Anyone ever tempted to ride without a helmet?
08-26-13, 04:23 AM
#101
the digitalmouse
Well it might have, but we don't have any information on how the accident happened. But I do agree, it's rather silly to say the helmet did it's job when DocsDad's friend needed facial repair and has a bone chip in his neck (where no helmet covers anyway). For all we know, the helmet caused the rider to get his head caught under a vehicle or to another moving object and was dragged. The 'outcome' DadsDoc hates to think about could also have been the lack of helmet might have allowed the rider to escape large injury by mere centimeters/millimeters in avoiding whatever caused the accident to begin with. We don't know if the rider made a riding mistake (crossing the road improperly, failing to signal, failed to strap the helmet on correctly, mis-judged the actions of a car driver, etc.) or it was a fault of the road, or another vehicle, or even the helmet itself was faulty (sooo many things can go wrong with 2-3 inches of cheap foam and plastic). We just don't have enough real data to go on.
I would not jump to the conclusion that a helmet that cracked "did it's job". A cracked helmet means the helmet *failed* and most likely transferred the excess energy upon cracking to the riders head/neck.
Anecdotes aside, it nice to hear that rider will recover to ride another day!
I, personally, use my head far better (by being alert to the environment around me, use mirrors, drive defensively when necessary) than what a helmet can provide. It's also come to my attention recently with a European study that car drivers tend to drive *closer* to cyclists that wear helmets, due to a perceived notion that the cyclist is *safer*. If that data holds any water (and so far it seems to from my own and others' observations in Copenhagen, Denmark - one of the cycling capitals of the world), I will remain helmetless indefinitely just for safety's sake!
I would not jump to the conclusion that a helmet that cracked "did it's job". A cracked helmet means the helmet *failed* and most likely transferred the excess energy upon cracking to the riders head/neck.
Anecdotes aside, it nice to hear that rider will recover to ride another day!
I, personally, use my head far better (by being alert to the environment around me, use mirrors, drive defensively when necessary) than what a helmet can provide. It's also come to my attention recently with a European study that car drivers tend to drive *closer* to cyclists that wear helmets, due to a perceived notion that the cyclist is *safer*. If that data holds any water (and so far it seems to from my own and others' observations in Copenhagen, Denmark - one of the cycling capitals of the world), I will remain helmetless indefinitely just for safety's sake!
08-26-13, 05:48 AM
#102
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Do you seriously believe that the UCI and others would enforce the use of helmets if it wouldn't have been proven in studies that riding with a helmet is safer than riding without one?
Do you also ride without a safety belt in cars? ... because -you know- a safety belt could kill you if you get stuck by it and your car burns out, right?
Do you also ride without a safety belt in cars? ... because -you know- a safety belt could kill you if you get stuck by it and your car burns out, right?
08-26-13, 07:44 AM
#103
the digitalmouse
Certainly, when barreling down a road at 60 kph in the Tour de France surrounded 30 other guys doing the same, a helmet *might* protect you against collisions of other riders or pedestrians. But as noted in countless race cycling fatality videos found on YouTube and elsewhere, a helmet *will not* save you from falling off a cliff or smashing into a truck. A helmet is NOT a panacea of safety, it can't protect your body, and it barely qualifies protecting your head under narrow conditions and perhaps a stroke of luck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._during_a_race
Speaking of bodies, have you noticed that in those race cycling crash videos, the riders tend to fall on their bodies, not their heads, tucking into a roll in most cases or sliding on their backs/butts. They have experience and/or training in rider safety, whereas 98% or more of day-to-day cyclists have none, regardless whether they wear a helmet or not. If people *used* their brain and kept a proper awareness of the world around them while following road-rules and some common sense, then you would likely see an even larger decrease in cycle-related injuries regardless of helmet use.
Now I'm not saying helmets are completely useless, they just have a narrow margin of safety that people accept as something that will save their lives in their entirety, and that's just stupid thinking.
If you want to wear a helmet, great! If you don't want to wear a helmet, great! Stop trying to prove points that break down under scrutiny, logic, a lack of consistently credible (and up-to-date) data.
The greater issue is your right to *choose*, not whether a myopic government should enforce something based on anecdotes and skewed methodology.
Nope, because I haven't ridden in a car since...1993. I thankfully live in Northern Europe where public transport and cycling infrastructure satisfies all my transportation needs. I don't even have a driver's license anymore.
Correction, I have rode in motor vehicles a few times over the past 20 years, and yes I wore a seatbelt in all cases, mostly because it's the law and admittedly seat belts make sense in motor vehicles. You cannot compare cycle helmets to shoulder seat belts. They protect the person in drastically different ways using drastically different vehicles. In a car you are fairly well protected by a *designed* cage, the seat belts try to keep you from bouncing around inside on impact. Helmets cannot provide the same level of care, unless you want to put a cage around you while you cycle. Oh wait! That's called a velomobile, and yes I ride one. Every day. All year around. Without needing a helmet. Sometimes even with the top down.
Lastly, the UCI only started making helmets mandatory relatively recently in it's 120 year history: https://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENew...lmets&LangId=1 - 2003 according to this article on the UCI website.
Last edited by digitalmouse; 08-26-13 at 07:53 AM.
08-26-13, 08:18 AM
#104
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Please read this:
https://www3.hants.gov.uk/dft_-_cycle_helmet_report.pdf
Are you seriously going to suggest that this study is the work of evil helmet manufacturers trying to convince us to wear one?
Isn't it blatantly obvious to you that head protection is simply better than no head protection in case of an accident with a blow to the head?
https://www3.hants.gov.uk/dft_-_cycle_helmet_report.pdf
Are you seriously going to suggest that this study is the work of evil helmet manufacturers trying to convince us to wear one?
Isn't it blatantly obvious to you that head protection is simply better than no head protection in case of an accident with a blow to the head?
08-26-13, 08:21 AM
#105
Full Member
The helmet is supposed to crack upon impact. It's not a design flaw or a failure.
08-26-13, 08:27 AM
#106
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According to the study I linked to that narrow margin is somewhere between 7% and 16%.
But:
We're not talking about a broken leg or twisted arm here.
We're talking about trauma to and fracture of the skull, which is potentially a much more severe injury.
Let me put it this way:
If they told me that I needed to pay only $50 to add an option to my car that would not limit me in any way and would decrease the chance of me suffering severe trauma to the head by an extra 7% to 16% ... I wouldn't hesitate to have it installed asap.
08-26-13, 09:41 AM
#107
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08-26-13, 03:52 PM
#110
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08-27-13, 09:59 AM
#112
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I do.
Do you seriously believe they are irrational?
Personally I don't care much for the UCI rules, since I never take part in mass start road races.
I do care, however, for the VTDL rules, which is the Flemish triathlon league.
They also dictate that helmets should be worn whenever one is racing.
They even check the tightness of the helmet and it's straps before allowing you in the transit zones at races.
Last year I did the "Triatlon van Vlaanderen" and the bike course was particularly wet and slippery.
I saw one guy miss a dangerous turn right in front of me.
He went completely over his handlebars and cracked his head in the ditch on some tree stumps.
Good thing he wore a helmet
Do you seriously believe they are irrational?
Personally I don't care much for the UCI rules, since I never take part in mass start road races.
I do care, however, for the VTDL rules, which is the Flemish triathlon league.
They also dictate that helmets should be worn whenever one is racing.
They even check the tightness of the helmet and it's straps before allowing you in the transit zones at races.
Last year I did the "Triatlon van Vlaanderen" and the bike course was particularly wet and slippery.
I saw one guy miss a dangerous turn right in front of me.
He went completely over his handlebars and cracked his head in the ditch on some tree stumps.
Good thing he wore a helmet
08-27-13, 10:21 AM
#113
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Lastly, the UCI only started making helmets mandatory relatively recently in it's 120 year history: https://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENew...lmets&LangId=1 - 2003 according to this article on the UCI website.
I still see a lot of loose-strapped helmets in pro pelotons. They're not wearing them for safety, they're wearing them because the have to.
08-27-13, 10:24 AM
#114
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I do.
Do you seriously believe they are irrational?
Personally I don't care much for the UCI rules, since I never take part in mass start road races.
I do care, however, for the VTDL rules, which is the Flemish triathlon league.
They also dictate that helmets should be worn whenever one is racing.
Do you seriously believe they are irrational?
Personally I don't care much for the UCI rules, since I never take part in mass start road races.
I do care, however, for the VTDL rules, which is the Flemish triathlon league.
They also dictate that helmets should be worn whenever one is racing.
08-27-13, 10:35 AM
#115
Junior Member
I haven't had my first adult crash yet, as ive just got back into cycling a few months ago. After a few close calls; riders almost crashing into me twice, wind gust pushing me very close to a fence, cars trying to make a right turn into me, ect... i picked up a uvex xp cc helmet. Better safe than sorry. And besides, it makes me look cool.
08-27-13, 11:52 PM
#117
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I just got into cycling and wasn't going to wear one, but decided that the old adage about being safe rather than sorry might hold some weight. I really dislike the looks of the aerodynamically correct bike helmets, so I picked up a bell faction helmet. I have yet to eat $h!t on my bike, and hopefully never will, but if I do I can at least say I tried to avert brain injury.
08-27-13, 11:59 PM
#118
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I wear a helmet for almost any kind of ride, assuming I can then carry it with me where ever I go. My helmet has lights and a Safezone mirror on it, all easily steal-able if I locked it to the bike. I have left it at home if I wanted to go out somewhere but didn't want to carry it around. Otherwise I'll even wear it for the 3 minute bike ride to the supermarket.
08-28-13, 12:14 PM
#119
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All these posts make me wonder if the place I live in is rather exceptional in that it requires bicyclists of all ages to wear a helmet?
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08-28-13, 12:55 PM
#120
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08-28-13, 01:13 PM
#121
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I don't think any US states have a statewide all ages helmet law, just cities and counties.
I'm pretty sure Washington state has the greatest population in the US under all ages helmet law. Seems stupid to me. The way they sold it in my city was by attaching a $5000 helmets for poor kids fund. So if the city counselor voted against he would be seen as a child killer, of course.
[TABLE="width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD]Washington State[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Aberdeen[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Auburn[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Bainbridge Island[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Bellevue[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Bremerton[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Des Moines[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]DuPont[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Duvall[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Eatonville[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1996[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Enumclaw[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Fircrest[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1995[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Gig Harbor[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1996[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hunts Point[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Island County: (Recommendation only.)[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1997[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Kent[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]King County[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Lakewood[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1996[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Milton[/TD]
[TD]All ages *[/TD]
[TD]1997[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Orting[/TD]
[TD]Under 17[/TD]
[TD]1997[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Pierce County[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1994[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Port Angeles[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1994[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Port Orchard[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Poulsbo[/TD]
[TD]Under 18[/TD]
[TD]1995[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Puyallup[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1994[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Renton[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Seatac[/TD]
[TD]All ages over 1 yr[/TD]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Seattle[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Snohomish city-wide ordinancerepealed[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Snohomish skate park only[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Snoqualmie[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1996[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Spokane[/TD]
[TD]All ages *[/TD]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Steilacoom[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1995[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tacoma[/TD]
[TD]All ages *[/TD]
[TD]1994[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]University Place[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]1996[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Vancouver[/TD]
[TD]All ages[/TD]
[TD]March 26, 2008[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
08-28-13, 01:15 PM
#122
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Oooh, Snohomish repealed theirs. Interesting.
08-28-13, 01:48 PM
#123
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No wonder I saw a lot of helmet-less cyclists up there. I lived in Lynnwood until a month ago.
What makes you think the helmet law is stupid? No flame bait. I'm just curious.
What makes you think the helmet law is stupid? No flame bait. I'm just curious.
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08-28-13, 02:03 PM
#124
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Discussion of and passing of laws by any legislature is a waste of time and money.
08-28-13, 03:08 PM
#125
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