CycleTastic

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker with my first-ever post! This is going to be a long one

I've been riding recreationally with my old Raleigh Discovery MTB (I think it's from 1998)*for about three years when I got into the idea of cycling for recreation, fitness, and of course, fun. I mainly rode on the road, so the stock knobby tires were killing my acceleration and all that. I ended up getting a pair of Kenda Kwest (26x1.5") semi-slick tires which helped a lot with improving acceleration, but still retained an aggressive sidewall for the multitude of loose gravel on the road.

Three years later (and after much research), I decided it was time to upgrade. The Discovery was never meant to be for me (it was for my mom), but it was pretty good overall for my purpose, despite the lower-end Tourney/SIS components and 18 speeds. However, I noticed that my right knee was quite sore after a ride, and considering that my foot could stay flat on the ground while stopped, it was definitely too small for me. But I really enjoyed my time with it, and I might still use it as a light commuter for short distance (>5km). My last 'new' bike intended solely for me was a Techteam Ringer back when I was 13 from Toys'r'Us with some Falcon indexing system, which was my pride and joy for quite a while. However, I knew I had a lot of knowledge to acquire while searching.

Anyway, after a lot of research and testing, I decided to go with the Giant Escape 1. My budget was $500, but because it was a 2014 model, it was $599 instead of $659. The LBS was also super friendly and threw in some accessories like a kickstand and water bottle holder for free (and installation), 10% off accessories for a month, first tune up free, etc . I tried out the Trek 7.3 FX at a different chain type of LBS, which was a blast to ride, but was very rattly, in the sense that I could feel even the tiniest bump I went over on the test ride. That, combined with the somewhat pushy (but friendly) associate and higher price led me to the Giant. I was going to go with the Escape 2, but because I had tried the 7.3 FX (I was originally going for the 7.2 FX, but that changed since the chain LBS didn't have it in stock), I tried out the Escape 1 instead. Personally, I found that the carbon fork made a huge difference compared to the 7.3 FX's aluminium fork. The front and rear derailleurs were the same (Acera/Alivio), but it was obvious to me that the Giant was the better deal, both in price and ride quality. The Giant LBS is further than the Trek chain LBS, but it's only about 15 minutes more.

Now, what I find interesting is that the Trek I tried out had a 16" frame, which fit well, but the Giant has a medium, 19" frame, which also seems to fit well. The LBS made sure the saddle and pedals were fitting correctly, which they were, but I still found it interesting that there was such a huge discrepancy. I'm only about 5'6" so I was surprised the Giant fit me. The LBS actually said that the 17" would probably be too small for me. Is there really that big of a difference in the sizes of Trek and Giant's bikes? The Escape 1 is not uncomfortable for me while riding (other than the saddle, which I might be able to break into around 100km), but I just found that perplexing. The LBS did do their best to fit me though, so I don't think they sold it to me because it was one of the only Escape 1's on the floor.

Unfortunately I've only got to ride it twice so far due to some never-ending rain and business with school, but recording with Strava, I've noticed that in only one ride, I already had an increase of 4 km/h in average pace, which I was quite happy with. I also managed to hit 30.2 km/h on flat ground despite an exhausting weekend, whereas the Raleigh, with its Cromoly 4130 frame, could usually only reach that speed while going downhill or exerting quite a lot more effort. At first I was disappointed with the marginal speed increase,*but then I realised that this bike is meant for versatility, and I'm sure I'll get better and better once I ride more and it decides to stop raining (I'm a fairweather cyclist). It will also be a good bet as a commuter bike, if I ever get into that sort of thing. I'm hopeful that the bike will also last for quite a while, which will make it worth the high initial cost. On my ride yesterday though, I noticed that the brakes were somewhat squeaky on the Giant with medium/high pressure applied… is this something the LBS should check out? It concerned me a bit since it’s a brand new bike.

Now, with all that out of the way, I have some questions.

I'm a student, so my funds are somewhat limited, but I did earn enough working part time in the summer to get some more accessories. I have a bell, front and rear LED light and side mirror from the Raleigh, which I plan on mounting on to the Giant, but I had a few questions with regard to accessories.

• I’d like to get a saddle bag, preferably one with a strap to hold a rear LED, and enough space to hold a small tire repair kit/multitool - and maybe enough space to also hold a 4.7” smartphone. I don’t have much space on the seat post since it’s fairly low (might have to remove the rear reflector), but if there’s anything like this that comes to mind, do let me know
• I went for a 19km ride yesterday and was quite satisfied with the stock grips, but was wondering if I should get bar ends at this point if I go on further rides (which I definitely will be)? If so, would you recommend any specific ones?
• Do you think it’s worth getting a bike computer? I use Strava right now but obviously it’s not going to be 100% accurate, but I wanted to know if it would be worth getting a wireless one (more tidy look). Again, if so, any recommendations? Preferably something that could be bought in-person as shipping to Canada seems to be quite expensive.

I think that’s all my questions for now… thanks for reading! Great to be a part of this wonderful community.

CycleTastic

I have an update so thought I'd share!

I ended up getting some simple axiom bar ends with thumb rests which have been very comfortable so far. They were fairly cheap too, at $15 for the pair. There's only enough space for my bell and front light now since everything (brakes, shifters, etc.) have moved in now, but I think that's perfectly fine. The mirror I had on my other bike was useful, but nothing can beat a shoulder check.

I got an axiom saddle bag (can't remember the model name) that has enough space for both the tire levers and patch kit that I got, and a strap at the back for my red rear LED light (and it's reflective!). I didn't end up getting the bike computer as the wireless one was $90 and I wasn't quite ready to spend that much since I ride for recreation and use Strava, which seems to work pretty well so far. I might end up getting one later, but it's definitely not a priority. All in all, another great experience at the LBS, and I'm definitely more comfortable to go for longer rides now!

I shall post some pictures soon, hopefully when it ever stops raining

Wanderer

You can get a cateye strada w cadence, wired, for much less than that on amaxon. Battery lasts forever, and works great. I think the model is rd200? About 35 bucks. Get a mountain myrricle bar end mirror if you have access to the open end of the bar. Mho

DeadGrandpa

I used to be an over the shoulder checker. Mirrors are way better, and it is a safety issue.

Vexxer

If you get a saddlebag with a strap for your LED light, you will not need the reflector anymore.

I highly recommend bar ends for no other reason then to give yourself some where to move your hands around on longer rides. No recommendation on a brand, I use these Nashbar Mountain Bike Bar Ends

I do recommend a computer, as it will be more accurate then your cell phone, especially if you ride out in the sticks where the GPS signal may go in and out.. Im also bad about turning on my cell phone app, so I often only have my computer to fall back on. Wired ones are normally inexpensive, and not difficult to set up.

ColonelSanders

I have taken your advice on the wired Cateye Strada w Cadence and am just waiting for it to arrive.

I also took myriad people's advice on the mountain myrricle bar end mirror and I have to say it has been a great purchase.

It is amazing how much more enjoyable riding in traffic is with this mirror and adds tremendously to a stress free riding experience.

CycleTastic

Hey everyone,


Apologies for bumping the thread so late but I need some advice and didn’t think it would be right to create a new thread.


Anyway, 300km (or 186mi) later, I’m really not feeling this bike. It’s unfortunate because I’ve spent a fair amount on accessories for commuting, but I don’t think I can go commuting on it based on how uncomfortable it is. I really like the bike for what it is (composite fork, 27 speeds, rack/fender mounts, etc.) though. At least the accessories aren’t limited to one bike…


Quite simply, the bike is too big for me. There were some warning signs I should’ve noticed when I bought the bike, but I think I placed a bit too much trust in the LBS. Now don’t get me wrong, the LBS was extremely helpful (especially since it was a very busy day), and I don’t want to tear into them, but I think I/they should’ve recognized that although my feet were in the right position, this was with the seat post all the way down, almost no standover clearance, and excessive reach to the handlebars.


I was told that I’ll get accustomed to the new fit (this was the first ‘real’ bike I’ve bought, so I wasn’t totally sure what a good size would be, so seeing Giant’s bike sizing guide for the Escape here confirms my suspicions about the bike being too big - I’m 5’4 with a 30in inseam), but it hasn’t happened. Every time I get on the bike, there’s too much pressure on the wrong places on the saddle (even with bike shorts with which I thought might minimize the issue a bit), my back is strained because of the long reach to the handlebars, I keep on sliding to the middle of the saddle despite constantly shuffling to the back of it, and it gets uncomfortable in under 2-3km.


My chain has started slipping and I have not yet used the first free tune up, so I was thinking of asking them what they can do when I go in. I don’t know if this was a case of trying to clear inventory (it was one of the only remaining 2014 Escape 1’s with a 19" (M) frame, no 17” (S) frames at the time which would've fit me better - I didn't know this at the time), but I’m not sure. The staff is very nice so I don’t think this was done with malicious intent. However, I acknowledge that I’m also partly to blame. The issue is that my right knee got quite painful after a long ride on the bike, and because of that, I couldn’t ride much which is why I’ve only done 300km in essentially 10 months. Then there was school, work, graduation, etc.


I also noticed that when I rented a comfort bike a month ago - a Raleigh Detour - I felt that I was able to go significantly faster on flats compared to the Escape, which is very confusing since the Escape is a lot more ‘flat-bar road bike’ than the Detour. Could this also be due to bad frame fit? I usually only cruise at 22-24 kmh (13-15 mph) on the Escape (not avg speed), whereas I was definitely going faster on flat on the Detour to the point that I ran out of gears.


Sorry for the long post but I’m just not sure what to do. I know the frame size is too big and I’m unsure if any adjustments could really fix it. I also know it’s probably too late to return the bike, but should I (politely) ask for an exchange of some sort, accepting the monetary loss that it might include? I really love cycling but it’s hard to go on a ride when it’s so uncomfortable. I certainly don’t want to exacerbate any pain in my right knee either, which I think was a combination of me not stretching enough before that particular 30km ride and bad bike fit.


If I can’t find any resolution, I’m willing to sell the bike on Craigslist, but I thought it would be important to first talk to the LBS and see what they can do, and see what you guys think the best course of action would be. Thanks for taking the time to read!

ShortLegCyclist

I think the first thing you should do is go on a test riding spree in your area, find out if other bikes really do feel better. If it's just a matter of the Detour's geometry being more comfortable for you, there are aftermarket adjustments you can make with stem, handlebars and seatpost to make the Giant ride more upright. Sometimes just changing to a more ergonomic handlebar makes all the difference and can compensate nicely for a reach issue.

The standover height problem is harder but one thing you might try is wearing thicker soled shoes. Stiffer/thicker soles supposedly improve pedaling efficiency anyway.

If none of that helps, and the shop you got the Escape at has a trade-in/upgrade policy, definitely look into that. Otherwise you would probably be better off looking to sell it yourself.

DorkDisk

I wouldnt sink any more money into that bike. Get one that fits from a shop that understands sizing, 5-4 on a 19" compact frame with the seatpost slammed is so very wrong.

You can also try running northroad bars for shorter reach - inverted for sporty, upright for upright. Narrower tires will lower standover. Move the seat forward a bit, or try lowering it a bit and sitting back a bit more.

badger1

Absolutely right!

OP, if you are still here, nothing you can do will make that bike (19" Escape) fit you properly -- nothing. It is grotesquely oversized for someone your (claimed) height.

From Giant's UK site:



You are nowhere close to a Medium (19) Escape. Cut your losses. Go back to the dealer, and try for some kind of part-exchange or credit toward a new, properly-sized bike. If they go for it, fine; if they don't sell the bike on to someone else and get something from another, better shop that fits you.

Little Darwin

I don't care for Northroad bars because of the wrist angle when riding them, but a bar with some sweep, along with a shorter stem could be helpful.

Here is one handlebar I used to build a bike for a friend:

https://www.amazon.com/Kalloy-Al-030-.../dp/B00TJAKN2M

There may be other options that don't go forward from the stem before sweeping back, and would move the grips even closer to you.

Along with a shorter stem, you could bring the grips back toward you an inch or two.

This obviously wouldn't help stand over height or other fit issues, but it could keep you from stretching forward so much.

CycleTastic

Thank you so much for the very helpful replies everyone!

All of what you've said is great advice. I'm planning on going to the LBS tomorrow to explain my side of the story - we'll see what happens. I'll be sure to refer them to that Giant UK sizing image, as I shouldn't have even been on a 19" frame to begin with. If there isn't much of a resolution, I'll try out some of the above mentioned adjustments (e.g. moving saddle further forward, etc.). If none of that helps, then it'll unfortunately be time to take a loss and sell it online.

Will keep you updated on what happens. Thanks again

NormanF

At 5'6" you should have been fitted to a medium or 17" frame. I'm 5'7" and my requirements are the same for ideal bike fit.

That said, if you get stuck with a larger size bike, you can still make do by installing a taller stem, shortening the seat tube reach with a seatpost that lets you slide the saddle forward.

In the end though it will be too big and will never feel right so a moral of your bike buying experience is to consult the bike company's sizing chart to be sure a bike size fits for your recommended height range and if you shown to be between sizes, go for the smaller of the two.

Bike sizing is a good deal easier than in the old days but one has to be an informed bike consumer. Don't let pushy salesmen sell you a bike that doesn't fit. Good luck and I hope regardless of what happens to the bike you bought, that this screwup doesn't discourage you from riding in the future.

CycleTastic

Thank you for the kind words! I'm really engrossed in cycling (and I've invested fairly heavily in it), so I think I'll be on the saddle for quite some time. Appreciate the support nonetheless

UPDATE: So I went to the LBS today, not really sure what to expect. I think I was as calm as possible, though a bit nervous seeing I bought it almost a year ago. A knee injury from December and a far distance to the store were reasons for the delay, but I know I should have went back earlier.

Anyway, I was pretty happy with the overall outcome. I kindly explained to them that I probably shouldn't have been on a frame of this size, but that I loved the bike, their service (the other bike shop in this city only acknowledges you when you're at the till from my experience, so this store is much better) was stellar, and so forth.

I was lucky to be able to talk to the owner first, so obviously if anyone could do anything, it would be him. I think I laid out the facts too quickly so it didn't really seem like he was going to do anything other than expect me to buy a brand new bike, but we talked for a bit. I talked about my challenges mounting/dismounting, the lack of any standover clearance, knee pain, etc.

Once I talked for a bit, he got me to try out a 2016 17" Escape 2 (the only small Escape they had in-store), to see if it fit any better (with the saddle height properly adjusted, and not slammed). Immediately when I mounted it, I could feel that it was a much better fit. My feet were tilted but not flat on the ground, it was far easier to pedal at a decent clip, and overall it was a lot more comfortable (except the saddle, but none of the Escapes I've been on have ever had a comfortable saddle).

Once I got back to the store, he offered $500 for the (2014) bike, which was a great deal to me. I'd never get anything close to that on Craigslist if I were to keep it, even in a bike-hot city like Vancouver. Considering I bought it on sale for $599 last September, it was a pretty good deal. In exchange, I would get a 2016 Escape 1 for $220 (essentially the difference, MSRP is higher now due to the weak Canadian dollar), so about a $100 loss. This time it's a small, so it's just a matter of adjusting the seatpost and then it's all good hopefully! I thought I might have to start from scratch but I appreciate that the LBS took their time to acknowledge that they made an error, and did something to correct it. That will keep me coming back, despite the distance from my house.

It should be in by the end of the week. Overall it went pretty well - I'm glad the LBS was fairly understanding, and I think it turned out as well as it could. I wasn't sure what to expect due to the time that had lapsed, but it all worked out well. They're also going to swap out all the accessories from the old bike to the new one at no charge. The only 'downgrade' was the front derailleur (from Acera to Altus), but it's really not a huge deal. In exchange, I get front rack mounts, internal cable routing, and a much better fit!

Will post some pics once it arrives later this week! I can't wait.

NormanF

Congratulations!

Your new bike will fit you well and the bike shop gave you a good deal!

We look forward to seeing pics of your bike when it arrives later this week.

ColonelSanders

That is a truly outstanding outcome, I am shocked they did the right thing by you to that extent.

Well done.

limbot

Nice outcome

Kudos to you and the bike shop for handling it well and coming to a resolution you're both happy with.

$100 isn't a big outlay to get the right solution, especially since you've managed still managed to ride it and put 300+ kms on it and learnt a whole lot for next time (which might have not been as successful or cheap)

CycleTastic

Hey everyone!

Finally got time to pick the bike up, so very exciting!

Here's a pic... sorry for the bad quality, just came back from a ride so it's a bit dark and my phone camera isn't so great...




Anyway, I can't believe the difference in ride quality. The bike shorts actually made a difference in comfort, the same amount of pedal strokes equals more speed (better efficiency), and I feel like I could stay on the saddle for hours. I think I have to move the seatpost a tad bit lower but it's not bad at the moment. Standover height etc. is not even comparable to the old Escape because it's just so much better.

The frame colour is quite different from what the picture on the Giant US site looks like - it's more of a dark grey than black. I quite prefer it over the old one though.

The Altus shifters seem to be fine. The gear display isn't quite as 'refined' as the Acera ones are, but that's purely aesthetics so it doesn't matter much to me. As long as it shifts, that's all that matters!

The only issue I had is that the rear fender keeps on catching on to the rear tire when I go over large bumps. I'm not sure what's causing this as the wheels are the same size as the old bike, so maybe I just need to reposition it a bit...

Other than that, I love the bike. There are some small 'upgrades' like 85 psi tires (vs. 65 on the older ones, it's definitely noticeable), chain seems to be a bit better quality, the pedals are a bit easier to grip on to (for a flat anyway), and the grips are slightly more comfortable. It's a bit rattly compared to the old one due to the internal cable routing (I assume), but that's not a huge deal.

Lastly, here's a list of gear I've got on the bike in case anyone's curious:
- Axiom RainRunner 360 Reflex front and rear fenders
- Axiom Journey rear rack
- Axiom bar ends
- Axiom saddle bag
- Axiom water bottle holder
- Avenir mini frame pump
- Bontrager Trip 2 computer
- Cygolite Dash 320 front light and Cygolite Hotshot 2W rear light
- Miscealleonus kickstand/backup Raleigh front and rear blinkies
- Mountain Mirrcyle mirror (to be installed)

Once again, thanks to all of you for all your help with everything! I'm sure this will be the beginning of many more enjoyable rides to come

Sonmi451

Photo isn't working for me. Congrats on the bike. THat's cool the bike shop did right.

Aqua_Andy

Congrats on the outcome. It's nice to hear when a local business does the right thing. Most just don't realize that situations like this are the best advertising money can buy.