
Far more important is fit, especially in view of your back. There's not a whole lot of adjustability built in - the seat height will be dictated by your most-efficient pedaling motion, the seat-bar reach is dictated by frame size with slight seat back-and-forth adjustment (which then in turn affects your pedaling motion), and the handlebar location will be fixed depending on your dealer's willingness to switch out for a longer or shorter stem if necessary. The length of the crank arms is also very important to your efficient pedaling motion and comfort. Fit is critical. What seems fine on a short test ride might not be so much fun, ridden every single day, so be insistent about the dealer helping you with a good fit. That's what they're there for. Down the road, adjustable stems are available which would allow you to vary the handlebar position if necessary.
Of the group you listed, I like the Scott the best and (even though I'm a diehard fan of steel) recommended it in another thread here. I like disc brakes on the street - far less sensitive to wet weather - and I like the Scott's componentry.
03-25-12, 01:59 PM
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I won't be carrying the bike up stairs at all. and no rack/fenders...at least for now.
the marin bike is available at REI for 700 with 10% off if I become a member ($10 fee). I really like the look of that bike most out of all of them, so I will test ride that again. my only concern with this bike is the weight, but seems most people suggest it's not something to worry about.
what am I looking for when test riding these bikes? just seeing if I am comfortable on the bike? sorry if this is a dumb question, but I haven't owned a bike in 20 years and was never a serious rider, so most of the bikes feel very similar to me.
the marin bike is available at REI for 700 with 10% off if I become a member ($10 fee). I really like the look of that bike most out of all of them, so I will test ride that again. my only concern with this bike is the weight, but seems most people suggest it's not something to worry about.
what am I looking for when test riding these bikes? just seeing if I am comfortable on the bike? sorry if this is a dumb question, but I haven't owned a bike in 20 years and was never a serious rider, so most of the bikes feel very similar to me.
You're in NYC--will you be having to carry your bike up three flights of stairs? Steel has a reputation for being heavier than aluminum, but sometimes you can't tell the difference between two different bikes. Steel typically feels like a smoother ride than aluminum. Tire width can also influence the feel of your ride.
105 componentry refers to Shimano 105 derailleurs, and other components. 105 is a very well respected groupset, probably the best for what the average person riding on city streets, and not doing any racing, would need. There's a thread on Shimano's derailleur hierarchy here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rachy-Question
For what you describe, I wouldn't worry about the derailleurs or other components now, but instead focus on the bike that fits you well, feels comfortable, and it's something that you'll look forward to riding. The Marin Muirwoods 29er (they also have another Muirwoods model with 26x1/4" tires and V-brakes in stead of discs) gets pretty good reviews from people who have ridden them (Marins seem kind of hard to find, unfortunately).
Are you going to be using a rack, need fenders, etc.? Also something to consider.
105 componentry refers to Shimano 105 derailleurs, and other components. 105 is a very well respected groupset, probably the best for what the average person riding on city streets, and not doing any racing, would need. There's a thread on Shimano's derailleur hierarchy here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rachy-Question
For what you describe, I wouldn't worry about the derailleurs or other components now, but instead focus on the bike that fits you well, feels comfortable, and it's something that you'll look forward to riding. The Marin Muirwoods 29er (they also have another Muirwoods model with 26x1/4" tires and V-brakes in stead of discs) gets pretty good reviews from people who have ridden them (Marins seem kind of hard to find, unfortunately).
Are you going to be using a rack, need fenders, etc.? Also something to consider.
03-25-12, 02:02 PM
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I see.
well perhaps I will go test ride a few of these bikes again as frame/fitment is most imp't factor.
I was hoping the LBS or REI could insstall a riser on the handlebars for me and maybe cut down the width on some of the bars if need be. I will inquire with them before purchsing a bike.
makes sense the scott has better components as it's the highest priced of the group. is the aluminum fork a negative?
well perhaps I will go test ride a few of these bikes again as frame/fitment is most imp't factor.
I was hoping the LBS or REI could insstall a riser on the handlebars for me and maybe cut down the width on some of the bars if need be. I will inquire with them before purchsing a bike.
makes sense the scott has better components as it's the highest priced of the group. is the aluminum fork a negative?
- Slim
03-25-12, 04:18 PM
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You can diddle around a little to get the proper seat-bar relationship while maintaining a good pedaling position. A little larger frame and shorter seat post will give you a longer reach to the bars, while a slightly smaller frame with a taller seat will shorten that distance while still getting the pedals right. Pedaling efficiency is #1 - you adjust the other stuff to it since there's only one seat-pedal distance that works for your specific legs.
Rule of thumb for a bike like this: Sit in riding position, hands on the grips. Remove your hands from the grips, staying in place just with back muscles. It'll take some effort, but that effort shouldn't be a strain.
If you like the Muirwoods, that's important. You have to be able to live with it, and it's a pretty darn good machine on its' own.
Rule of thumb for a bike like this: Sit in riding position, hands on the grips. Remove your hands from the grips, staying in place just with back muscles. It'll take some effort, but that effort shouldn't be a strain.
If you like the Muirwoods, that's important. You have to be able to live with it, and it's a pretty darn good machine on its' own.
03-25-12, 04:41 PM
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the bike on display at REI was a 20.5, so the lady had me test ride that one. but according to the marin website, a rider my height (5'11) fits a 19.5 size. should I try to test ride both sizes?
also, what are the (dis)advantages of the 29er over the other 26 bikes?
also, what are the (dis)advantages of the 29er over the other 26 bikes?
You can diddle around a little to get the proper seat-bar relationship while maintaining a good pedaling position. A little larger frame and shorter seat post will give you a longer reach to the bars, while a slightly smaller frame with a taller seat will shorten that distance while still getting the pedals right. Pedaling efficiency is #1 - you adjust the other stuff to it since there's only one seat-pedal distance that works for your specific legs.
Rule of thumb for a bike like this: Sit in riding position, hands on the grips. Remove your hands from the grips, staying in place just with back muscles. It'll take some effort, but that effort shouldn't be a strain.
If you like the Muirwoods, that's important. You have to be able to live with it, and it's a pretty darn good machine on its' own.
Rule of thumb for a bike like this: Sit in riding position, hands on the grips. Remove your hands from the grips, staying in place just with back muscles. It'll take some effort, but that effort shouldn't be a strain.
If you like the Muirwoods, that's important. You have to be able to live with it, and it's a pretty darn good machine on its' own.
03-25-12, 05:46 PM
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Hey there Kochise,
Larger diameter wheels tend to roll over crevices, holes, rocks, and roots much better than smaller diameter wheels. While 29er's tend to stay on track better and resist interference, the 26er's are easier to accelerate. However, once they've been accelerated, they require more energy to maintain their speeds. A rock, a hole, or a root, can more easily disturb the direction of the 26er, than the 29er. 29er's maintain their momentum much easier. Therefore, 29ers require less energy to pedal longer distances.
- Slim
Larger diameter wheels tend to roll over crevices, holes, rocks, and roots much better than smaller diameter wheels. While 29er's tend to stay on track better and resist interference, the 26er's are easier to accelerate. However, once they've been accelerated, they require more energy to maintain their speeds. A rock, a hole, or a root, can more easily disturb the direction of the 26er, than the 29er. 29er's maintain their momentum much easier. Therefore, 29ers require less energy to pedal longer distances.
- Slim
Last edited by SlimRider; 03-25-12 at 10:03 PM.
03-25-12, 07:16 PM
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thanks slim.
the marin has 'locking quick release axles'. what does that mean?
the marin has 'locking quick release axles'. what does that mean?
Hey there Kochise,
Larger diameter wheels tend to roll over crevices, holes, rocks, and roots much better than smaller diameter wheels. While 29er's tend to stay on track better and resist interference, the 26er's are easier to accelerate. However, once they've been accelerated, they require more energy to maintain their speeds. A rock, a hole, or a root, can more easily disturb the direction of the 26er, than the 29er. 29er's manitain their momentum much easier. Therefore, they require less energy to maintain momentum.
- Slim
Larger diameter wheels tend to roll over crevices, holes, rocks, and roots much better than smaller diameter wheels. While 29er's tend to stay on track better and resist interference, the 26er's are easier to accelerate. However, once they've been accelerated, they require more energy to maintain their speeds. A rock, a hole, or a root, can more easily disturb the direction of the 26er, than the 29er. 29er's manitain their momentum much easier. Therefore, they require less energy to maintain momentum.
- Slim
03-25-12, 07:44 PM
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The axels that secure your wheels to the bike frame are often "quick release"--you flip a lever on one side to open it, and the wheel easily comes out of the frame. You secure it by putting the wheel back in, and close the lever. If you don't secure both wheels when you lock up your bike, someone can come along and just open up one of the quick releases and make off with a wheel (yes, this does happen). A locking quick release locks the wheels on to the axel, and makes it very difficult to remove a wheel without a special lock key (which you'll need to hold on to!).
03-25-12, 07:52 PM
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i bought the misceo last month from the local bike shop and i love it. like u i also havent ridin a bike for a loooong time. loved the simple matte black. and i shopped around and. came back to the same shop a couple of times. so when i finaly told them im ready to buy they let me do layaway. and i talked them down to $400 instead of the 500 so see if they will deal with u. its worth a shot. good luck on ur purchase
03-25-12, 08:12 PM
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yeh, that matte black misceo is killer looking. glad you're happy with it. raleigh seems to have a great reputation.
i bought the misceo last month from the local bike shop and i love it. like u i also havent ridin a bike for a loooong time. loved the simple matte black. and i shopped around and. came back to the same shop a couple of times. so when i finaly told them im ready to buy they let me do layaway. and i talked them down to $400 instead of the 500 so see if they will deal with u. its worth a shot. good luck on ur purchase
03-25-12, 09:46 PM
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When test riding a bike, try all of the gears on the bike. If the chainrings and cassettes on those bikes have different sizes, you'll have different gears available. The gears available on my road are pretty closely spaced which I like. On the hybrid, the rear cassette covers a very wide range. When I shift from one gear to the next, there is a big change in the gear ratio. I prefer the road ratios and will probably change the cassette on my hybrid.
The 26 vs 29 might have similar issues with gear ranges. I generally ride on the roads. With my MTB, I can use the top gear and only be going 25 mph. On the road bike, I can go well over 30 mph in top gear. Similarly at the low end.
I agree with fit being most important. It trumps color :-/
The 26 vs 29 might have similar issues with gear ranges. I generally ride on the roads. With my MTB, I can use the top gear and only be going 25 mph. On the road bike, I can go well over 30 mph in top gear. Similarly at the low end.
I agree with fit being most important. It trumps color :-/
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Big Dave Crowe
Hybrid Bicycles
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08-24-17 06:27 PM
MikeDVB
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05-19-14 07:16 PM
