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  1. #1
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    Deore RD upgrade on Fuji Absolute? Deore types?

    Hi,

    I just got a Fuji Absolute 4.0 for the lady and overall, the bike is fits our needs: the adjustable stem has been very useful, it's upright enough, and we're satisfied with the brakes. However, she says that the gears don't shift well. She also doesn't like the grips and the grip shifts, but it just might take some time to get used to. It could be that rear derailleur just needs some fine tuning, but I haven't played with it TOO much yet. I'm thinking that if it's still an issue, here's my upgrade list:
    -short grip shift grips to regular grips (any recommendations?)
    -grip shift to trigger shift
    -tourney RD to deore RD

    Here are a couple of questions for you:
    -do I need to change the chain as well since the deore is 9 speed? even though we are keeping the cassettes?
    -is the trigger shift supposed to be a 7-speed since it's 7 speed cassette? or should it be 9 speed, and ignore 2 of the 7?
    -what's the difference in the deore line? there's a price difference for m510 and m591/592. i think i need the sgs since we have the 34T megarange, but thee m510 also says it's highest capacity is 34T.

    -Is this a bit ridiculous to mix and match components? I don't get why bike companies have higher components only on more expensive bikes... we don't ride hard at all, i'd just want a bike that shifts on demand without the slightest hesitation and minimal adjustment: the hubs, bb, etc are probably okay not to change.

    thanks in advance!

    http://2010.fujibikes.com/LifeStyle/...bsolute40.aspx

  2. #2
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    For the RD

    Deore M510's are a 10 year old design, they work fine, but finding one now could be hard

    Deore M591/2 will work fine for 7/8/9 speed (no need to change the chain)

    M591 = non shadow
    M592 = shadow

    Shadow is the mount, the shadow is much closer to the cassette than the non shadow, for your needs, the non shadow is fine

    For size, the Deore only comes is SGS (super long cage) so this is not an issue

    For the shifters

    Why get 9 speed when you only have a 7 speed cassette, however can you get 7 speed? as not much as been made in 7 speed for years now.

    It maybe easier to get a 9 speed shifter, and live with out the use of 2 clicks, this is done with Shimano road flat bar shifters, and the front shifter when using a double crank, have had a setup like this for 5 years now.

  3. #3
    Senior Member EsoxLucius's Avatar
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    I'd change out to Shimano SL-R440/SL-R441 shifters and actually look at a Shimano Tiagra rear deraileur, which is what is used on the Fuji Absolute 2.0. At some point then you could replace the cassette with a 9 ring Tiagra.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    The number of speeds on the shifter MUST equal the number of speeds on the cassette!

    Cassette spacing is different between the various speeds, so you can't "just ignore" the other 2 clicks.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by quimming View Post
    Hi,

    I just got a Fuji Absolute 4.0 for the lady and overall, the bike is fits our needs: the adjustable stem has been very useful, it's upright enough, and we're satisfied with the brakes. However, she says that the gears don't shift well. She also doesn't like the grips and the grip shifts, but it just might take some time to get used to. It could be that rear derailleur just needs some fine tuning, but I haven't played with it TOO much yet. I'm thinking that if it's still an issue, here's my upgrade list:
    -short grip shift grips to regular grips (any recommendations?)
    -grip shift to trigger shift
    -tourney RD to deore RD


    Here are a couple of questions for you:
    -do I need to change the chain as well since the deore is 9 speed? even though we are keeping the cassettes?
    -is the trigger shift supposed to be a 7-speed since it's 7 speed cassette? or should it be 9 speed, and ignore 2 of the 7?
    -what's the difference in the deore line? there's a price difference for m510 and m591/592. i think i need the sgs since we have the 34T megarange, but thee m510 also says it's highest capacity is 34T.

    -Is this a bit ridiculous to mix and match components? I don't get why bike companies have higher components only on more expensive bikes... we don't ride hard at all, i'd just want a bike that shifts on demand without the slightest hesitation and minimal adjustment: the hubs, bb, etc are probably okay not to change.

    thanks in advance!

    http://2010.fujibikes.com/LifeStyle/...bsolute40.aspx
    Like mention above. If you change to a 9 speed rear derailleur. You'll need to change the cassette, shifters, chain and probably the front derailleur also. If you are planing to keep it a 7 speed. Then I suggest you look into the Shimano Acera rear derailleur and shifters.

    For the handle bar grips. I recommend Ergon GP1 or any Ergon grips.
    Last edited by ChowChow; 04-18-12 at 02:57 PM.

  6. #6
    just pokin' along desertdork's Avatar
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    Your bike has a freewheel. You need a freeHUB to install a 9sp cassette. Moving up to 9-speed would require a new rear wheel... in addition to replacing most of the drivetrain.

    There's always the possibility that the bike needs a little tweaking. If you don't understand how to properly adjust derailleurs, don't guess; you'll probably just make matters worse. Either dig up some instructions online or at the library, or take the bike to the dealer. If you purchased the bike new, then the dealer should include at least one adjustment (Corrects for initial cable "stretch").

    But, regardless, don't expect an entry level drivetrain to shift as smoothly as what you'll find on mid- and upper-level bikes. The shifting mechanism in a $25 shifter set just isn't as refined as what you'll find in a $100+ shifter. And on that note, installing a $50 Deore RD (or $100 XT RD, for that matter) won't make for smoother shifting.

    If you want to go with the most practical option first, have a mechanic look at the current derailleur adjustments and cable tension. Give you wife a chance to get accustomed to the adjusted bike.

    If she still doesn't like the stock shifters, you could look into having some trigger, or "rapidfire," shifters installed. You can find 7-sp options from Shimano in both the Tourney and Acera product lines. I don't know how they compare, but SRAM TRX trigger shifters should be compatible with your bike as well.

    Mixing/matching components is fine as long as there are no compatibility issues, and many riders do so.

    I don't get why bike companies have higher components only on more expensive bikes...
    ???

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    For the RD

    Deore M510's are a 10 year old design, they work fine, but finding one now could be hard

    Deore M591/2 will work fine for 7/8/9 speed (no need to change the chain)

    M591 = non shadow
    M592 = shadow

    Shadow is the mount, the shadow is much closer to the cassette than the non shadow, for your needs, the non shadow is fine

    For size, the Deore only comes is SGS (super long cage) so this is not an issue
    Great info, thanks jimc101!

    Quote Originally Posted by EsoxLucius View Post
    I'd change out to Shimano SL-R440/SL-R441 shifters and actually look at a Shimano Tiagra rear deraileur, which is what is used on the Fuji Absolute 2.0. At some point then you could replace the cassette with a 9 ring Tiagra.
    I think the Tiagra cannot acoomodate 34T...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
    The number of speeds on the shifter MUST equal the number of speeds on the cassette!

    Cassette spacing is different between the various speeds, so you can't "just ignore" the other 2 clicks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowChow View Post
    Like mention above. If you change to a 9 speed rear derailleur. You'll need to change the cassette, shifters, chain and probably the front derailleur also. If you are planing to keep it a 7 speed. Then I suggest you look into the Shimano Acera rear derailleur and shifters.

    For the handle bar grips. I recommend Ergon GP1 or any Ergon grips.
    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before... I see things on the interwebs, including Sheldon Brown, that the RD are mostly swappable. 7/8/9 gears are all marketing and the shifting is really in the shifters and chain length, not the RD. Oh yes, and of course, the cassette. However, the idea I am entertaining is to keep the current cassette of 7 speeds, which includes a 34T bailout. A Deore and other RD say they can accommodate 34T, as long as it is a long cage. I am not looking to change the speeds of the bike to a 9-speed, just use the 9-speed Deore RD, because I think changing it to a 9 speed requires much more money in cassette, hub, wheel (?), chain, etc.

    What I want to know is:
    a) is this really possible? i'd like to hear from people who have done it successfully or failed. I can't seem to get a straight answer now, since there are clearly conflicting ideas.
    b) will the chain length change as well? since the Deore will have to be the long cage and will be a 9 speed, instead of the current 7, will I need a new chain too? (jmc101 answered this already)
    c) can I use a 9 speed shifter, tune it to go from 1-7 (ignoring 8-9) on the RD from large cog to small??? I could get a 7 speed trigger shifter, but if there is ever the possibility of upgrading to a 9 speed, then I could save a little money. Or is this impossible because the throw/cable pull is different for different designed shifter gear sizes?

    Quote Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
    Your bike has a freewheel. You need a freeHUB to install a 9sp cassette. Moving up to 9-speed would require a new rear wheel... in addition to replacing most of the drivetrain.

    There's always the possibility that the bike needs a little tweaking. If you don't understand how to properly adjust derailleurs, don't guess; you'll probably just make matters worse. Either dig up some instructions online or at the library, or take the bike to the dealer. If you purchased the bike new, then the dealer should include at least one adjustment (Corrects for initial cable "stretch").

    But, regardless, don't expect an entry level drivetrain to shift as smoothly as what you'll find on mid- and upper-level bikes. The shifting mechanism in a $25 shifter set just isn't as refined as what you'll find in a $100+ shifter. And on that note, installing a $50 Deore RD (or $100 XT RD, for that matter) won't make for smoother shifting.

    If you want to go with the most practical option first, have a mechanic look at the current derailleur adjustments and cable tension. Give you wife a chance to get accustomed to the adjusted bike.

    If she still doesn't like the stock shifters, you could look into having some trigger, or "rapidfire," shifters installed. You can find 7-sp options from Shimano in both the Tourney and Acera product lines. I don't know how they compare, but SRAM TRX trigger shifters should be compatible with your bike as well.

    Mixing/matching components is fine as long as there are no compatibility issues, and many riders do so.


    ???
    I think you're absolutely right, it could just need tweaking. I am just entertaining the idea so that I could price out the parts that I need, if I go down the path, so that I can buy them and have it all at once, instead of taking everything apart, putting new stuff in, and realizing I need something like a new chain (I'm sure something like that will happen, it always does). I'd also like to see how much things are in total, and what I can do minimally, i.e. if I don't have to change the whole drivetrain to get better shifting, then I won't. But again, I think you're right, it's probably just about adjusting the current set up.

    I have a bad habit of comparing everything to my first LBS bike, which wasn't very expensive, but built with high attention to detail. Even though it was only Shimano Altus, I was happy with the way it shifted. And this new Fuji we have just doesn't shift that way. So of course I blame the Tourney RD, since it's one on big-box-store bikes, instead of thinking that the current LBS just didn't tune it well enough, even after cable stretch and tune.

    I don't get why bike companies have higher components only on more expensive bikes
    I don't really know why I said this. It makes sense... I was just complaining because I would like "better" components on my cheaper bike. Maybe I just need a better tune.


    In the end, I might just keep the setup, so thanks for your time. It's an option i'm considering for the future, if it's not too much $$$ and if it will make things better.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
    Your bike has a freewheel. You need a freeHUB to install a 9sp cassette. Moving up to 9-speed would require a new rear wheel... in addition to replacing most of the drivetrain.

    ???
    hm. i think i get this now... sorry for using freewheel and cassette interchangeably

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by quimming View Post
    hm. i think i get this now... sorry for using freewheel and cassette interchangeably
    Hi,

    Did you get the Deore RD-M591 rear dearailleur?

    If so, how well is it shifting with the indexed 7-speed shifters?

    Thanks,

  10. #10
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    The shifting issue sounds like you just need some adjusting. Note,brand new bikes will have their cables 'stretch' initially and require adjusting after a few miles. Park Tool's site has the info you need:
    http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help


    Quote Originally Posted by ChowChow View Post
    Like mention above. If you change to a 9 speed rear derailleur. You'll need to change the cassette, shifters, chain and probably the front derailleur also.
    Incorrect. A 9spd rear derailleur will work for 7/8/9spd. The shifters control the indexing.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/F600/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes/Novato,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  11. #11
    Senior Member a1penguin's Avatar
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    You are talking about some pretty costly upgrades. Perhaps this is the wrong bike for your wife. Did you purchase it recently at LBS who might have a generous return policy?
    2012 Cannondale Synapse 3, 2012 Trek 7.5 FX Disc, 2003 Trek 2200 WSD, 1997 Specialized Rockhopper Al Comp

  12. #12
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    If she still doesn't like the stock shifters, you could look into having some trigger, or "rapidfire," shifters installed. You can find 7-sp options from Shimano in both the Tourney and Acera product lines. I don't know how they compare, but SRAM TRX trigger shifters should be compatible with your bike as well.
    Be careful mixing SRAM and Shimano deraillers/shifters. I tried to get the x7 series shifter to work with a deore rear derailler with no luck at all. I'm pretty sure SRAM makes shifters that work with Shimano deraillers but check its compatible first. I spent hours tweaking and the tension stops are just different.

  13. #13
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    shiver me timbers, i'm surprised this thread came back up. the bike is ~1 yr old now, so no returning it. i didn't do the upgrades... it just needed a little tune and we'll live with it for now. nice to see the discussion though, i still might try it in the future.

  14. #14
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krobinson103 View Post
    Be careful mixing SRAM and Shimano deraillers/shifters. I tried to get the x7 series shifter to work with a deore rear derailler with no luck at all. I'm pretty sure SRAM makes shifters that work with Shimano deraillers but check its compatible first. I spent hours tweaking and the tension stops are just different.
    SRAM Attack and Rocket shifters are Shimano compatible. All others are SRAM only. This is because SRAM uses 1:1 actuation ratio while Shimano uses 2:1.

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