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-   -   Newb w/ questions about "relaxed" heirarchy and large frame searches..... (http://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bicycles/927108-newb-w-questions-about-relaxed-heirarchy-large-frame-searches.html)

loimpact 12-22-13 05:01 PM

Newb w/ questions about "relaxed" heirarchy and large frame searches.....
 
Long story short. Hi, I'm a newb. I had an SR 10speed 20+ years ago. I'm a runner on the IR, looking to keep going into old age. (knees are getting tired) I'm thinking hybrid for a 32c tire, rougher local roads and overall versatility.

I was talking w/ a guy at Perf Bike yesterday who was all about Fuji bikes. I heard "more bang for buck" and "more relaxed geometry". (compared to Diamondback & GT)

I know it's about fit but at 6'3" and 190lbs, I need a big frame (XL or 22/23") and hardly any stores have them so my "tests" are usually done on 21" at best. So I get that I should "try them for best fit" but this is easier said than done. (I rode a Fuji 1.4 w/ carbon forks. Nice but only 1 bike)

So my biggest question is twofold.......

#1 .) Assuming I'm more game for a relaxed fit, is Fuji in that category and/or does somebody do "relaxed" better?? (I get the more "upright", more tube angles for less aggressive position but maybe more tilted/spread/upright is not necessarily more relaxed to some?)

#2 .) Any suggestions for my difficult situation of not being able to try multiple 22-23" frames side by side?? (If I were 5'10" & 165lbs, I could test tons of bike & make an easy decision)

Thanks in advance, I've read & learned quite a bit here already! :thumb:

Null66 12-22-13 06:04 PM

Try more bike shops.

You cannot test ride a bike that doesn't fit. Fit is the most important aspect.

You need to be able to test different bikes that fit as each will feel different.

loimpact 12-22-13 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Null66 (Post 16351927)
Try more bike shops.

You cannot test ride a bike that doesn't fit. Fit is the most important aspect.

You need to be able to test different bikes that fit as each will feel different.

Will do. Any suggestions for places that have more large-frame bikes in stock?? REI?? (I haven't checked them yet but there's one close by). I'm in Southern California so I'd think I'd have a plethra of them but if Performance Bike doesn't, that doesn't bode much confidence.

I am also trying a long-time road biker acquaintance but I only got his voicemail Friday. Hopefully he's not out of town til after the holidays cuz I'd like to get the right bike soon.

Thanks for the feedback!

hwycruiser 12-23-13 09:16 AM

I have the same problem when looking. Performance and REI have a guaranteed satisfaction policy. They both should be willing to order into their store whatever you want. If you try it you do not have to buy it. They also should be able to do a search of their other local stores inventories. A large dealer who sells Trek or Specialized should have the inventory you need but will probably have higher prices. As for the geometry, check the specs and ride, don't rely on others opinions.

Italia1970 12-23-13 12:23 PM

i agree

fietsbob 12-23-13 01:48 PM

Id use the telephone , Call & ask them what they have in stock in your frame size..

I of course dont have a clue about bike shop inventories in another state, and city.

relaxed geometry = longer trail (steering) and slacker seat tube angles

Ala, 70 vs 75 degree or somewhere in between .. & long wheelbases..

loimpact 12-23-13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 16353940)
Id use the telephone , Call & ask them what they have in stock in your frame size..

I of course dont have a clue about bike shop inventories in another state, and city.

relaxed geometry = longer trail (steering) and slacker seat tube angles

Ala, 70 vs 75 degree or somewhere in between .. & long wheelbases..

Interestingly enough......I think I found that a less-relaxed feel was better....(unless I'm interpreting incorrectly).

Found a bike shop today that had a few good XL frames.

Mainly Giant and Cannondale.

Giant Sedona ---- Wow, weird bike. Comfortable for cruising, but I dunno if it's the kinda bike I'd like. Has the shock forks (w/ lockout which was kinda' cool) but very upright, almost girl-bike type position. Still, saddle was VERY comfy & position was easy-peasy for cruising.

Giant Roam ----- Interesting, though now that I'm trying to remember it, I can't. I think it was a nice bike, but honestly can't remember. Might have to go back & check it again. (ugh) I know it was in between a comfort (Sedona) and true Hybrid (Escape). Had front shock w/ lockout. (ok, I guess)

Giant Escape ---- More like what I am looking for, but as I'll mention in contrast below, felt very stretched out over the thing. Long frame, seat felt like it was rearward of the cranks more than others and the top tube felt extremely long (thus the "reaching" feeling)

Cannondale Quick 6 ---- More upright position than the Escape....despite....being (or at least looking) like the Escape should be the one more upright judging by the handlebar's stem angle. I tried not to give too much to the saddle or the pedals, but MAN, the Cannondale has much better of both. The Giant's saddle is hard as a rock & pedals are TINY!

Anyway......I'll have to try the Fuji again & compare.

Another store that had Specialized had absolutely zero XL frames in stock. :(

Italia1970 12-23-13 07:00 PM

cool

fietsbob 12-24-13 12:29 AM

Your money your choice..

just thinking outside the 'I got an XXX and it's great' box, like so many of you kids reply.

loimpact 12-24-13 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 16355221)
Your money your choice..

just thinking outside the 'I got an XXX and it's great' box, like so many of you kids reply.

Kid? Man, I wish! My 40+ (cough) years speak to me more & more every year. Oh to be 20 again. Or even 30. ;)

I already told all the bike guys, I don't care what color, reflectors or flowers the thing has on it.....I want a comfortable bike. (One of the reasons I'm scratchin' my head trying to remember the Roam as it kinda' fits the bill on paper but I just can't remember what I thought. I do remember locking the front fork after a couple passes around the lot, though. Maybe meaning the shock don't mean much to me)

After more reading last night, I *THINK* I might know why I felt more stretched out on that Giant Escape.........

GIANT'S XL IS A LARGER FRAME THAN CANNONDALE'S XL!!! :twitchy:

I wish that weren't the case, but it is dimension for dimension. I guess Cannondale's equivalent would be more like their 2XL.

Regardless, I think I can still safely say that the Cannondale XL frame felt better than Giant's XL (larger) frame so that probably helps me. I think that a 21-22" frame suits me better than 22-23".

Also.......after reading last night on archives here, I'm really tempted to find a Trek 7.3 FX. I was quite surprised I hadn't run into this bike before but I don't think I've hit a Trek dealer yet. Sounds like the 7.3 FX is quite the bike/value???

loimpact 12-24-13 04:09 PM

Ok, further research. I rode today.....

Cannondale Quick 4 ------ Nice bike. Remember I rode the 6 yesterday which I already liked. I didn't notice how much that carbon fiber forks & upgraded wheels absorb til I rode the 5 immediately after the 4 today. (All 3 bikes in XL frame). The 4 is definitely a notch above. I can get the thing for $666 & maybe hammer 'em for more (I dunno & don't really care if the bike's worth it)

Trek 7.2 ----- Meh......not exciting to me. I rode this in the 20" frame which is probably a little small, but I'm getting the feeling I like being slightly smaller than slightly larger. I rode the Trek below in a 22.5" frame (their next up size) and again, felt stretched like I did on the Giant's XL frame (23") yesterday. And Trek makes 25" frames. Are you kidding me? For 7 footers?

Trek 8.1 ---- Ditto.....not exciting & obviously pretty basic. I really just rode this because they didn't have a 7.3 or higher in a 22.5" frame. And actually this bike is very similar to FX as this is the only 8.x series that doesn't have a front shock fork.

So, so far, I'd definitely put Cannondale in the lead. The Quick 4 is a cool bike and of course, much more than I wanted to spend, but unless I do a closeout Fuji Absolute 2.1 for $349 (that's *if* they can still produce a '13 in XL) then I can't say I'd be as happy to spend $520 on a Quick 6 if I can do the Quick 4 for $150 more. It's a lot more bike for very little more money, imho.

Any feedback appreciated.....Thanks!

loimpact 12-26-13 05:46 PM

Ok, so I'm back from another day of testing. This time I really wanted to try & find a Specialized dealer with something my size in stock. Found it!

Specialized Sirrus Sport ---- Nice bike! Better suited to me than the Giants, though I also go to ride a Giant in an "L" (21") frame vs the "XL" (23") frame which was definitely more appropriate to the Cannondale 21.3" XL I'd tested. This bike should be on everyone's list, imho because it fits right between the more upright ride of the Cannondale & the more agressive ride of the Giant. In fact, dare I say I liked the Sirrus Sport better than the Elite??? Once you slap on those high pressure 28cm tires and I dunno what else they change, but the bike just didn't feel as good (to me) as the Sport. Sport is a good 2nd contender.

Nevertheless..........the Cannondale Quick 4 (I think) takes the cake! That is (again, to me) the Goldilocks of bikes. I went the 5 miles from the Specialized dealer right over to the Cannondale dealer & hopped back on the QUick 4. (I'd ridden the Quick 6 an hour earlier). It was just a great feel even in just the 6, although, unlike the Specialized, you can feel a bit more refinement in the Quick 4 vs the 6. Again, just the goldilocks of bikes, imho.

And as I mentioned, I tried the Giant Escape again but in an "L" frame this time & it is much more comparable in size to the Cannondale XL frame, however, just too aggressive a stance for me & very rough. Tiny/narrow pedals, narrower/lower handle bars and just overall, not a good feeling to me. Cannondale's got that just right feel going on.

Since I originally asked & now have almost answered my own, I'd like to post a sense of "relaxed" feel as it applies to me (not necessarily textbook).....

Cannondale Quick series ---- most relaxed ride. Comfortable ergo bars. Gel seating. Larger pedals. Most upright geometry. THE Goldilocks bike, imho.

Specialized Sirrus ----- 2nd only to Cannondale, imho. Again, slightly more hunched & the Elite definitely had narrower bars. (or at least narrower feeling). But the standard grips & overall geometry of the bike still felt very good, especially in THEIR XL frame which is actually about 22.5". Kinda' in-between the Cannondale & Giant disparity of sizing.

Fuji Absolute series ----- similar, if not a little more hunched. Good bike & might consider it more closely, minus the few dealers around & their lack of inventory

Trek 7 FX series ----- similar to Fuji & nice, to be sure, but just not inspiring. I expected more & experienced less, imho. I rode 7.2 and 7.4. Maybe 7.5 on up would feel more inspiring but now we're thru the roof on $$$$. (I'll pass)

Giant Escape series ---- Wanted this to be a great bike but just not my cup of tea. If following a more aggressive stance line (whoever else makes those besides the ones I listed above) I'm sure Giant is a great value. They do make a ton of frames so can't knock 'em. They know what they're doing. Just not my bag, especially when compared to Cannondale Quick.

Anywho.....that's my $.02 if anybody ever comes & checks this thread again.

loimpact 12-28-13 11:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Well, it's finished............Already put her on her maiden voyage last night......Cannondale Quick 4 in the black/green 2014. It's just too perfect a bike for me. If this bike weren't around, I'd probably have gone with Specialized Sirrus Sport as that was a great bike too but a little more bike for the $$$ on the Quick 4. I do love this bike. Thanks to any & all who gave me feedback in this thread!!! Really, these decisions are almost like buying a friggin car for cryin outloud!!

Wanderer 12-28-13 11:49 AM

You will never go wrong, buying the one you fell in love with.

Good choice, and excellent shopping ---- ride and enjoy.

Delmarva 12-28-13 02:41 PM

What a great holiday gift to yourself!! Enjoy...

cbr9927 12-28-13 06:20 PM

I used to have a Quick 3 but returned it due to wrong size and than got my Giant Escape. Its much more nimble than my Escape and if youre after the short run with crazy u turns and flicks side to side the Quicks due to its compact size and short wheelbase is the one to get. I almost went and bought it back yesterday but how the heck will I find time for 3 bikes.

expatbrit 12-28-13 06:39 PM

Doh -- should read the whole thread. Congrats on the bike!! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loimpact (Post 16352046)
Will do. Any suggestions for places that have more large-frame bikes in stock?? REI?? (I haven't checked them yet but there's one close by). I'm in Southern California so I'd think I'd have a plethra of them but if Performance Bike doesn't, that doesn't bode much confidence.

I am also trying a long-time road biker acquaintance but I only got his voicemail Friday. Hopefully he's not out of town til after the holidays cuz I'd like to get the right bike soon.

Thanks for the feedback!


loimpact 12-28-13 08:13 PM

Thanks Wanderer & Delmarva! :)

CBR....I know the feeling!! I actually just couldn't get comfortable on the Giant. Though, again, I'd remind anybody that you really need to watch sizes!! Giant's XL is 23" frame. Cannondale's XL is 21.3". That's a HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!! :eek:

Actually if you want to get even weirder.......after comparing my Quick 4 in XL to Trek 7.x FX because somebody talked about its "longer" wheelbase......the Cannon is actually larger, taller, longer all the way around EXCEPT the actual seat tube! WHA????????????

So DEFINITELY always check sizing!! And no matter what they bike store says....GO BY FEEL!!!! Ride the bikes 2 or 3 times if you have to!!! Who'd have thought a Cannondale Quick would have a longer wheelbase than the high & mighty Trek FX series size for size??? (not me. Not on a bet)

And no worries expatbrit....I actually saw your original post in my e-mail & at 6'7" you'd DEFINITELY need to be sized and it does not surprise me a bit that you ended up in a smaller frame than expected. Had I listened to the original Performance Bike salesman I dealt with, I'd have ordered a 23" frame which would have been too big for me. (as I found out in the Giant lineup).

Besides.....after coming off of an 18" Wally World mtn bike, this 21.3" frame feels like HEAVEN to me!! :thumb:

cbr9927 12-28-13 11:41 PM

I eat my words, I went back and rebought the Quick 3 tonight. I now have 2 Hybrids, one for when I want to stretch out and ride hours and hours ( Escape) and the other ( Quick) for the short runs. After many rides on the Escape it just felt more touring than a romp thru the neighborhood bike for me.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ps85bbddce.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ps68a7bcd5.jpg

loimpact 12-29-13 12:11 AM

A couple of beautiful bikes!!! I do love that color combo on the 3. Very nice! :thumb:

I don't want to turn into a junky, but I could see myself getting a 2nd bike some time in the future too. Heck, if I ever won the lottery who knows where it might end....LOL

cbr9927 12-29-13 12:29 AM

I know I get carried away with hobbies sometimes, but on the bright side I bought 3 bikes lately for the price of one really nice road bike. You know those road bikes that are so light you can lift with one finger. FWIW I don't know how people can ride those road bikes, hunched over so much and such skinny tires with no room for error over potholes, garage ramps, broken pavement.

loimpact 12-29-13 10:44 AM

I agree. I was able to easily notice the "hunch" difference on the hybrid bikes and disliked anything too far over. I can't imagine such a significant disparity as how the road bikes are set up but I get it......road folks want that particular setup for a reason. It's just not for me. (at least not at this point in my riding life)

In fact.....when I test rode my bike, I had to hop off the bike & look at it cuz something didn't feel "Quick" familiar. The guy had assembled the bike with the stem flipped upside down. (It's a 12 degree rise so upside down was almost net zero!!) I felt that IMMEDIATELY. I rode back to the store & told the guy....."That stem is not what I remember on the Quick, am I right?".

He said, "Ya, I flipped it for a more agressive stance. You like it?"

I said, "Not in a millenium! Flip that thing right side up! That particular rise is one of the things I loved about the Quick!"

He said, "Oh, sorry man. I figured you'd dig the stance."

Me ------ (facepalm)

Once he flipped it, that familiar Quick stance was back & my back thanked me for the more upright stance! VERY comfortable for my body. Throw on a set of drop bars & get my butt up above my shoulders & who knows where I'd be. The chriropractor maybe...LOL.

loimpact 12-29-13 07:41 PM

Another 10 miles today. (nice) I really love this bike. I rode to the local store (I bought from the same folks but remote store to get the model/size/color combo) and figured it'd be good to see the local guys anyway. only about 3 miles from the house so great location.

I had a concern over derailleur rub but it turned out to be a friggin sticker!!! I'm still learning and the guys told me about not going big/big or small/small on the gears as it'll rub regardless. After we figured out the sticker and then I finished another 7 miles, I gave it a run thru and it appears that 1 & 8 are gears to stay out of. Everything else seems fine, plus I'm either on the 2nd or 3rd cog so I just make that transition after about 2/6 to the 3rd cog. (2/7 rubs juuuuust a hair which I might have them adjust out later but don't wanna compromise low side either)

Then 3/6 is a pretty tall gear to push and with 2 more to go in case I get up over 40mph.....(pffft).

Love this bike!!

loimpact 01-04-14 08:18 PM

So, I'm what...... a week and a half into my new bike and it's totaled!!

I was hit by a vehicle. (I'm ok)

Since I bought the bike w/ Amex, they have a great purchase protection plan that may cover the bike. (I used it once before on a laptop and it worked like a charm).

In the meantime, I'll be picking up another tomorrow. I'd almost pick another color combo but I just love that exact bike too much.

cbr9927 01-05-14 01:50 AM

Hang in there impact, the quicks bikes are about as fun as a hybrid can be.:)


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