Roody

In related news, I see that Ford has a new concept vehicle that is an e-bike with a folding diamond frame. The bike is designed to fit in the back of a car to facilitate mixed mode commutes. The concept bike also has a feature that will warn riders of potholes by vibrating the handlebars.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sure, that will happen when your friendly ebike dealer offers an extra sturdy steel framed touring bike, with an over-powered motor and enough battery punch for at least a 50 mile range. It wil be able to carry a lot of freight, and it will have plug n play options to add more batteries for more range. An on-board charger will be a nice plus, with a retractable cord and plug in to any outlet. There will be regenerative, maintenance-free drum brakes, and an over-built 3 speed transmission. Set it to be able to climb walls in first gear, and go ahead and limit the revs to match 20 mph in 3rd gear. Then (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) people can swap out the sprocket and cruise 40 on the flats if they wish.

Of course, the ebikes can be pedaled sans power, fully charged for ~ 5-10 cents, use bike lanes or ride them on the sidewalk and MUPs, strap two to three kids to them, or readily load them with hundreds of pounds of cargo.

Those are the properties of ebikes under discussion on this thread that will allgedly encourage more people to go car-free or car-light, eh?

Ebike designers haven't quite figured out the weather protection angle yet. Until they do, bicycles and/or motorcycles seem to offer far more value to anyone looking for short distance travel where weather and road conditions are a serious consideration.

BTW, I've seen those outdoor electric outlets in Wisconsin and I suspect other frosty environs may have them for the use of the large segment of the population that depend on the use of their motor vehicle year round. Hardly ideal locations for anyone depending on an ebike for year round transportation.

cooker

Way to miss the point, which is that it was easy to accommodate people's power needs in that situation, just as it will be easy to accommodate the needs of e-bike (and e-car) users wherever they may be located.

Roody

A lot of e-bikes have removable batteries. Just park your bike wherever everybody else parks theirs, carry the battery up to your office or residence to recharge it.

I also look for a lot of the new drone technology to trickle down to bicycles, and vice-versa.

chewybrian 

I'd buy a flying electric bike, if the price was right...

I-Like-To-Bike

You seem to miss the point that few landlords, government agencies or business concerns will furnish a solution to a problem that exists only in your fantasies, i.e. an existing or likely future population of electric vehicle operators, without access to power outlets at their residence or business parking locations, of sufficient size and economic or political clout to make anybody pay attention to them.

Do not expect anyone to invest significant resources into satisfying the "needs" of an infinitesimally small population for little to no reward.

cooker

Thanks, I've linked this to my "car-free predictions" thread.
https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...l#post17926502

Walter S

Good. Will there be a time for public humiliation to be dolled out when the predictions don't come true?

cooker

No doubt the results in general will be ambiguous enough that everyone will claim to have been proven right.

350htrr

I actually have an E-Assist bike. Why you may ask... Because I started to use my bike as transportation sometimes, it's 2X as fast and I arrive 1/2 as sweaty, but I still wanted to pedal... That, and for some assistance for those that need it, is the main reason that anyone should buy an E-Assist bike. If you don't want to pedal and you just use the throttle you would be better off with a moped or motorbike. JMO As for charging it, that should not be a problem, I have never run out of juice yet, there are wall outlets everywhere and the battery is removable so... The bike you just leave where you would leave a normal bike. (but the real trick is) to just get a battery that's good enough for all day, for what you want to use it for. JMO

cooker

Do you "steal" power?

I do sometimes with my laptop.

350htrr

No, I always charge at home or use my solar panel on my camper out of town, (I have enough battery power to do a days ride easily, up to 120Km+ per charge)... What I meant was, where most people work there is power and you can remove the battery and take it in, I don't really see a problem charging there with permission from the boss. 5cents per day or whatever it actually ends up to be is not too much to ask for, or is it?

I-Like-To-Bike

A removable battery certainly is a step in the right direction; equally, if not more useful would be a portable battery with enough capacity to power the ebike at highway speeds as well as power sufficient for legal illumination and signaling for a vehicle to be used on the highway at highway speeds. That might make ebikes more suitable for riding somewhere besides MUPs, bike lanes, and other low speed locations. 2x typical bike speed is still pretty darn slow to ride on a highway except in traffic jams and residential areas.

Are ebikes equipped with brakes adequate to handle safe stopping from highway speeds especially if carrying several hundred pounds of cargo or 2 or 3 children?

350htrr

There are basically 3 types of E-Bikes...
1 E-Assist with only PAS (pedaling assisted sensor) A real bicycle with some help up to 20 MPH/32Km then it cuts out.
2 E-Assist with PAS & throttle most still a real bicycle with some assist, tho most are starting to be more like mopeds and can exceed the speed limits.
3 E-Assist with throttle only, Most of them are a "pretend" bicycle, to get around licencing & insurance laws... Some can go 50MPH.

Some are real E-bikes designed for higher speeds and some are kits people can throw onto practically any bike... How "safe" any of them at speed faster than a real bike I suspect not very safe. JMO

I-Like-To-Bike

Thanks for your informative comments about ebikes based on reality, rather than fantasies and wishful thinking.

Dahon.Steve

I happen to think the easiest e-bilke solution is the Copenhagen wheel. The batteries and motor are all in one and it's not that heavy. This is a tool for the carfree but unfortunately, they weren't able to keep the costs down and it's almost 1K! If they could have sold the wheel under $300.00 dollars, tens of thousands would have sold.

If an Electric Bike Is Ever Going to Hit It Big in the U.S., It's This One - CityLab
https://superpedestrian.com/

prathmann

Which is also its biggest weakness. It's not that heavy since the battery size (and therefore the range/power) is limited. And having the battery built into the wheel means you can't conveniently take it over to the nearest indoor electric outlet for a recharge while you stop at places during the day. Nor can you bring along a larger battery for those days where you might need a little more range.

cooker

Toronto condo developer offering free electric car to buyers | Metro News
The fact that they are offering "free" electric cars is a marketing gimmick, but the fact that they are offering charging stations in their parking garage shows that they are willing to build in facilities that cater to electric vehicles.

tandempower

I think bike-share bikes at transit stops would do more to encourage car-free living than any kind of motorized bike. People don't mind pedaling; in fact they like that aspect of it, I think. What deters them is having to bike for too long a distance and/or leave their personal (expensive) bike locked at a transit stop.

Electric hub motors might encourage more people to get around by bike in areas with hills, wind, or other obstacles to pedaling effectively.

Sun/rain protection would provide security to people that they won't get burned/soaked while riding around town on a bike. A motor might go well with a covered bike because of the heavier frame and covering. Still, the general problem with motorized bikes is that if they go fast enough to overpower wind drag, they lose pedaling effectivity, so in this sense you might as well just get a scooter.

The main benefit (and marketing potential) for ebikes is being able to use the bike lane with a scooter. No one likes sitting in traffic so if there's a legal way for them to use the bike lane with a motorized vehicle, this would be an appeal, even if it means being limited to 20mph.

2manybikes

The market is not there. Not enough people buy them. It's a fraction of a percent of bike sales. (bicycle not Motorcycles).

They are not practical in many situations. Only good for short trips. If you buy one and pedal much you get into shape and then can do better on a bicycle. They are very heavy and hard to pedal if the battery dies. Over 50 lbs. I tired to get one to go faster by pedaling faster,but, the motor would not let that bike go any faster than the 18 mph maximum of the motor.

2manybikes

Would you lift a 50 lb. bike into your trunk? My back only lets me pick up lightweight bicycles.

tandempower

That's a nice looking bicycle! 50 lbs isn't much heavier than lifting a regular bike onto a bike rack, and if it fits well it would be easier because some bike racks require some tricky maneuvring to keep brake cables from catching, etc. I wonder why Ford didn't make a little compartment under the vehicle to hoist the bike up into. Spare tires that hoist up under the trunk in this way by a crank-cable work pretty well. Of course they also get dragged across the pavement a few feet before hoisting up to the undercarriage.

Roody

I'm not sure why you say the bike would weigh 50 pounds. AFAIK, it's just a concept vehicle with no weight known or listed. But yes, I have lifted heavy bikes up steep flights of stairs. Getting one into a trunk wouldn't be a hardship for me personally.

InTheRain

I have an e-bike. Touring bike with a BionX motor and battery. It's pretty good. I'm not car free, but it has allowed me to not buy another car once we got a new driver in the family. I have only commuted to work in my car one time since January. Fortunately, my bike is not "oversized" and it fits in the elevator at work just fine with it's two full size panniers. The bike itself is just under 50 lbs with motor, racks, fenders, lights. I carry about 20 lbs of gear in the panniers. I'm 230 lbs. The motor works great carrying the 300 lbs payload. It's pedal assist only with a range of 25 - 50 miles.

The bike top speed with assist is 20 mph. It is legal in bike lanes as well as MUP's. It is not required to be licensed or insured. It is absolutely silent, you cannot hear the motor. It has been an excellent solution for me. I don't ride it because I want to be car free. I ride it because I enjoy it and it's saving me some money. I follow the developments in the e-bike world. There is some fascinating stuff coming out. I'm looking forward to more improvements in battery technology to increase the range. I'm fine with the power and speeds that are currently provided for bicycles.

Oh... and I also have a 50cc scooter. It is required to be licensed and is not allowed to be in bike lanes or MUP's. It has a top speed of 40 mph. Is rated at 138 mpg ( I get about 110 mpg.) However, I prefer the e-bike over the scooter. The e-bike also has the capacity to carry much larger loads.

350htrr

It would depend on what you think is practical and what kind of $ you want to spend... As for pedaling that depends on what type of system you get. I have one that I can ride just like a regular bicycle, or get some proportional assistance to my pedaling effort 35%, 100%, 200%, 300%, up to 32KM/Hr, or I can use the throttle and not pedal at all, once up to 32KM/hr the assistance cuts out and then I am on my own, but can certainly pedal faster...