tandempower

So many covered human-powered vehicles like this have been designed and somehow almost none make it to market and those that do are too expensive to gain popularity. Something like this could resolve the rain issue for bike-commuting and, with a small air conditioner, would be cool to ride in.

Vollta Student Vehicle Projects

Which of the following factors do you think would weigh most strongly for people against using such a vehicle, even if it meant being able to drive in the bike lane and avoid congestion:
1) safety concerns of riding in a small vehicle without crash protection
2) drawing attention for being 'out of the ordinary' on the road
3) not fast enough
4) concern for reliability problems, mechanical failures, etc.
5) other issues?

kickstart

5) contempt from cyclists.

It seems recumbents, trikes, velomobiles, and E-bikes agitate many cycling enthusiasts, and some even display open hostility towards them.

wolfchild

If somebody needs something that is motorized or power assisted then they should just buy a car and use a car for trips which are impractical to do on a bicycle... I am not a huge big fan of using "amusement park toys" for daily transportation.

CliffordK

A well built velomobile can be faster than an ordinary bicycle.

But, one quickly runs into NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) territory, of which there have been several electric 3 wheelers built, in part due to different motorcycle laws than automobile laws (often sacrificing stability).

Fans are "cheap".
Air conditioners are power hogs, and for a small bike, might take as much energy as propulsion.

As far as the velomobile, one additional issue would be parking space, both at home, and at the final destination.

tandempower

I doubt that would be a factor unless people actively check around to see how others feel about how cyclists feel about such vehicles. I see plenty of recumbents and it just seems like a natural chassis for a rain-proof fairing. Surely rain is the biggest obstacle deterring people from bike commuting who might otherwise consider it.

But cars can't ride in bike lanes. Plus, I get tired of people saying that you can "just buy a car." It is a huge expense and debt commitment just to buy the thing, and then you have to insure, maintain, and fuel it. There's no 'just' about it.

I'm aware of the legal hurdles. I think the best thing is to just think in terms of a recumbent with rain-fairing, and maybe a small motor-assist that doesn't threaten reclassification as a motorcycle.

I'm not a big fan of air-conditioning but it seems to be a big factor for people preferring driving over biking, especially when dressed nice. Any AC on such a bike would probably just mean cooling the air coming in through vents in the fairing.

Yes, bikes park much easier without a bulky body around them, don't they? When will someone invent a 'rain force field' to divert rain? Maybe a strong fan would be sufficient to blow rain off you. Maybe that's the ticket, actually: mounting a solar-powered fan on the front of the bike to blow off rain and add a bit of propulsive thrust. Idk if you could get enough power from a solar panel for that, though.

CliffordK

You might look at the Sinclair, but they never quite caught on. I wonder what would happen if it was basically reintroduced today, 30 years later.



I do think it is natural to combine pedals with a small EV, but it is also a fine line. If the total vehicle weight is less than 50 lbs, then the pedal assist makes a lot of sense. Say you exceed 200 or 300 lbs, then pedal assist becomes much less viable. And, it is apparently hard to keep the weight of a velomobile down.

It is so common to see mopeds, and throttle-type e-bikes being ridden on power only, or perhaps just using the pedals for short stop/start acceleration.

Electronic Assist pedalling makes a lot of sense to essentially force the rider/driver to provide at least some of the power.

tandempower

It went 15mph and lacked weather protection. That means it offered no advantage over a regular bicycle.

The electric boost would appeal to people who want to go faster with less exertion in order not to sweat. Pedaling inside a fairing would make for some hot, humid air and so good ventilation and AC might be welcome, in addition to some power-assist. The key is keeping battery weight low to avoid undermining the pedaling advantage of a light vehicle, as you say.

It also helps keep the vehicle classified as a bicycle so it can ride in the bike lane, which would be the main appeal as a commuting vehicle, I think.

wolfchild

Bad weather has never stopped me from bike commuting. Yes it's true, getting soaked and pelted by freezing rain and ice pellets can feel like crap sometimes, but I still do it... Actually I prefer a bicycle because it gives me more freedom to ride wherever I want. If I run into a serious problem I can put my bike on a bus rack and still get home, you can't do that with a trike or a velomobile.

loky1179

Neither can motorcycles. Those velomobiles look to be at least as wide as a small motorcycle.

CliffordK

In many places, I can drive my Fiat 500 on a road shoulder, and get passed by cars in the regular driving lane.

In a small metro area, the bike lanes offer a safety buffer for bikes, and slow moving vehicles. I wouldn't really care if a moped is cruising along at 30 mph on the shoulder or a street-side bike lane with other traffic on the road at 40 to 60 mph.

Larger metro areas may be different where motorcycles are tempted to crowd through any opening in traffic to get ahead, and a true motorcycle may not be regulated to 20 or 28 mph or whatever the designated speed is.

Rails to trails, MUPS, and off-street bike paths are a little bit different.

At the moment, electric bicycles seem to be mostly allowed on MUPS, but electric scooters and motorcycles are frowned upon. Likewise, gasoline powered bikes/mopeds are also frowned upon. Noise & pollution?

The electric velomobile would likely fall in a hole where they might ride on streetside paths, but be excluded from off-street paths.

I-Like-To-Bike

Why would you drive an automobile like that if the Fiat was not disabled or broken? I presume in most locales it would be illegal as well as dangerous to legal users of the road shoulder such as bicyclists and pedestrians.

ciderguy

1. Bike lanes aren't everywhere. So, there would still be strong safety concerns.
2. I don't care, I take a bike everywhere. Others might.
3. Compared to what? A car? I imagine any such vehicle is going to go around 20mph. That should be plenty fast for short commutes.
4. Compared to what? A car? Unlike a motor vehicle, I've never had a bike strand me anywhere. As long as this thing is light enough to pedal along without the motor, I'd be fine with it.
5. Lots!
- How does one lock this thing up / prevent it from being vandalized.
- Lack of visibility. One of the things that I appreciate on my bike is the high seating position. I can normally stand up to see over regular sized cars, and see down larger hills to know if it is safe to make a left hand turn. I'd be afraid of the lower visibility in something like this.
- It looks awfully hot inside.
- What are the advantages of this over a street legal golf cart?

Walter S

6) It's power assisted. Some people want the purity and environmental qualities and mechanical simplicity of pure human power.
7) It's not a bicycle. The agility and handling is not as good or as much fun.

CliffordK

Have you ever driven a vehicle that is barely 4 feet wide, and sports a half liter engine? It presents some unique issues, especially when driving on longer trips.

kickstart

While I'm not really considering getting one, I find E-bikes and velomobiles very interesting, and read up on them often.
The issue of hostility from traditional cyclists is brought up more often than not, and any mention of them on BF quickly draws many disparaging comments.

One time I caught grief for riding an E-bike on a MUT where its perfectly legal to do so.........and I wasn't even riding an E-bike........the roadies in question knew nothing about Dutch bikes, and thought my Gazelles dynohub with rollerbrake was a motor.

Walter S

Does that cause the car to ride up the shoulder of the road?

CliffordK

Cyclists are an odd group. There is a huge diversity among individuals. However, some are also deeply troubled by the concept that not all cyclists choose to dress like rolling billboards.

Earlier I had considered trying to build a solar electric pedal car. It isn't in the cards at the moment, but I may have renewed interest in the future.

At the moment I'm choosing to be non-driving, but I also realize that it takes a rare breed of person to pound the roads from out of town.

CliffordK

It causes the car to be a bit slow, especially on hills. And, for cars to quickly back up behind it. And, it can make its own pullouts as needed.

wphamilton

As someone with a contraption about as strange as the OP concept, I can confirm that tandempower is right on with this. And mostly with the rest of his post. While there is the very rare hostility or contempt, I think it's less frequent that contempt for a bicycle itself, or even the kind of bicycle. Irrelevant, insignificant. Ironically it's kids who grasp the idea immediately and only certain adults who think they know something (but really don't) that have a problem with it.


This is precisely my problem with the motor assist. It's got to be fast enough to outperform what I can do naturally, otherwise it's just not worth the extra expense, weight and trouble. But when you do get to that point, it's legally a moped or scooter, or even motorcycle. It's not just a matter of registration either. I wouldn't mind a license tag, signal lights or whatever that took. It's that when it does get to that point, further regulations and safety requirements come into effect which are prohibitive to the whole project.

I think that's basically right, but it's a lot more complicated than you'd expect. I have experimented with a top cover on my fairing and I'm drenched within minutes, regardless of the outside temperature. Even with airflow from under the front, which is too cool in really cold weather. It has to flow through, and out-vent in the right place, and that's difficult with respect to aerodynamic effects. It's not an easy problem.


I can actually park mine in a regular bike rack. It's a regular diamond frame, and the body isn't wider than the bike (plus rider body). That's a general issue with the trike being considerably wider and also a large drawback for the aerodynamics, but maybe not for the idea of a body itself.

kickstart

Sounds like you have an original rather than a contemporary model?

I-Like-To-Bike

That doesn't explain why you illegally and dangerously drive on the shoulder; can it not maintain highway speed? Is this really an old 500cc Fiat (last made in 1975), which I would be surprised if it was functional at all, or a 1400 cc current model which should be able to go highway speed.

I'd recommend never driving a motorized vehicle if you are afraid or unable to drive it legally.

Roody

could you take the fairing off in nice weather?

tandempower

Thanks. I appreciate the insights in your post. It is always nice to think further about the concrete details that go beyond the superficiality of these things as they first appear in my mind.

I would hope so. I can also imagine a roll-back convertible-type top. I am biting my tongue not to use the word, 'tarp,' again here Flexible solar voltaic fabric would be especially good for adding power to the battery for the motor and/or AC/fan, though I don't think those solar voltaic fabrics that currently exist generate much energy per unit area. Still, anything would be better than biking with a poncho. As long as the fabric/tarp/convertible-top can protect you from the sun and the rain when you need it to, why not make it removable/retractable for nice weather?

jfowler85

Nailed it.

jfowler85

No, and something tells me I am not missing much.