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Juniors Racing (All Disciplines) Entry level and/or 23 and younger here's where yo can mix and learn.

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Old 02-28-13, 09:44 AM   #26
island rider
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Sorry, apparently I have not had my sense of humor pill today.
I apologize to the 33 for responding like I am in the 41. Won't happen again
No worries. Feel free to unleash your sarcasm on the next thread I start.
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Old 02-28-13, 10:01 AM   #27
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No worries. Feel free to unleash your sarcasm on the next thread I start.
Oh don't worry, you're on my radar...
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Old 02-28-13, 10:16 AM   #28
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Oh don't worry, you're on my radar...
Somehow I think I have been in the past as well.
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Old 02-28-13, 10:23 AM   #29
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Well I became a Cat 1 with nothing but downtube shifters.
That's because you can actually sprint instead of just thinking you can. You can't train that other than to make it sharper and do what you need to be there at the end of the race. Any moron with a sprint can advance quickly. And you're not just any moron.

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Read the Friel book. There is a chapter on figuring out your strengths and weaknesses. The book covers how to address them and how to build a training plan.
A new racer trying to decide what type of rider he is is like looking at a pile of metal ingots and deciding what kind of car it will end up as. When I started out I was sure I would never be any good at crits.

With a junior this is like looking at a mine and trying to decide the same thing.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:16 AM   #30
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I'm not a pro, but the only thing I use is my phone for strava.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:39 AM   #31
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That's because you can actually sprint instead of just thinking you can. You can't train that other than to make it sharper and do what you need to be there at the end of the race. Any moron with a sprint can advance quickly. And you're not just any moron.



A new racer trying to decide what type of rider he is is like looking at a pile of metal ingots and deciding what kind of car it will end up as. When I started out I was sure I would never be any good at crits.

With a junior this is like looking at a mine and trying to decide the same thing.
You never cease to amaze me... Luv ya...
FYI I did get a point once in a road race and have won a TT or 2
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Old 02-28-13, 12:54 PM   #32
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A new racer trying to decide what type of rider he is is like looking at a pile of metal ingots and deciding what kind of car it will end up as..
You're right and that's a good point, but it was not what I was talking about.

Friel's process for figuring out your strengths and weaknesses isn't the same as making the rider decide what type of racer he is. A weakness may be bike handling or long climbs or pack positioning or endurance.

A training plan has to have goals. Otherwise you don't know what you're planning for. "get better" isn't a useful goal. Friel's method is to identify the rider's weaknesses and adjust the training plan accordingly. Friel uses objectives as things you need to be able to do to reach your goals. A goal may be a podium in the Tour of Nowheresville and an objective to reach that may be an FTP of 4 w/kg.

Even a beginning racer should be able to (using Friel's method) recognize some areas they need to work on more than others, from doing group rides. Someone who hasn't been doing group rides should probably start there rather than jumping into racing (see the stickies at the top of the page).
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Old 02-28-13, 06:42 PM   #33
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Alright thanks. I appreciate the Eddy B schedule, CarpeDiem. BTW I like watching your races. And yeah I've got a few Cat1/2's in my age division where I live too so I'm going to be racing the fives.

So here's what I'm going to do based on the posts:
Read the Friel book, follow advice. (BTW I have Time Crunched Cyclist by Chris Carmichael...any good?)
Race in the 5's &then 4's. Should I upgrade ASAP? Teammates have been saying that the 4's race easier.....Makes no sense..
Not buy a power meter.
Observe my relative strengths on group rides like CarpeDiem said.

Thanks for the advice guys!
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Old 02-28-13, 11:31 PM   #34
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You're right and that's a good point, but it was not what I was talking about.

Friel's process for figuring out your strengths and weaknesses isn't the same as making the rider decide what type of racer he is. A weakness may be bike handling or long climbs or pack positioning or endurance.

A training plan has to have goals. Otherwise you don't know what you're planning for. "get better" isn't a useful goal. Friel's method is to identify the rider's weaknesses and adjust the training plan accordingly. Friel uses objectives as things you need to be able to do to reach your goals. A goal may be a podium in the Tour of Nowheresville and an objective to reach that may be an FTP of 4 w/kg.

Even a beginning racer should be able to (using Friel's method) recognize some areas they need to work on more than others, from doing group rides. Someone who hasn't been doing group rides should probably start there rather than jumping into racing (see the stickies at the top of the page).
Been a while since I read Friel's book, so you'll pardon me for my misunderstanding. Got it.

So my two cents:

For a new rider, based on both my own experience and experience coaching is that you should go race everything you can, and train as an all-arounder at least for a few seasons. I see a lot of "morphing" over time, all the way through he pro ranks where "sprinters" turn into great classic riders (Hushvod) or (gasp) into great escape artists like Jalabert.

And while I'm a huge Friel fan his book focuses on a periodized approach which can actually slow development in a novice. And I know he wouldn't disagree with me. I've been seeing some really terrific response in a cyclic rotating approach where, rather than prepping for an "A" race you stack shorter complimentary training blocks on top of each other. The "goal/objective", rather than some race, is to see across the board improvements.

I think in some cases this is a better psychological and physiological strategy; wanting a podium at some race might be motivating, but when that doesn't happen the motivation turns to demotivation, especially with new riders who have yet to realize that most people never win a race. Or when a crash or illness wipes out a big block of hard work.

Until folks are actually knocking on the "W" door, some (though certainly not all) are poorly served by throwing a lot of eggs in one basket.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:34 PM   #35
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You never cease to amaze me... Luv ya...
FYI I did get a point once in a road race and have won a TT or 2
Even a blind bird finds a worm once in a while ;P
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Old 02-28-13, 11:43 PM   #36
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Been a while since I read Friel's book, so you'll pardon me for my misunderstanding. Got it.

So my two cents:

For a new rider, based on both my own experience and experience coaching is that you should go race everything you can, and train as an all-arounder at least for a few seasons. I see a lot of "morphing" over time, all the way through he pro ranks where "sprinters" turn into great classic riders (Hushvod) or (gasp) into great escape artists like Jalabert.

And while I'm a huge Friel fan his book focuses on a periodized approach which can actually slow development in a novice. And I know he wouldn't disagree with me. I've been seeing some really terrific response in a cyclic rotating approach where, rather than prepping for an "A" race you stack shorter complimentary training blocks on top of each other. The "goal/objective", rather than some race, is to see across the board improvements.

I think in some cases this is a better psychological and physiological strategy; wanting a podium at some race might be motivating, but when that doesn't happen the motivation turns to demotivation, especially with new riders who have yet to realize that most people never win a race. Or when a crash or illness wipes out a big block of hard work.

Until folks are actually knocking on the "W" door, some (though certainly not all) are poorly served by throwing a lot of eggs in one basket.
While i agree with the sentiment in general, RX, are you really that naive?
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Old 02-28-13, 11:55 PM   #37
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priceless.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:56 PM   #38
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I just had some really good fish & chips, followed by a few pbr's.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:59 PM   #39
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While i agree with the sentiment in general, RX, are you really that naive?
No, but it's naive to think he took up the needle in 1995.
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Old 03-01-13, 06:26 AM   #40
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I've been seeing some really terrific response in a cyclic rotating approach where, rather than prepping for an "A" race you stack shorter complimentary training blocks on top of each other. The "goal/objective", rather than some race, is to see across the board improvements.



Until folks are actually knocking on the "W" door, some (though certainly not all) are poorly served by throwing a lot of eggs in one basket.
Can you describe this a little more? Thank you.
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Old 03-01-13, 07:08 AM   #41
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popcorn.
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Old 03-01-13, 07:17 AM   #42
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OP, also, remember to use Junior Gears.

A junior joined our team this year, and none of us thought to mention to him that he needed junior gearing or even explain what it was - he is racing on a bike given to him by one of the guys on the team.

He got DQ'd in his first race. Actually, the top three juniors (of which he was third and probably three laps down on the first two) got DQ'd.
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Old 03-01-13, 07:45 AM   #43
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Can you describe this a little more? Thank you.
are you trying to be a smartass about compliment vs complement

or are you looking for one of these?

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Old 03-01-13, 09:15 AM   #44
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Can you describe this a little more? Thank you.
I can give you his perspective on this from the other side of the counter. I don't train for an A race by identifying particular needs for that race and focusing 100% on those weaknesses. For example, let's say my next A race is a 60 mile road race. I'm not usually in the front group of climbers, so one school of thought would be to focus heavily on climbing in order to make the selection in the race, and let the chips fall where they may. Instead, the focus is across a broad range of capabilities, giving more emphasis on things that can help climbing, but maybe also recovery as well. You can't overlook rest, too. Rest is critical on many levels.
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Old 03-01-13, 09:17 AM   #45
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I can give you his perspective on this from the other side of the counter. I don't train for an A race by identifying particular needs for that race and focusing 100% on those weaknesses. For example, let's say my next A race is a 60 mile road race. I'm not usually in the front group of climbers, so one school of thought would be to focus heavily on climbing in order to make the selection in the race, and let the chips fall where they may. Instead, the focus is across a broad range of capabilities, giving more emphasis on things that can help climbing, but maybe also recovery as well. You can't overlook rest, too. Rest is critical on many levels.
If given the choice between rest and going to train when I feel unmotivated, I choose rest.
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Old 03-01-13, 10:58 AM   #46
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Can you describe this a little more? Thank you.
3/4 week blocks, focusing on different macro needs. Think full on periodized "A" race program, shrink it, add in some other work. Repeat. For someone who's not close to potentialized it's yielded very good results.
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Old 03-01-13, 11:08 AM   #47
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If given the choice between rest and going to train when I feel unmotivated, I choose rest.
That's why you are fat and I'm not.
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Old 03-01-13, 11:25 AM   #48
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That's why you are fat and I'm not.
I'm lazy...
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Old 03-01-13, 02:49 PM   #49
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And proud of it.
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Old 03-01-13, 03:47 PM   #50
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did someone say lazy, fat, and slow? I feel some burning in my ears!
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