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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    This Neighborhood Banned Cars for a Month.


  2. #2
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    I love it.

  3. #3
    Senior Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    , in September of 2013, 1,500 cars were moved out of the neighborhood to parking lots elsewhere in the city. Shuttle buses ran every 15 minutes to take people to their cars.
    So, they didn't actually get rid of the cars, they just moved them into a different neighborhood.

    The biggest result: The speed limit was cut nearly in half, to about 18 miles per hour. That meant that commuters no longer wanted to use the neighborhood as a shortcut, and traffic started to disappear.
    That has naturally evolved in the neighborhood where I used to live in Portland.
    The city refuses to re-pave the road unless the residents pay for curbs and sidewalks that aren't needed.
    The residents refuse to pay for the curbs and sidewalks (people walk on the street anyway).

    So, the potholes have grown. Occasionally someone will throw a few shovels full of gravel into the bottoms of the larger ones.

    It is better than speed bumps.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    So, they didn't actually get rid of the cars, they just moved them into a different neighborhood.
    They only banned cars from the neighborhood for a month. What did you expect? That everyone would sell their cars?



    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    That has naturally evolved in the neighborhood where I used to live in Portland.
    The city refuses to re-pave the road unless the residents pay for curbs and sidewalks that aren't needed.
    The residents refuse to pay for the curbs and sidewalks (people walk on the street anyway).

    So, the potholes have grown. Occasionally someone will throw a few shovels full of gravel into the bottoms of the larger ones.

    It is better than speed bumps.
    Curbs and sidewalks aren't needed? Is vehicular cycling dogma now being applied to pedestrians?

  5. #5
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    So, they didn't actually get rid of the cars, they just moved them into a different neighborhood.



    That has naturally evolved in the neighborhood where I used to live in Portland.
    The city refuses to re-pave the road unless the residents pay for curbs and sidewalks that aren't needed.
    The residents refuse to pay for the curbs and sidewalks (people walk on the street anyway).

    So, the potholes have grown. Occasionally someone will throw a few shovels full of gravel into the bottoms of the larger ones.

    It is better than speed bumps.
    Wow, I thought Portland was supposed to be really cool, but I guess there are still some pockets of dystopia. It doesn't sound like a very nice place to walk, ride, bicycle, or use a wheelchair. I can imagine riding through your neighborhood at a good clip after dark, then suddnly hitting one of those potholes filled with gravel. Yikes!

    We have the same thing in Michigan but we call it "recession-era cutbacks" and "dysfunctional government."


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  6. #6
    Senior Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Wow, I thought Portland was supposed to be really cool, but I guess there are still some pockets of dystopia. It doesn't sound like a very nice place to walk, ride, bicycle, or use a wheelchair. I can imagine riding through your neighborhood at a good clip after dark, then suddnly hitting one of those potholes filled with gravel. Yikes!

    We have the same thing in Michigan but we call it "recession-era cutbacks" and "dysfunctional government."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    Curbs and sidewalks aren't needed? Is vehicular cycling dogma now being applied to pedestrians?
    Once the traffic drops down to local neighborhood traffic only, and mostly driving under 10 MPH, then the sidewalks really aren't needed. It is very popular street for people going out for strolls with their dogs, although there are still those people who drive their cars the 1/2 mile to the local grocery store.

    As far as recession economics... the potholes were big around 1995... it now is 20 years later, and they're just bigger now. That would be quite some recession. And, it isn't really in the poor part of town.

    I don't ride my bike 20 MPH on that street either. But, I hate speedbumps, so perhaps it is just better to pick one's path around the potholes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    we call it "recession-era cutbacks" and "dysfunctional government."
    It would be interesting to see what motor-traffic patterns would look like if driving scaled back to 50% of travel with cycling and transit taking up the other 50%. If that happened, road-resurfacing could occur on a less frequent basis, saving the public purse plenty.

    Potholes wouldn't get so bad if drivers would just avoid roads once potholes started forming. Then, those roads would be used for only car free travel for a while until the other roads began falling into disrepair at which point the roads with potholes would be resurfaced and car-free traffic would shift more to the eroding roads. Those roads could even be partially resurfaced for a while with smooth asphalt cycling strips without anywhere near the cost of redoing the whole road for motor-traffic.

    This is how car-free travel and public spending reductions would go hand-in-hand.
    Last edited by tandempower; 05-14-15 at 05:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    Once the traffic drops down to local neighborhood traffic only, and mostly driving under 10 MPH, then the sidewalks really aren't needed.
    At that point, it's the streets that aren't needed.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    We have the same thing in Michigan but we call it "recession-era cutbacks" and "dysfunctional government."
    Back when Davis had lost most of its bikes (mid-'90s) and our mayor was a wonderful artist who was the rare non-student renter, the city had plans to pave several alleys in the oldest part of town. The residents made a huge fuss and eventually convinced the city to leave the pot-holed gravel alleys just the way they were. The folks who live near/on the alleys were aware that a smooth surface would encourage increased speeds, which they did not want in their neighborhood.

    We have similar issues here in Eugene. To put in formal traffic calmers (speed humps, bulb outs, diversions...) there is a complex process that is difficult to impossible to navigate. However, pot holes have no standards. Many of the routes I choose to use through town are on streets that have not been repaired because they tend to have lower traffic levels at lower speeds.

    It's all in the context. Texas is returning many rural roads to gravel because the state does not want to spend the money to keep them paved. That's dysfunctional government. When local residents choose to have one or more parallel routes be structured so as to reduce traffic speed and/or volume, that's responsive, functional government.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nostalgic's Avatar
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    The thought actually crossed my mind today about what a car-ban would look and feel like.

  11. #11
    Senior Member snowman40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    Back when Davis had lost most of its bikes (mid-'90s) and our mayor was a wonderful artist who was the rare non-student renter, the city had plans to pave several alleys in the oldest part of town. The residents made a huge fuss and eventually convinced the city to leave the pot-holed gravel alleys just the way they were. The folks who live near/on the alleys were aware that a smooth surface would encourage increased speeds, which they did not want in their neighborhood.

    We have similar issues here in Eugene. To put in formal traffic calmers (speed humps, bulb outs, diversions...) there is a complex process that is difficult to impossible to navigate. However, pot holes have no standards. Many of the routes I choose to use through town are on streets that have not been repaired because they tend to have lower traffic levels at lower speeds.

    It's all in the context. Texas is returning many rural roads to gravel because the state does not want to spend the money to keep them paved. That's dysfunctional government. When local residents choose to have one or more parallel routes be structured so as to reduce traffic speed and/or volume, that's responsive, functional government.
    What Texas is doing sounds responsible. Assuming they've done the proper research, it makes sense to have gravel versus asphalt roads. A road that has 100 vehicles in a day doesn't necessarily need to be asphalt. You want dysfunctional, take a look at Los Angeles and the Department of Water and Power (DWP), the DWP has a 2 trusts dedicated for safety and the highest on job injury rate of any public utility in the country. And the county supervisors allow it to happen. You can also look at Sacremento and see what they are trying to do to the "urban water users" versus the farmers. I'd rather a state let a road return to gravel than repaving it if the traffic volume doesn't merit a repaving.

    Would I prefer to ride on freshly paved smooth roads, yes. And if that isn't a reality, I'll adjust with wider tires or different style of bike. As bicyclists, we have near limitless possibilities to equipping our bikes to match our riding conditions.
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman40
    If you must speed up to pass me, you don't deserve to pass me
    Quote Originally Posted by abstractform20 View Post
    farts are greatly appreciated as long as the other riders are talented and experienced. at the precise moment of release, a vacuum is formed. this is the optimal time for the rider behind you to get as aero as possible and "ride the brown rhino". his face should be within 2-3mm of the anus to receive maximum benefit (reduced drag...duh, its in a vacuum). i have hit speeds of over 53mph in such conditions.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nostalgic View Post
    The thought actually crossed my mind today about what a car-ban would look and feel like.
    Perhaps they would just ban the cars and not the pickups....

    Oh... that is what it looks like here anyway.

    It would probably work in an inner city neighborhood, but it would require huge infrastructure changes to accommodate the more distant burbs.

    Here, the nearest bus stop is about 4 miles away (4 buses each way weekdays, 2 buses each way weekends), and it is about 8 miles to the middle of town. I live just a little under 20 miles from Mom's house. About 4 miles to my nearest bus stop, and 2 miles from the nearest bus stop to Mom's house. According to Google, going from here to there on the bus, once a day during weekdays I can do it in 1 hr, 24 min. Otherwise, it would take between 3hrs, 56 min and 13 hrs, 27 min. The return trip is between 3 hrs 54 min and 15 hrs, 15 min.

    if the town went car-free, then what about those that commute from out of town? Park & Ride?

    Sometimes I like big things. I've hauled 400+ pounds on my bike trailer a couple of times. Those are heavy loads.

    Wt_407 lbs.jpg

    I haven't hauled a couch home yet... but I have thought about furniture a bit. Thankfully I'm not buying livestock feed.

  13. #13
    Senior Member snowman40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    if the town went car-free, then what about those that commute from out of town? Park & Ride?

    Sometimes I like big things. I've hauled 400+ pounds on my bike trailer a couple of times. Those are heavy loads.

    Wt_407 lbs.jpg
    Well, urban planners would prefer we move there, no park and ride, no car ownership at all. You know, like most cities in Europe. Where they all work, shop and play near where they live. lol Cause that will work in the US, where if we were to spread out evenly there'd be like 80 people per square mile.

    What pray tell were you hauling that was 400 lbs?
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman40
    If you must speed up to pass me, you don't deserve to pass me
    Quote Originally Posted by abstractform20 View Post
    farts are greatly appreciated as long as the other riders are talented and experienced. at the precise moment of release, a vacuum is formed. this is the optimal time for the rider behind you to get as aero as possible and "ride the brown rhino". his face should be within 2-3mm of the anus to receive maximum benefit (reduced drag...duh, its in a vacuum). i have hit speeds of over 53mph in such conditions.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Some cities maybe. But not all.
    http://www.vtpi.org/avip.pdf
    Moving the cars can create some problems.

  15. #15
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    Perhaps they would just ban the cars and not the pickups....

    Oh... that is what it looks like here anyway.

    It would probably work in an inner city neighborhood, but it would require huge infrastructure changes to accommodate the more distant burbs.

    Here, the nearest bus stop is about 4 miles away (4 buses each way weekdays, 2 buses each way weekends), and it is about 8 miles to the middle of town. I live just a little under 20 miles from Mom's house. About 4 miles to my nearest bus stop, and 2 miles from the nearest bus stop to Mom's house. According to Google, going from here to there on the bus, once a day during weekdays I can do it in 1 hr, 24 min. Otherwise, it would take between 3hrs, 56 min and 13 hrs, 27 min. The return trip is between 3 hrs 54 min and 15 hrs, 15 min.

    if the town went car-free, then what about those that commute from out of town? Park & Ride?

    Sometimes I like big things. I've hauled 400+ pounds on my bike trailer a couple of times. Those are heavy loads.

    Wt_407 lbs.jpg

    I haven't hauled a couch home yet... but I have thought about furniture a bit. Thankfully I'm not buying livestock feed.
    Your town would not be able to ban cars unless they greatly fixed the bus system. And note that banning cars is not the same as banning delivery vehicles.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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