My Clipless Experience (spoiler: back to flats for me)
07-22-14, 06:26 PM
#51
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I've never seen a Click'r pedal offline, and it's pretty hard to tell from internet images of the Click'r pedals. It looks to me like the pedal platform is pretty flat, and level or very close to being level with the center of the pedal. Compare this with the M324, where the platform side has "teeth" that are raised while the center portion slopes downward a bit. Mountain-style cycling shoes have the cleat recessed pretty well, but the M324 provides enough of a gap that even if your shoe exposes more of the cleat, or if your foot strikes the pedal at an angle where the cleat would strike first, it's unlikely that the cleat would hit the pedal. That saves wear-and-tear on your cleat, and might be safer (no risk of your foot skidding even slightly across the pedal).
Long story short, the Click'r pedals might work for you, but a lot will depend on your shoes. The M324s (or a variant made by another company that looks very similar, "campus pedals" is the product name I believe) are your safest bet when paired with mountain-style shoes that look to have good traction on the bottom.
As to power/efficiency, I saw an interesting chart examining muscle recruitment during the various parts of the pedaling cycle. One chart was produced by someone surmising which muscles are used, and how clipless could improve upon that; another chart looked at measurements made using the electrical activity of the muscles to find out when they were actually being used. Long story short, clipless didn't provide any benefit. It's true that you can pedal on the upstrokes while being clipped in - a sensation that I found to be somewhat empowering when racing up an incline - but it's questionable how beneficial that really is.
Long story short, the Click'r pedals might work for you, but a lot will depend on your shoes. The M324s (or a variant made by another company that looks very similar, "campus pedals" is the product name I believe) are your safest bet when paired with mountain-style shoes that look to have good traction on the bottom.
As to power/efficiency, I saw an interesting chart examining muscle recruitment during the various parts of the pedaling cycle. One chart was produced by someone surmising which muscles are used, and how clipless could improve upon that; another chart looked at measurements made using the electrical activity of the muscles to find out when they were actually being used. Long story short, clipless didn't provide any benefit. It's true that you can pedal on the upstrokes while being clipped in - a sensation that I found to be somewhat empowering when racing up an incline - but it's questionable how beneficial that really is.
07-22-14, 06:39 PM
#52
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You are reviewing products you have never even seen in person and finding "charts" proving that the fact that you gave up on clipless after one day was the right call. In the world of interwebz forums this looks a lot like trolling. The primary benefit to all retention systems is that it keeps your foot on the pedal with no expenditure of energy. This is useful on long rides, bursts of explosive power, techy sections off road etc. They are not a cure all, and they are probably not needed by all riders. I don't have em on my around town bike. But proselytizing ignorance doesn't make you sound like a voice worth listening to.
Regarding giving up clipless being the right call, that was decided when I realized that it was taking the fun out of cycling. I still felt a bit down about the idea that I was giving up on some performance, but as I mentioned, there's apparently quite a bit out there to suggest that the supposed performance benefits are overblown. Even if that weren't true, leaving clipless behind would still have been the right call for me.
If you don't think I'm a voice worth listening to, feel free not to read my posts. To call it "trolling" is a bit strange to me, but I guess some people are sensitive about those things; from where I stand, your post seems a lot like trolling (negative baiting under the guise of being an innocent, standard post). My intent in writing this thread was purely for the people who were in a situation that I was; who were curious about clipless, partly because they felt that it was the only direction to go. On the other hand, I'm not sure what the purpose of your reply was, but I'll treat it as a genuine comment for now.
07-22-14, 06:56 PM
#53
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Had you given clipless a fair shot I might agree with you and say that they are not for everyone.. But you gave up after one ride and that is a bit odd to me..
I don't think many will or should get anything from your experience because you don't really have any experience to share so to speak.. One ride and give up is hardly information that others should follow..
My .02
I don't think many will or should get anything from your experience because you don't really have any experience to share so to speak.. One ride and give up is hardly information that others should follow..
My .02
07-22-14, 07:36 PM
#54
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in the bike shop said could happen. tipping over at a complete stop is a lot less painful. plus i like the extra power climbing hills.
07-22-14, 07:52 PM
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Had you given clipless a fair shot I might agree with you and say that they are not for everyone.. But you gave up after one ride and that is a bit odd to me..
I don't think many will or should get anything from your experience because you don't really have any experience to share so to speak.. One ride and give up is hardly information that others should follow..
My .02
I don't think many will or should get anything from your experience because you don't really have any experience to share so to speak.. One ride and give up is hardly information that others should follow..
My .02
I say (and have said before): do what makes you happy. If it's clipless, great. If it isn't clipless, that's fine, too; but I felt compelled to write about it because it's a rare opinion that you don't have to advance to clipless. The cycling community as a whole seems to expect that everyone will advance to clipless at some point. Since you're already riding clipless it's possible that you're not aware of it, but it's a sensation that I felt, that others are also claiming to have felt, and that is reflected in the marketing and availability of pedals.
07-22-14, 07:57 PM
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BF is loaded with people who will try and cram their opinion down your throat and it's rather irritating to read when people do that..
Bottom line is it's your bike and you should pimp it, rock it, and ride how you see fit..
07-22-14, 08:08 PM
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I also understand and appreciate where you were coming from in suggesting that I give it another shot, instead of throwing in the towel after only one go. As I said before, maybe some day... just not now, with this bike and the type of riding I'm doing. But even if I don't go that route, while it may look strange to have a road bike with BMX-style pedals, I'll be riding happily either way.
07-22-14, 08:14 PM
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I didn't mean that you were trying to cram an opinion down others throats it was more of a statement that people should rock their bike however they want regardless of what others may say.
07-22-14, 08:22 PM
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Not getting into any debates on this because I really do not know anything about this topic. I am fairly new to biking and all I know us at this point I do not want to have my feet secured to my pedals. That being said, I am told that I should not ride in ordinary sneakers because their soft soles don't transfer the full energy from my legs to the pedals. Can anyone recommend a really good quality bike shoe that does not attach to the pedals and that is also very comfortable to walk in.
07-22-14, 08:47 PM
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In case I wasn't clear earlier; I have the M324 pedal and absolutely flippin LOVE them. Over 900 miles so far and love clipping in for the commute and wearing sandals for a ride to the park with my toddler.
people should definitely try chewing gum and riding bike simultaneously before attempting clipless.
people should definitely try chewing gum and riding bike simultaneously before attempting clipless.
07-22-14, 09:48 PM
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The dual sided clipless/flat pedals might work well for if you ride your bike on city streets and stop a lot or do errands. Out on county roads, the clipless side would be more useful.
And from what I've read about using clipless pedals, it's not about pulling up when you ride, it's pedaling at the bottom of the stroke, as if you were scraping mud off the bottom of your shoes.
YMMV
07-23-14, 05:19 AM
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I think it's worth repeating... Try toe clips.
Strapless toe clips: Newer toe clip systems don't use straps at all and are very easy to get in and out of. They also don't drag on the ground when you use the platform side. They do not hold your foot in place quite as well, but a big improvement over no clips at all. These are even less expensive (under $10). Well worth using and a very good option to consider. And, they are much more accommodating to a variety of shoe styles
Here are the advantages of regular toe clips (with straps):
1. Less expensive. A set of toe clips can be purchased for under $20 and easily attaches to most pedals. Also, you don't have to buy clipless shoes which cost around $100.
2. Easy to get in and out of (maybe I should say "easier").
3. Keeps your foot in place and provides the kind of attachment that promotes good smooth cadence pedaling. Allows you to change the "attack" angles of your foot which lets you use different muscles which is a good thing on longer rides.
4. Allows you to wear "normal" shoes (see caveat about this further on).
Disadvantages:
1. Takes some getting used to compared to no clips at all.
2. Not all "everyday" shoes work well. They used to make shoes specially designed for toe clips. (I have a pair.) Compared to a regular sneaker or tennis shoe, they have a slightly stiffer and smoother sole, a slightly more pointed toe, and leather top over the toes. You can find shoes that work well with toe clips if you look for the features mentioned above. You can probably buy them for under $20 at a department store or a Payless. And these shoes let you walk around easily.
3. Clips will likely hit the ground when you ride on the platform side of the pedal so you pretty much have to use the clips.
Strapless toe clips: Newer toe clip systems don't use straps at all and are very easy to get in and out of. They also don't drag on the ground when you use the platform side. They do not hold your foot in place quite as well, but a big improvement over no clips at all. These are even less expensive (under $10). Well worth using and a very good option to consider. And, they are much more accommodating to a variety of shoe styles
Here are the advantages of regular toe clips (with straps):
1. Less expensive. A set of toe clips can be purchased for under $20 and easily attaches to most pedals. Also, you don't have to buy clipless shoes which cost around $100.
2. Easy to get in and out of (maybe I should say "easier").
3. Keeps your foot in place and provides the kind of attachment that promotes good smooth cadence pedaling. Allows you to change the "attack" angles of your foot which lets you use different muscles which is a good thing on longer rides.
4. Allows you to wear "normal" shoes (see caveat about this further on).
Disadvantages:
1. Takes some getting used to compared to no clips at all.
2. Not all "everyday" shoes work well. They used to make shoes specially designed for toe clips. (I have a pair.) Compared to a regular sneaker or tennis shoe, they have a slightly stiffer and smoother sole, a slightly more pointed toe, and leather top over the toes. You can find shoes that work well with toe clips if you look for the features mentioned above. You can probably buy them for under $20 at a department store or a Payless. And these shoes let you walk around easily.
3. Clips will likely hit the ground when you ride on the platform side of the pedal so you pretty much have to use the clips.
Last edited by practical; 07-23-14 at 05:31 AM. Reason: added informaiton clarity
07-23-14, 08:58 AM
#64
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I'm ignorant/agnostic regarding clipless pedals. I'm going to just speak to the your feet could slip off if you don't go clipless reason.
I had that happen once, back in the early '80s. Old school "10 speed" with rat-trap pedals with smooth and non-grippy "teeth" and smooth bottom Jack Purcell tennis shoes. Foot slipped forward while barreling down a hill. Toe hit the ground and the heel of my foot was still on the pedal. Tore up some ligaments and had a very sore and swollen foot for a couple of weeks. Worth avoiding doing that again!
Next bike was an early mountain bike with "bear trap" pedals. More aggressive teeth and surface area. Road year round then, so hiking boots in the winter. Rode logging trails and gravel. Never lost my grip. Even standing.
Skip forward a couple of decades. When I returned to riding regularly a few years back I went with studded platforms. So far, never had a foot slip. The kind with metal allen key studs are very grippy. I can't imagine a foot slipping off one of those. Anyone have personal experience with an allen key style multiple metal stud pedal and a foot slipping off accidentally?
For now I ride platforms because short, crowded urban rides and I have a wide, hard to fit foot.
I had that happen once, back in the early '80s. Old school "10 speed" with rat-trap pedals with smooth and non-grippy "teeth" and smooth bottom Jack Purcell tennis shoes. Foot slipped forward while barreling down a hill. Toe hit the ground and the heel of my foot was still on the pedal. Tore up some ligaments and had a very sore and swollen foot for a couple of weeks. Worth avoiding doing that again!
Next bike was an early mountain bike with "bear trap" pedals. More aggressive teeth and surface area. Road year round then, so hiking boots in the winter. Rode logging trails and gravel. Never lost my grip. Even standing.
Skip forward a couple of decades. When I returned to riding regularly a few years back I went with studded platforms. So far, never had a foot slip. The kind with metal allen key studs are very grippy. I can't imagine a foot slipping off one of those. Anyone have personal experience with an allen key style multiple metal stud pedal and a foot slipping off accidentally?
For now I ride platforms because short, crowded urban rides and I have a wide, hard to fit foot.
07-23-14, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for the your views on the Click'r pedals. I'm really on the fence about taking this step so this has been a great thread for me. As I said, i've been clipless before, never really liked it and had my share of falls but this was mostly mtn biking. Now road riding, do a lot of climbing but to get to those climbs, ride multi-use trails where sudden stops do happen. I've reached a fitness point where my climbing times are really good, especially for my weight class and age, (such a good fitness incentive) as I look for those extra seconds and more stamina, still wondering if I should give clipless another go... decisions, decisions, decisions... I think I'll just have to give it a try and again and make that determination myself.
Thanks all...
Thanks all...
07-23-14, 06:33 PM
#66
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[QUOTE=jaycb74;16966764]Thanks for the your views on the Click'r pedals.
Do the click'r pedals require specific types of shoes? I saw a limited selection on Shimano's site. Probably less mainstream than standard SPD shoes, which are made by multiple manufacturers.
I still prefer the M324 pedals. They look great on the bike and with the tension set loose they are easy to get out of.
Do the click'r pedals require specific types of shoes? I saw a limited selection on Shimano's site. Probably less mainstream than standard SPD shoes, which are made by multiple manufacturers.
I still prefer the M324 pedals. They look great on the bike and with the tension set loose they are easy to get out of.
07-23-14, 06:35 PM
#67
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I have used the Diamondback flats with metal pegs. Did not have an issues. For $20 they are nice pedals!
07-23-14, 10:21 PM
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I'm about 50/50 whether or not I broke my big toe on a coffee table just getting ready for work this morning. You all are getting me nervous about my spiky al pedals (like posted earlier) + my achilles. I don't want clips or clipless, now the safety-guy in me is thinking I need some low height hiking boots for anything but perfect paved stuff.
07-24-14, 09:32 AM
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I'm about 50/50 whether or not I broke my big toe on a coffee table just getting ready for work this morning. You all are getting me nervous about my spiky al pedals (like posted earlier) + my achilles. I don't want clips or clipless, now the safety-guy in me is thinking I need some low height hiking boots for anything but perfect paved stuff.
..... Until you need it
07-24-14, 10:08 AM
#70
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
When I am touring I carry barefoot shoes and like to be able to ride in these to air out the toes and because thay are actually quite nice to ride in.
Picked up some Wellgo M19 pedals the other day and have also been pleased with these which are a cheaper alternative to the M324... up here in Caniuckistan the M324 retails for close to $100.00 while the M19 can be picked up for $40.00 and comes with an in house guarantee.
07-24-14, 11:41 AM
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I just installed M530's on my Trek FX and it is the best upgrade I could have ever done to this bike. Mind you this is my first experience with clipless pedals, and now, I can never imagine going back to flats. Even just cruising, let alone fitness training, it is so much more efficient, and safe, imo. Have not fallen yet, and to be honest, I can't see how you would, as long as you remain vigilant. SPD's are so easy to clip in and out.
So in retrospect, I wish I had gone with M520's or other double sided pedal.
So in retrospect, I wish I had gone with M520's or other double sided pedal.
07-24-14, 01:10 PM
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It's as if the entire cycling world has designed performance pedals around clip-in clipless pedals, and you're either using them or you're using those black plastic starter pedals. Not that there's anything wrong with those black plastic pedals, of course. If they hold your shoe in place and move the crank arms as you expect then they're getting the job done. But I still feel that drive to upgrade beyond stock and starter components, and so I find myself looking up other pedal options instead of putting the black plastic pedals back on my bicycle...
07-25-14, 10:30 AM
#73
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Another in the Must-Be-Clipped-In camp.
It took me a few rides to get my setup dialed in. (You can adjust your foot position based on how your cleat is installed) I had the dual sided for a long time, then realized I NEVER used the platform side. It was more of a pain for me starting from a stop to be sure the platform side was down. I took them off and went standard SPD.
The one thing I have not seen mentioned, and for me it is the deal breaker against platforms, is that being clipped in gives you consistent foot positioning. I have my cleats adjusted to the perfect position. I take off from a stop, get clipped in, and my feet are set just the way I like them. I didn't realize how big an advantage this was until I recently bought a mid 80's MTB that came from the flipper with 'pedal shaped objects' attached so I knew I had to buy decent pedals for it. Since it's very lightly used I just bought a cheap'ish pair of platforms for it. I HATE THEM. I can't seem to get my feet in the proper position consistently. It seems like I'm constantly looking for the 'sweet-spot'. I guess from some of the earlier posts, this is an advantage for some folks—it gives them the ability to move their foot around on the pedal. For me it's pure frustration. I want my foot to be in the same position relative to the pedal every time.
It took me a few rides to get my setup dialed in. (You can adjust your foot position based on how your cleat is installed) I had the dual sided for a long time, then realized I NEVER used the platform side. It was more of a pain for me starting from a stop to be sure the platform side was down. I took them off and went standard SPD.
The one thing I have not seen mentioned, and for me it is the deal breaker against platforms, is that being clipped in gives you consistent foot positioning. I have my cleats adjusted to the perfect position. I take off from a stop, get clipped in, and my feet are set just the way I like them. I didn't realize how big an advantage this was until I recently bought a mid 80's MTB that came from the flipper with 'pedal shaped objects' attached so I knew I had to buy decent pedals for it. Since it's very lightly used I just bought a cheap'ish pair of platforms for it. I HATE THEM. I can't seem to get my feet in the proper position consistently. It seems like I'm constantly looking for the 'sweet-spot'. I guess from some of the earlier posts, this is an advantage for some folks—it gives them the ability to move their foot around on the pedal. For me it's pure frustration. I want my foot to be in the same position relative to the pedal every time.
07-25-14, 12:00 PM
#74
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I have the T400 on my main bike and I love them I also bought the Click'r C170 shoes but you can buy any SPD shoe. I forgot which came with which, but I also got the multi release SPD cleats and I have yet to "clip stack". The tension is low enough and the multi-release cleats are designed in a way that that even if you panic stop you can still yank from the top which I have done a couple of times with no issues.
To the person asking about using the Click'r pedals without shoes, that was the main reason I went with them, and while it can work, and the cleat is a little recessed, it can be a bit slippery because the cleat is smooth metal. Comfort wise, I only own "barefoot" style minimalist shoes, and riding those on the Click'r pedals isn't the most comfortable thing, though I imagine that they'd be fine in regular shoes.
I haven't had any issues with "float" or foot position, though that may have to do with the low spring tension and the multi-release cleats.
---
I don't know if I could say that clipless has made me any more efficient, but I certainly like being attached to the bike and not having to think where my feet are. You are able to spin a lot better because you don't have to expend a bunch of effort keeping your feet with the pedal on the upstroke. I also like that I have yet to slip off the pedal and slam my shin into it at a stop light which is a great bonus
07-25-14, 06:18 PM
#75
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[QUOTE=egranlund;16973862]No, the Click'r pedals are just regular SPD pedals with a much lower spring tension (their lowest setting is something like 40 or 60% lower than the lowest setting on regular SPD pedals) and a slightly different pedal design.
I have the T400 on my main bike and I love them I also bought the Click'r C170 shoes but you can buy any SPD shoe. I forgot which came with which, but I also got the multi release SPD cleats and I have yet to "clip stack". The tension is low enough and the multi-release cleats are designed in a way that that even if you panic stop you can still yank from the top which I have done a couple of times with no issues.
Thank you for clarifying. If the using the PD-M324 peds get stressful...i will check out the T400's. Stressful because falling in the wrong place stays in the back of my mind!
I have the T400 on my main bike and I love them I also bought the Click'r C170 shoes but you can buy any SPD shoe. I forgot which came with which, but I also got the multi release SPD cleats and I have yet to "clip stack". The tension is low enough and the multi-release cleats are designed in a way that that even if you panic stop you can still yank from the top which I have done a couple of times with no issues.
Thank you for clarifying. If the using the PD-M324 peds get stressful...i will check out the T400's. Stressful because falling in the wrong place stays in the back of my mind!