Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Rider
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    My Bikes
    Trek 1.1 Compact
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Question Gear restrictions (and wheelsets)

    Hi, I'm 16, going to be racing Crits and Road Races next year (in a month or so) and I was just wandering around the USAC website when i saw something on junior gear restrictions. They call it "junior rollout" (link here: http://www.usacycling.org/encyclingp...ry.php?id=4203 ) and i had to buy a new cassette a couple days ago. I have an entry-level 8-speed bike so it was only about $40 (not that big a hit). Now, the hardest gear is a 50x13. I measured it and it is about an inch or so over 26 feet, is this alright? Or do i have to block off the gear so i have a 7-speed and the hardest gear is a 50x14?

    As a second question, since i have a spare cassette now, i was thinking of putting the race-legal cassette on a new wheelset (Got enough money for christmas to do so). Would this be smart to have a race wheel set with high-end tires and the such and a training wheelset with the stock rims and tires, or just race and train on the same wheels? Thanks for any input on the subject.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    England, Great Britain
    My Bikes
    Tarmac/LangsterPro/Epic
    Posts
    259
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Red face

    I can't really weigh in on how strictly USAC keep their rulings - I race under British Cycling and they're pretty lenient (I spent a season on the track racing with one less tooth on the rear cog than I was 'allowed', whilst everyone else was happy running their gearing to the restriction).

    I wouldn't go out and buy a dedicated (presumably expensive?) race wheel if this is you're first venture into racing a bike. Unless you're having issues with your wheelset which you have now, I'd leave it a season or so (probably even less if you enjoy it) until you're sure this is what you want to do. I did, however, 'upgrade' my stock DT Swiss wheels before my third race, mostly because I didn't like them. But my excuse was that they flexed so damn much and the wheels were going super cheap on eBay for what they were. It probably made no difference whatsoever in my performance, but I liked them.

    Nothing wrong in buying something that you want, regardless of if it is necessary. I personally can't justify it due to a low income, but some guys like riding S5's/Dogmas/Venges just because that's what they like.

    I'd do what will make you happy. Sorry I can't say much about the ruling, but I doubt it's strict unless it is nationals or something..
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Port Chester, NY
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Use this calculator http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_meters_of_development . Youll have to block off the 13t and use the 14t. I had the same problem (52x13t) so now i have to use 52x15. Its no big problem really just that youll have to adjust to the higher cadence once you start running out of gears (especially when it gets faster).

    Also don't block out the gear until you actually start racing. Train in the biggest gear you've got until like a few days before the race or something.

    I have a 7 speed bike, but since i block out a gear I'm left with a 6 speed so i don't think you'll have any trouble blocking out that gear.


    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by chocho13; 12-29-13 at 11:04 AM.
    "I dont feel pain, i ride it."-Cho Cho

  4. #4
    Rider
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    My Bikes
    Trek 1.1 Compact
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the info guys, I already got a new wheelset, cassette and all, and i will remember to block off the 13T if i have to. Do you guys know if you have to adjust your rear derailleur if you have 2 different cassette ranges (13-26 & 11-25). I'm fine with the 11 being blocked off, or can you guys just tell me real quick how to change the range of the derailleur (either a youtube video or just talk it out). Sorry for the trouble guys, but it helps out alot.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    England, Great Britain
    My Bikes
    Tarmac/LangsterPro/Epic
    Posts
    259
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need to turn your high-range adjuster screw on your derailleur clock wise (tighten).
    1. Put your bike in the gear you want to be your biggest.
    2. Turn the high-range adjuster screw clockwise until it goes tight.
    3. From here, tighten the screw in little increments (in half turns, roughly)
    4. Every half turn (of the screw), try to shift into the smaller cog. If it shifts, your screw isn't tight enough. If nothing happens, it's perfect. If the bike is trying to jump to the next biggest cog, it's too tight.

    Edit: This link is pretty comprehensive with images. On the bottom of the first page it's clearly shown, with pictures and all. (As to where each screw is).
    http://www.teamswift.org/userfiles/f...DJUSTMENTS.pdf
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  6. #6
    Rider
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    My Bikes
    Trek 1.1 Compact
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks alot, very good instructions! I'll do this if the officials give me any grief over my 1 inch, a nifty tool in my bag of tricks. I'm not afraid of riding 7 gears, so this will work very well. Once again, thanks.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Port Chester, NY
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Also when you go to races try to do roll out as soon as the race finishes, its better to be safe than being disqualified for not showing up "on time". Good luck with your racing season!
    "I dont feel pain, i ride it."-Cho Cho

  8. #8
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tariffville, CT
    My Bikes
    Tsunami Bikes
    Posts
    12,426
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A couple things:

    - Gear rollouts are concrete. Pleading ignorance is not an excuse. You either pass or you don't. I've seen riders disqualified for going an inch over rollout - they cheated and tried to use taller/wider tires to get an advantage. The thing was that the rider won his event (state TT) by something like 5 minutes over 20 km. He didn't need to use the super wide tire but he did and as a result lost a TT title.
    - I watched the National Crit championships one year. The Junior that won the oldest Junior age group used a 53x12. I don't know what made him think he could get away with it. He was disqualified immediately. He was on the national team, he was on the Worlds team, yet he still used a gear that was waaaay too big (gear limit at the time was a 53x15 with a normal 700c 21-22mm tire). The guy who got second got the title and he rolled his tire in the sprint and still got a close second, sprinting with his tire flopping next to the rim.
    - Gear restrictions in the US currently extend to any race the Junior enters, including non-Junior races. If you're a Cat 5, do the Cat 5 race (open to all eligible competitors), and win, you still have to pass rollout. If you don't you'll be disqualified. In the race series I promote one Junior would purposely put a "Senior" wheel on his bike for the P123 race. Each week he'd be duly disqualified for using a 52x12 or 52x11. Even after 4 or 5 weeks he was complaining that he shouldn't be disqualified, but he showed up knowing the rules and yet somehow he thought they didn't apply to him. I believe he'd have placed at least once in the money but due to the DQ he got nothing, not even a finish.
    - You can always check your gear before the race - that's the safest. Go to where the officials are rolling out bikes and have them check yours. Or, if they're busy, roll out your bike yourself. This way you can start the race knowing you're using a legal bike.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  9. #9
    Senior Member gaucho777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    My Bikes
    '72 Cilo Pacer • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe (753) • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90ish Parkpre Team MTB
    Posts
    3,882
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm surprised pre-race rollouts aren't the norm. I haven't raced since I was a junior in the early 90s. Back in the day, the first thing you did after registration was go to the rollout area. I would not want to go through a race with any doubt that I might not qualify due to a post-race rollout. Once you passed the inspection & rollout, they would put on a sticker, usually on one of the spokes of the rear wheel and the brake cable. I did feel bad for the occasional racer who flatted during the race and was DQ'd because they finished on a support wheel with illegal gearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    Gear restrictions in the US currently extend to any race the Junior enters, including non-Junior races...
    Do you know if this is a recent rule? I used to race Cat 3 as a teenager, and don't recall having to use my "junior" wheels for the senior races (but my memory can be foggy at times).

  10. #10
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tariffville, CT
    My Bikes
    Tsunami Bikes
    Posts
    12,426
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
    I'm surprised pre-race rollouts aren't the norm. I haven't raced since I was a junior in the early 90s. Back in the day, the first thing you did after registration was go to the rollout area. I would not want to go through a race with any doubt that I might not qualify due to a post-race rollout. Once you passed the inspection & rollout, they would put on a sticker, usually on one of the spokes of the rear wheel and the brake cable. I did feel bad for the occasional racer who flatted during the race and was DQ'd because they finished on a support wheel with illegal gearing.

    Do you know if this is a recent rule? I used to race Cat 3 as a teenager, and don't recall having to use my "junior" wheels for the senior races (but my memory can be foggy at times).
    It's weird that they don't check before a race. Many parents/racers don't know the rules so often in the spring we see Juniors show up with obviously illegal gearing (and just as obviously ignorant parents/racers).

    The current rule is that Juniors have to race with Junior gearing all the time. I'm pretty sure that when I was a Junior the limits only applied in Junior races, but I don't remember. I actually have my first rulebook somewhere in my bike room but I don't feel like looking for or through it.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  11. #11
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Bicycle Transportation: 2013 Ford Focus Electric, 2010 Toyota Prius
    Posts
    4,958
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    People treat rulebooks like owner's manuals.

    Since neither of my kids took to bike racing, I only see what happens with Junior racers peripherally. I agree that the rider should get a gear rollout BEFORE the race, even if the rules require the rollout after the race. I've heard the fallout of failed gear rollouts too many times and I feel sorry for the young racer.

    Also, it's not that hard to make some marks (blue tape, chalk, etc) on you driveway so that you can check you race setup yourself the day before the race -- especially is you don't train with the gear restriction or if you use different wheels, tires, or cassettes for your race.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
    See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
    See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
    Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
    Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/

  12. #12
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tariffville, CT
    My Bikes
    Tsunami Bikes
    Posts
    12,426
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A thought - keep in mind that in most sports any equipment limits are checked after the competition. This goes for things like car racing, where cars go through a check after they win. Cycling is very unusual in that you go through checks before, at least in international competition (UCI), but rarely after - Junior roll out is the only consistent post-competition check I know of in USAC.

    For example the UCI, as far as I know, generally doesn't weigh bikes at the end of races, only at the beginning. Therefore all the various weight tricks (drill a hole in the BB shell, fill the seat tube with water, freeze, and the bike will be much lighter after an hour or two in the sun) actually worked. Then one day the announcers of the Tour said that the UCI would be checking the bikes of the top 6 or 7 placers of that day's mountain stage. They acted shocked, like "how dare they?!". In fact if anyone was cheating by switching out bikes during the stage then such a post-event check would make perfect sense. In auto racing everyone knows the cars get checked after the race so it's tougher to cheat.

    Also keep in mind that UCI rules generally don't apply at USAC races, except for UCI races and Nationals I think. You can race a 10 pound bike as a Cat 3 (and I've seen them and even taken one for a short spin in the parking lot before a race) but the pros can't race one, at least not right now. If UCI rules applied then my bike would be illegal due to some of the ergonomic set up stuff I've done to it.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Pleasantville, NY
    My Bikes
    2012 Redline DS1 & 2014 Giant Defy 2
    Posts
    183
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a 10 speed giant defy 2 and the hardest is 50x12. Should I just block out the bottom 3 gears? Or should I get a new cassette. (Currently I have plenty of money saved up for a different one). Thanks to any replies.

  14. #14
    Rider
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    My Bikes
    Trek 1.1 Compact
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    YoungBeginner,
    I recently got a 10 speed upgrade on my bike and i have to say, a new cassette is the way to go. $80-$100 online, but you could probably get a better deal or discount at your LBS (Local Bike Shop). 10 speed is better than 7 speed any day, and a full cassette is definitely preferred. Get a 14-25t cassette. 50x14 is within rollout, so all your gears will be legal. Also, if you want to maximize your rollout distance, get a 52t chainring to have a 52x14 bottom gear. This will bring you to maximum legal junior distance (if you are riding standard tires). Hope this helps, and good luck w/ races.
    Last edited by roadboy97; 01-31-14 at 07:32 AM.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tariffville, CT
    My Bikes
    Tsunami Bikes
    Posts
    12,426
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One other thought. A local rider (he lives in town) won the National Junior (I think 15-16) Crit and 'cross titles a couple years ago. Last year at crit Nationals he flatted. Unfortunately he runs an unusual gear (44x12?) and the neutral support wheel had a 14T cassette. He was two gears lower than his competitors after he got a replacement wheel and struggled in the race.

    The expectation at larger events is that Juniors will be running a 14T cassette. Neutral service, like SRAM, will have some 14T equipped wheels on hand, along with the 11-xx or 12-xx cassette wheels for Senior racers. If you do a RR with a wheels-in/wheels-out wheel van then you'll want to be set up for a 14T cassette. In those RR you don't get your wheel necessarily - it's usually just the first wheel the neutral wheel van driver grabs. If you have a non-standard set up you risk compromising your set up if you have a flat or break a rear wheel.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  16. #16
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Pompertuzat, France
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In France the juniors do a roll-out BEFORE they can submit their completed registration card for the event, it has to be signed by one of the officials to prevent many of the unfortunate stories listed above.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milwaukee area
    My Bikes
    mine: specialized roubaix, gary fisher piranha. wifes: trek madone 4.5 wsd, trek mtb; sons: trek madone 5 series, trek xo2 cx, specialized p series, crupi bmx, sidehack, 71 sting ray; daughter: felt f24 , specialized hot rock
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They are strict with rollouts, if you go over you can be dqed or relegated to last. I think rollouts are right after race so some parents can not swap wheels right before race. It us best to train and race with same gearing. If you train on a harder gear tgan you race it will be harder on you to be consistent. My son has race wheels with nice tire set up and training set with identical cassette and more durable tires.

  18. #18
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
    My Bikes
    2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
    Posts
    3,579
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    FWIW, my junior uses a 52x14 on a 23 tire (Michelin Pro3Race) and has no problem passing rollout.

    We went with a 14-25 cassette because it was cheaper than buying a new crank to go with an 11T cassette. Worked out nicely (without me thinking about it before-hand) that if he's at a neutral supported race & they give him a 14T wheel, he's all set.

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Doge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    My Bikes
    1979 Raleigh Team 753
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My kid can pass with a 25mm tire on 52X14. I think anything you would race with will pass on a 52X14 (in the USA).

    He could pass on a 19mm 53X14, but not on a 20mm 53X14.

    Another combo we will maybe try If I win that eBay bid for a used 56T for $20 is a 56TX15T

  20. #20
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Scalarville
    Posts
    1,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sheesh. Another reason to go with ABR.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •