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Old 02-21-12, 12:28 AM   #1
jsdavis
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Brake time...

My Marin Muirwoods 29er came with Hayes MX4 cable operated disc brake which has been the least satisfactory component on the bike. The brake has one static pad and one actuated by the brake lever. The rotor deflects when the brakes are actuated.

My main annoyance is that the rotor is so close to the static pad that I'm adjusting it maybe once or twice a week with 5mm Allen key where I have to give it maybe 1/16 or 1/8 turn. It moves pad maybe less than 1mm. Any more than that and the rotor will brush against the friction material. The caliper itself has no adjustment other than the adjust for the cable and the knob for the inner static pad which moves it in and out only. Even with as little as a 300 ft descent I've found my self having to adjust the brakes at the bottom because my back brakes become more effective than the front which is pretty scary. And no it's not due to heating because the front brake won't work well again until after I adjust it even if I ride around slowly and let it cool for the next 20 minutes.

My riding is 100% urban so I'm stopping or slowing probably at least every 500 ft for intersections. And living in San Francisco, hills are a part of life. Climbing and descending 300-400 vertical feet with 8-15% grades is just another commute, grocery, or errand ride.

I've been debating on go with either Avid BB7 or Shimano Deore brakes. For Avid BB7, I can still use my existing levers and they're only $100ish for front and rear with new rotors. New levers looks like only $25 or so anyway for Speed Dial 7... For the Shimano Deore hydraulics, it will be $180 or so for pre-bled set of front and rear brakes but without new rotors.

Any reason to pick one over the other? And yes I realize that the Shimano Deore brakes is more than 1/3 the cost of my bike. Or maybe I should just upgrade the front brake...

I guess the bright side is that the friction material on my Muirwoods has lasted some 10 months but needs replacement soon. My coworker has completely worn out the V-brakes on his 7.4FX and has only had it since October.

Last edited by jsdavis; 02-21-12 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 02-21-12, 01:54 AM   #2
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I upgraded my Hays Hydraulic brakes to the Deore Hydraulic brakes. I have not regretted it. It is smoother then pretty much most of my riding buddy's brakes who have Avids. Not saying that ALL Avids are not smooth, but at least the guys i ride with say that my brakes are the best feeling brakes they have ever tried...that says a lot.
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Old 02-21-12, 10:46 PM   #3
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Did you get them off ebay? I noticed that there are a few Deore hydraulic brake sets for sale from South Asia and Hong Kong. Did you use Shimano rotors too?
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Old 02-21-12, 11:31 PM   #4
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I got the Deore's from my LBS. The rotors are still Hays. I kinda wished they were Deore..i will upgrade them when they are worn out.
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Old 02-21-12, 11:42 PM   #5
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Thats is for the M596 brakes? How much did you pay for them? I got the prices above from Jenson USA and Universal Cycles.
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Old 02-22-12, 01:33 AM   #6
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I was hesitant to comment on your post, because I'm not the biggest fan of disk brakes anyway. But you would be going from Hayes bottom of the barrel, to Avids Best. Just get the BB7's like you mentioned, there also lighter and you will save some cash, and get a HUGE upgrade that you will love. I'm not hating on Hayes or Hydros, just think that the BB7's are the best bang for the buck. : )
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Old 02-22-12, 02:14 AM   #7
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I was hesitant to comment on your post, because I'm not the biggest fan of disk brakes anyway. But you would be going from Hayes bottom of the barrel, to Avids Best. Just get the BB7's like you mentioned, there also lighter and you will save some cash, and get a HUGE upgrade that you will love. I'm not hating on Hayes or Hydros, just think that the BB7's are the best bang for the buck. : )
Price link : http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/187...p=115%20AVDB78

Tektro mechanical disc brakes (verses) Avid Juicy 3, I have Youtube video's on both, Tektro's worked as good if not better, and less hassel for sure. Have had BB5's before and worked fine, but never had BB7's...

Found this old link on BF: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-143907.html Did not read it though.

Might not match my post, but could help you on your decision. Richard : )
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Old 02-22-12, 02:30 AM   #8
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Just get yourself the Shimano hydraulic, no matter what people say about the BB7's, a good set of mechanical will never be as good as a good set of hydraulics (Shimano don't make any bad ones). You won't regret the Deore hydraulics.
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Old 02-22-12, 02:38 AM   #9
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Just get yourself the Shimano hydraulic, no matter what people say about the BB7's, a good set of mechanical will never be as good as a good set of hydraulics (Shimano don't make any bad ones). You won't regret the Deore hydraulics.
But would he REGRET the BB7's ?
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Old 02-22-12, 02:51 AM   #10
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But would he REGRET the BB7's ?
He mentioned that he was 100 % URBAN riding, not down hill racing. And was making reference to (cost verse's benefit). It's hard to be wrong when you say BUY the best, but are shopping with someone else's wallet.
Just Saying........
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Old 02-22-12, 03:11 AM   #11
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Thats is for the M596 brakes? How much did you pay for them? I got the prices above from Jenson USA and Universal Cycles.
I got a deal for them because they were a brand new swap when i got the bike. I think i got them for $100 including the Hays Brakes swap. And yes, they are the M596's.
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Old 02-22-12, 03:36 AM   #12
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http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...4675cd17621514

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/219...Brake-2011.htm

Just shopping.. At least look at these before you buy the Deore. But I still think the BB7's are just FINE.
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Old 02-22-12, 04:41 AM   #13
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I got a deal for them because they were a brand new swap when i got the bike. I think i got them for $100 including the Hays Brakes swap. And yes, they are the M596's.
I just wanted you to know that nothing I mentioned in reference to his choice on brakes reflects to yours. You probably have one of the most versatile Hybrids on the forum, and your video's are better than some posted on the Youtube for Mountain Biking. So please do not take anything I posted out of context. (keep the video's coming) Richard
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Old 02-22-12, 05:36 AM   #14
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He mentioned that he was 100 % URBAN riding, not down hill racing. And was making reference to (cost verse's benefit). It's hard to be wrong when you say BUY the best, but are shopping with someone else's wallet.
Just Saying........
And Deore are not somthing you would use for DH racing, the OP suggested the Deores vs BB7's, and at the end of the day, they will be paying; but good hydraulics will always be better than good mechanical.
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Old 02-22-12, 11:14 AM   #15
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And Deore are not somthing you would use for DH racing, the OP suggested the Deores vs BB7's, and at the end of the day, they will be paying; but good hydraulics will always be better than good mechanical.
For the sake of of this debate, lets just say your right. And all city commuter bikes need to be outfitted with Deore Hydraulic Brakes.
I do not even care to look up the V- brakes that came on his coworkers Trek FX 7.4, but replacing those will take all of 20 minutes and less than 30.00 dollars.

http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-High-Pe.../dp/B003ZKHPL4

http://www.rei.com/product/751341/sh...:referralID=NA

Unless he goes with your advice, and will need new hubs, rotors, brakes, levers, plus the labor if he can't do it himself.
Wonder what that is going to cost him ? Thank God I find almost ALL decent V-brakes provide good stopping power under normal riding conditions, and we are on the HYBRID Forum, not the MTB.....
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Old 02-22-12, 11:57 AM   #16
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Go with the BB7 if you want a quick change out and new rotors.

Go with the Deore if you really honestly think you need hydraulic brakes on PAVEMENT. Hint: you don't need more than rim brakes! My v-brakes have worked to slow down from 50mph with knobbies and a 220lb me on top... So I would go with BB7 if I was you. I likely will, someday when I want to also build myself new wheels...So, when my rims wear out or bend.
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Old 02-22-12, 02:01 PM   #17
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the only edge I see over the BB7s is lever effort. the BB7s have great modulation. cable stretch is over and done with after a few rides. no messing with brake fluid or mineral oil, no bleeding... easy peasy.
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Old 02-22-12, 08:02 PM   #18
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No brakes replacement for the Trek 7.4FX, that's my colleague's bike that's not getting upgrade. Heck, that bike would need a new fork for disc brake. Pretty sure the rear doesn't even have the mounts. The only reason I even brought it up is because I noted how he's managed to completely wear out his pads in only a few months and I'm pretty sure I ride more than him.

The brakes in question are for my Marin Muirwoods which already has disc brakes in place, just that they're not very good ones.

And to be fair, disc brakes were not one of my criteria when I bought my bike. It's just that the bike I ended liking came with them. I wanted 700c wheels on a rigid frame that was comfortable and fit me. Nice to have but not required was full Deore drivetrain (cranks, shifters, FD, RD, chain, cassette). Steel, aluminum, rim brakes, disc brakes, I didn't care so much.

Yes, I roll on 700x42 tires and I really don't need something that big on pavement either, but it makes the ride much more bearable for me even if it's slower -- I'm not racing to get home.

I had a Trek 7.5FX with V-brakes and those worked just fine, at the minimum at least those were self-centering which I can't say the same about the Hayes MX4 which doesn't have such an adjustment.

The main reason I even want to upgrade is because the constant maintenance on the Hayes are a PITA. If the caliper could move even 1 or 2mm I would be happy and this discussion would not be taking place. But because the caliper is fixed in one position, it only allows the inner pad to be exposed just enough so that the rotor doesn't scrub the caliper when it deflects. Not adjusting the inner pad results in severely degraded performance -- I've been in situations where the back brake is more powerful than the front.

Last edited by jsdavis; 02-22-12 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 02-22-12, 09:08 PM   #19
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If I am getting Avid BB7, is it necessary to replace the cables and housing at this time or can I use the existing ones? The cables and housing are less than a year old and have maybe 3-4000 miles on them. I'm told for my area I will need stainless cables when time comes to replace them.
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Old 02-23-12, 01:50 AM   #20
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I just wanted you to know that nothing I mentioned in reference to his choice on brakes reflects to yours. You probably have one of the most versatile Hybrids on the forum, and your video's are better than some posted on the Youtube for Mountain Biking. So please do not take anything I posted out of context. (keep the video's coming) Richard
Richard..its all good brotha! WE all family here and we all love the same thing..Riding! You keep your vids coming as well! =)

--Charlie
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