desconhecido 

For me to average 15-18 mph I'd have to pedal between 25 and 30 mph and I just can't do that. I pedal between 15 and 18 mph and average 10 - 11 mph.

desconhecido 

Not to mention that 12,000 miles on a bicycle is not cheap. That's three to four sets of tires, isn't it? How long will a typical modern bicycle last at 12k miles per year?

desconhecido 

Who says it's cheaper to operate a car at $.56/mile than to ride a bike? I don't know how much it would cost per mile to ride a bike as opposed to driving a car, but it's not free. Calculate how much you'll spend just on tires, tubes, and Rema patches if you ride 10k to 15k per year. Then figure that if you're a four person household, you've got four bikes and you can't double, triple, or quadruple up. Replacing a car that you use for 10k miles won't require 40k bike miles, but it will be more than 10k miles. Besides, with a car, I only need to go to the store about once per week. Not so with a bike.

My point is not that bicycles don't save money as compared to cars. My point is that it's not a savings of $.56/ car mile eliminated.

desconhecido 

Yeah, but when I'm driving, I can surf the internet on my Ipad -- can't do that on a bike, as far as I know.

cooker

Why not? I read Encyclopedia Britannica cover to cover while I bike commuted.

desconhecido 

$2000 per year at $2.50/gallon and 30 mpg. That's 24,000 miles eliminated by riding 10 hours per week? If you ride 10 hours per week at 15 mph your' not even getting 8,000 miles per year on the bike but you're driving 24,000 miles less?

Ok, lets say $3.00 per gallon (I paid $1.75 today) and 15 mpg. That's 10,000 miles eliminated. If you ride 520 hours per year, that's more than 19 mph. That's smoking fast.

Unless you're saying that a mile on a bike saves more than a mile in a car. If that's the claim, I don't understand how it works.

I am not saying that riding a bike isn't good for you and I'm not saying that riding a bike as a car replacement doesn't save you some money. What I am saying is that I don't understand the math that gets you from 520 hours/year on the bike to saving $3500 to $4000 per year in transportation expenses.

"Sure, but the point is riding a bike is still considerably less expensive than driving"

Ok, how much less expensive is "considerably?" How many car miles at $ .56/per mile (or whatever you think it should be) do you eliminate by riding your bike 8,000 miles per year at 19 mph and how much does it cost you to ride your bike 8,000 miles per year and how does that affect the cost per mile or your driving? The last question is because if you drive 48,000 before you buy a bike and it's $ 56/per mile, when you eliminate 24,000 miles by riding your bike 8,000 miles, how much does the remaining 24,000 car miles cost per distance unit?

cooker

Getting back to the blogger, who really really sucks at math as well as economics, the easiest saving to calculate is in gas cost, which they correctly calculated at about $74/month or $887/year. Any additional costs like savings on tires or general car wear and tear are hard to calculate, and I don't know if they got reductions in car insurance and other fees, but all together it's not going to add up to anywhere near 56 cents per mile not driven, which, by the way, they wrongly calculated by multiplying 0.56 by miles driven (375 X 0.56 = 210) instead of by miles not driven.

Assuming they still use the car for stuff that's too far or heavy to do by bike, it doesn't really matter how far they bike or what their estimated per mile bike cost is. All that is useful for economic analysis is the actual bike capital and maintenance costs

Their cargo bike might have cost $4000. It's hard to justify that as an economic benefit based on gas savings - at that rate it would take 5 years to pay it off, so it's only justifiable based on whatever other value it delivers.

Their time is hard to cost. It might have taken them a bit longer to do some stuff by bike than if they used the car, unless they live in a traffic congested area where the bike can sometimes be faster. However even if the bike is slower, that extra time spent on the bike is an investment in their fitness, so it might have been spent in exercising anyway, plus they may be saving on gym fees, and it might be less stressful than driving. In fact it might be downright enjoyable. It may pay off in improved health and reduced medical bills down the line.

My guess is they are probably coming out well ahead based on a holistic analysis of finance and quality of life, but it is just a guess. They just don't give enough information for a proper analysis.

desconhecido 

The last time I read a book while riding a bicycle I was ten and coming home from the library. I ran into the back of a parked car while riding no hands. Fortunately, I was on a 24" Schwinn and the car's owner didn't sue me for the damage I caused even at a low speed. I still ride no hands from time to time, but not while reading a book.

desconhecido 

50 miles per week is 2,600 miles per year. For it to come out, it would have to cost less than $.115/mile to ride a bike. I know it costs me more than 11.5 cents per mile to ride a bike.

Again, I'm not saying you can't save money by riding a bike. What I am saying is that you are calculating the bike's cost at zero and bicycles, and their maintenance, are not free.

Walter S

What is the meaning of that question?

The value of time is emense. Time is one of the few essential resources that money won't buy. Sorry but you've got around a hundred years even if you're in the top couple percent in your lifetime.

In recognition of how valuable time is, I don't want to waste it! The time I waste can never be recovered. For me personally I'm wasting time when I drive a car. Pure waste. I'm sitting there in the stereotypical metal cage (there's a reason for the stereotype of course). It's like a mental void. I'm just listening to music and waiting for that old slow fart to get out of my way. I'm living for the destination. The time spent traveling is a waste. I'm insulated from the world.

But it's worse than that. I'm not just wasting my time by using it up on the front-end with relatively empty experiences, I'm also using it up on the back-end by shortening my life as my legs melt into a jello-like substance on the car seat.

On my bicycle I'm making the most of my time. There might be at least one experience that's a better use of my time, but I need to get around and shop and go to work, etc. Doing that on my bicycle is a rich experience for me. I feel much more in contact and engaged in the world. Every day is both different enough to keep me feeling alive with new experiences, and also familiar enough for me to draw on known solutions for most of the challenges. For example if it's 25F outside, I draw on my experience and know how to stay comfortable at that temperature. Then when I'm out there I feel energized. The world passes by more slowly than in the car. I like that. I can wave hello to a lonely soul on the street and meet their gaze before vanishing in the dust.

Instead of thinking of time purely in terms of its passage, think about how much quality time you can have in your life. The potential is equal to your lifetime at least in theory. Considered in those terms, the time that elapses while driving subtracts time both from my immediate future, and also from my potential lifetime. Bicycling rather, not only maximizes the quality of my immediate future, it extends my potential lifetime. So the car is a double-wammy subtraction from my lifetime, while the bicycle is a double-wammy addition to it.

tandempower

Giving up driving completely typically involves an interim period of living car light because people are used to having a car at their disposal so they don't typically sell the car the day they start bike commuting.

Also, switching from shopping by car to shopping by bike has an effect somewhat comparable to those weight-loss surgeries where your stomach volume is reduced so you feel more full with smaller meals. I find that I shop much more efficiently now than I used to. I used to take a large bike trailer maybe once a month to do grocery shopping. Now I just stop by a couple times a week and carry what fits in the basket and I might end up carrying a couple hand-held bags on the handlebars.

Things like rice and pasta store well and are light because they're dehydrated. Dried beans are also not that big a hassle to soak and cook once you get the hang of it. These are not only the most easily transportable but also some of the most affordable grocery foods. If they are lighter to carry and last longer dry and without refrigeration, that translates into lower supply-side costs as well as making them good bike-carry groceries. Efficiency is efficiency. It produces savings at all levels from the business side to the saving of effort carrying them home. The only thing that costs more effort is preparation but, like I said, once you get the hang of it it's a breeze.

Why did you put this in small font? It is these collective cost of driving that get ignored because individuals focus on their direct household costs and assume someone else pays all these other costs, like rich taxpayers (who pass the costs on to consumers to maintain business revenues and investment income).

Comparing bikes with cars on a per mile basis is a logical trap. Obviously cars are more efficient per mile travelled. The problem is that once you're driving everywhere, the number of miles travelled per unit meaningful accomplishment goes up. Once you are living car free, the total number of miles you travel falls well below what many people drive but you find that you've put together a lifestyle where your needs are met and you're happy, all with less miles travelled.

And, especially if you can fix your own bike (and get the necessary parts, which can be difficult if you can't secure good parts suppliers), then your costs go way down. I spent about four hours the last two days rebuilding a bottom bracket twice because it broke again after I fixed it the first time. That was a nightmare in terms of bike repairs but I still got way less stressed and wasted less money than when I have dealt with similar nightmares while trying to fix a car.

Plus, typically if you have only one car, which I assume most people do, you can't drive it to go get the parts you need to fix it AND if you're riding a bike to go get the parts, they are sometimes to heavy and clumsy to carry effectively by bike, though I have done that in the past. A bike is like the lightsaber of vehicles, in the elegance and simplicity of maintaining it yourself mechanically as well as the riding of it. https://youtu.be/0aRtupiY9Dw

cooker

I as assuming you were joking about surfing on an IPAD while driving. Tell me you were joking.

desconhecido 

I can't speak for what everyone experiences, but I can say that your experience is not mine. Having a car available does not cause me to make extraneous trips or to waste driving miles. I rarely circle blocks looking for parking (maybe once per month at the most -- that's maybe 50 miles per year). When I go out for something it's much more likely to be six or eight sheets of plywood or ten sacks of concrete mix than it is to be five or six pounds of groceries. Even if you were correct with your assertions, it's not fair to attribute the savings to bicycle riding as opposed to just exercising good discipline. You don't need a bicycle to eliminate trips to the store for single cans of beer or a pack of gum or a bag of pinto beans. You can realize all those savings just by being a frugal driver.

I'm not saying you can't save money by riding a bike and I'm not saying that those costs can't be significant. I am saying that I don't believe that the average person will eliminate more than one car mile per bicycle mile (my guess is that the savings is less than one car mile per bike mile) and that "we all" don't experience what you claim that "we all experience." If you present actual evidence to the contrary, I might be convinced that I am wrong. If it's good evidence, I probably will be.

desconhecido 

Are you asking me to ruin a perfectly good joke?

desconhecido 

You are probably in a very small percentage of American bicyclists. That's a compliment, by the way, not snark. I can't do that. I spend at least a minute every mile I ride waiting on traffic. If I could average 20 mph between stop signs and traffic lights, and I can't, I'd still end up averaging only 15 mph. Yesterday I spent nearly eight minutes waiting for a train to pass. The only way I can get my average speed up significantly is to go over to Memorial park and ride the 1.2 mile loop for about an hour. Anymore, the only bikes I ride are lugged steel so I expend a lot of energy getting up to speed in between the lights, stop signs, railroad crossings, and driving dopes. But that's ok. Ergs are ergs, so they say.

desconhecido 

Maybe. I always thought that real expensive oil would have a significant affect. And it did, for about a week. Then everybody (well, not everybody -- I'm not speaking for "We all") adjusted. No, we don't treat energy costs as cavalierly as we did when gas was $ 25 and we had gas wars, but Americans, as a group, still like to waste it.

desconhecido 

Lending money to people with good credit is profitable. Borrowing money, even when you have good credit, is not. Advising people to "get ahead" of borrowing for stuff that depreciates in value, things like cars and refrigerators, clothes, shoes, beer, is to give good advice. Business borrowing is a whole different story, unless you're a Schwinn.

desconhecido 

Oh, yeah, there is money to be saved. I live in Houston and until I retired for the second time a couple months ago, I had to occasionally go to downtown for work. I'd take the bus for $2.50 rt rather than pay the parking fees. I could have ridden a bike, but I'd have to circle the block a couple times with about 25# of equipment looking for a place to lock it up and then I'd be stinky, maybe stinkier, and who want that?

Walter S

I was disciplined for 25 years in this and other ways. It takes mental fortitude to live your life in ways that don't come naturally. I did that with varying degrees of success over the years, sometimes disappointing myself by falling short of my ideals. Maybe that was just being too idealistic. But it was being me.

Then I went car free. No more discipline! I'm a free man. I stay fit as an athlete by just living my life. The discipline to go to work and to shop and such is easy for me. The rest is just a side effect of living. Not much discipline involved.

Edit: Easiest of all is avoiding unnecessary driving

Artkansas 

I bike commuted while I was working on making the World Book Multimedia Encyclopedia.

I-Like-To-Bike

I bought a second car in 2009 to commute to my new job site 75 miles from my residence. The car was a 9 year old Honda with 144,000 miles on it and cost $3500. Never spent a dime on maintenance in 5 years except for a couple of oil changes. I drove to the job on Monday, stayed in an apartment during the week and returned home at the end of the work week. Did this for three years prior to retirement except for 2 6month job assignments overseas; my wife started it every now and then during my absence but never drove it off the driveway. I kept it for another 2 years before selling it since for the last 2 years I barely used it all though it worked without any issues. $ savings by selling were what I would consider insignificant since my fixed costs were $50/year for registration, liability and comprehensive was about $230/yr minus about $125/yr for the multi car discount.

Point is cars do not always have to cost an arm and a leg, riding a bike instead when practical and/or enjoyable can provide the individual a boatload of satisfaction and save some money. It is not necessary to exaggerate those savings to justify the advantage/benefits of bike riding for local transportation purposes.

The serious/significant savings come if it adequately replaces an expensive motor vehicle car only being used for local travel which is more than likely an inappropriate vehicle anyway for someone who has set a high priority on saving as much money as possible.

Walter S

What have I exxagerated? I've had a little worse luck than you describe with maintenance costs. But I don't have some big stake in seeing that people view cars as expensive. Money is actually kind of low on my list of reasons to be car free. And I find some of the economics other than monetary to be more interesting. What I've had to say comes from my personal experience and nothing more.

I-Like-To-Bike

Audio books and tape player way back when, then CD player, and now mp3 players with the ease of free library downloads makes "reading" books while riding or driving quite feasible. Makes bike riding even more enjoyable, long distance car driving less "boring."

I-Like-To-Bike

My remarks are in response to the subject of the thread and not your comments in specific except for the notion that car expenses must go up for cars seldom used because they "don't do well when they sit still."

gregf83 

Gas in Vancouver is around $1.20/liter. My car consumes about 13.5 l/100km. I biked 184 times last year, about 66km/trip.

My avg over last year was 18.6 mph.

Not sure what to say but owning and running an M5 is not inexpensive. As I said in my initial post I could drive a less expensive car but I don't want to. My M5 is 15 yrs old now and I don't want to replace it. If I were to drive an extra 10,000km a year I'd have to replace it much sooner than I'd like.

Quote:

"Sure, but the point is riding a bike is still considerably less expensive than driving"

Why do you care so much? I don't ride my bike to save money, but it does cost less to ride and I feel better. Isn't that enough? You guys need to get out more and stop worrying about minutiae.

edit: I forgot one of the biggest benefits I get from biking is avoiding the frustration of being stuck in slow traffic. It doesn't happen all the time when I drive but often enough to annoy me when it happens. My bike ride may take a little longer but I never get frustrated on the bike.