chewybrian 

If you were going to get a car after being LCF, or already did, what would be the reason? Would it be an economic, philosophical, or pragmatic decision?

I imagine some of you plan to never own a car. Some probably plan to go without as long as their health or living circumstances allow. Some will likely go without only until the budget allows for a car, or they get their license back. What would it take for you, if anything?

wolfchild

For me it would be for economic reasons...If my circumstances in life changed to a point where daily bicycle commuting became impractical then I would buy a car.

Machka 

I was car free for about 6 years. I ceased being car free when circumstances changed and the distance I had to travel was too great to walk or cycle.

A pragmatic decision.

Dahon.Steve

I would have to end up paralyzed to go out and buy a car. I've seen what happens all too often to those who use wheel chairs on public transit and it's not pretty.

Machka 

Really?

There are two people in wheelchairs who, quite regularly, use the buses I take ... and they are very well treated.

chewybrian 

That's pretty much my take. If not having a car became a hardship and I had plenty of money to afford one, then I would get a car.

My attitude has changed somewhat from the past, in that I probably would buy the minimum car I need to get the job done, and use it mostly for needs, and very little for just cruising around. I gave up the car for economic reasons, and I am enjoying having the extra money to spend on other things, or save. I am also enjoying better health from more exercise, and less stress from not driving in traffic or worrying about making insurance payments, etc.

wolfchild

Yes I have a similar attitude towards cars...To me a car is just a tool for getting from point A to point B. I don't look at cars as toys or objects of admiration, I also don't hate cars anymore then I would hate any other tool. I would only drive if I have to.
Going for joy rides, driving to kill time and just driving around aimlessly without any purpose or destination is a waste of time and money.

tandempower

I also don't hate cars individually, although some are built or driven in an obnoxious way that is intentionally aggressive. I actually enjoy seeing well-preserved old cars. The reason I wouldn't even consider getting a car and driving as primary transportation is that I've seen how much people push driving as a norm after LCF for many years. It has also amazed me how the same people who push driving by consistently acting surprised I get around by bike also get defensive about multimodal reforms, as if they would like nothing more than to return to a driving-only cultural state of mind where no other mode is ever realistically factored into transportation planning. As much as I see this attitude of total entitlement to driving and driving-only as a societal paradigm, I couldn't feel good about going along with it. Whenever I do drive, for whatever reason, I feel as if I'm conforming to a covert fascist regime bent on reducing everyone to the OS of a motor vehicle.

lasauge 

I don't bother owning a car because I'm single and don't need to travel outside my city often, if either changed I'd consider owning a car again, though it's not something I would do with any particular excitement.

To echo what others have said, I see cars as tools and going car-free was a decision I made as a practical choice, not because I have a principled opposition to driving. I am opposed to car-centric planning and socially normative attitudes about cars, but those are things that people choose do in response to technology, the car itself isn't the problem.

rockmom

If I were forced by circumstances to move to a rural area.

yooperbiker

I worked as a consulting engineer for many years. I needed to go to project sites, mostly in-state but over four state area overall. Needed to carry computer, camera, basic tools, luggage. I am retired now and don't need a car, but to answer the question, "I would get a car if needed for my job".

I-Like-To-Bike

Are there really very many adults (not teenagers) who do that anymore? Seems to me that that type of activity is mostly a strawman/bogeyman for LCF-types to shake their fists and point fingers at and feel all smug about non participation in such a wasteful activity.

As if car free abstention is required to avoid the shame of driving around aimlessly.

wolfchild

I used to do that before I became a bike commuter and I am no teenager. I would just hit the road and drive when I didn't really have to, it was all for fun. The amount of money I wasted on gas was astounding.

I-Like-To-Bike

I would guess that the amount of total miles driven or fuel expended on such "aimless" driving in the big picture of motorized transportation is relatively small, and tiny for non-teenagers. The percentage of non-teenagers who buy or own a car/truck for this purpose probably is infinitesimal. Motorcycle usage may be different. As you note, there are exceptions.

Hardly enough for anyone to get all smug about not participating; unless a person wanted to include any and all kinds of motoring activity done by others as aimless and wasteful because that person doesn't see any need for it.

tandempower

Something is causing all that traffic, and you have to wonder how many trips could be taken car free if the driver actually put any effort into seriously considering doing so. My impression is that most drivers just live their lives and whenever they want to leave the house to go anywhere, they drive - unless they have conscientiously chosen to put some level of effort into getting around CF when possible. Maybe I'm out of touch but I think many people just don't feel like putting any effort into avoiding driving and that is why there is so much traffic, regardless of the degree of aimlessness and wastefulness of any given trip.

350htrr

+1, I too drove for fun, a lot... My WRX was so much fun to drive that I was hooked and just drove for no reason than the thrill of driving. 314,000Km in 7 years, then I bought my STi and drove it for 2 years and put 86,000KM on it, and I was trying to cut back and only drive when "needed" ... Finally I bought a Prius and that worked... Now I ride my E-Assist bike for some things too...

EDIT; To put that into perspective, I now have driven the Prius for 2 years and have 32,000KM on it... 5,500Km on the bike.

wphamilton

I had a sudden opportunity for a much better job, and I bought a car because it was a good ways further and I didn't want to chance being late or missing a day. Also, not having the benefit of this forum, nor even knowing anyone else who was bicycle commuting full time over that distance, I wasn't completely sure that it was physically possible for me. I did use it to drive in one or two days per week at first.

Now that I helped my 19 year old son buy a pickup for his work, we're a two-car household and I can't even claim to be car-light any more. But I do still commute 100% by bike and enjoy all of the benefits that that entails.

chewybrian 

I used to do that a lot years ago, even after my teenage years. I often drove a long way for entertainment, like playing golf or going to the races.

Like many others, I did not give much thought to planning my errands efficiently, as I could always go back out for anything I forgot. The problem is when you only consider the cost of the fuel, then it does not seem like much expense. In reality, the true cost to you and others can get quite high. In addition, many folks live too far from work, or have two cars when one would do, based on this false economics.



There is also a 'security blanket' effect when you have a car, just in case you 'need' to go somewhere. I definitely had this effect. Even as I realized that going without a car was the right choice for me, I still was very apprehensive at first: "what if, what if...?".

So, yes, there is a great deal of wasteful driving going on, based on the fact that few consider the real cost of driving, and much of the cost is already sunk in taxes and such, making the marginal cost artificially low.

Juha

My story: https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...dark-side.html

TL, DR: pragmatic reasons. But no matter what happens with the car, I need to return to commuting by bike in not too distant future. I just have to find a way to make it work. The occasional bus commute never bothered me much, but it's different when you know you'll be doing it regularly.

--J

MikeRides

I live out in the sticks, and went car free for a little over a year. Got by just fine even with a 25-30 mile one way commute daily, for that period with just the use of my bike. I was all set to sell my car once I finished fixing it up but decided to keep it around "for emergencies". Then something came up and I was forced to find a new job, which has me commuting at 3am. Completely unsafe around here by bike, so I became car LIGHT and just drove to work and driving my goddaughter to practices and stuff. Today, I'm trying to return to being car LIGHT, but with my aging parents (both can't drive any longer and have regular doctor appointments about 45miles away) living with us, and my GF is 6 months pregnant - its the last thing on my mind.

Walter S

I used to drive my bicycle to places to ride such as mountain destinations 200 miles from the city, a couple weekends per month or so. Then every couple months I'd take a four day weekend trip somewhere where two days of recreation (probably including driving to a beach, state park, etc) are sandwiched between two travel days, driving most of the day. Then once a year on average, a much longer driving trip that might be 10 days of travel and camping in a Volkswagen Vanagon.

I also ran (presumably) important errands around town fetching this or that from Home Depot, Walmart, etc. I not only have a greatly reduced number of trips now, there's less crap involved.

Machka 

Regarding "driving aimlessly" or not putting any real thought into planning errands efficiently ...

In the interests of saving time and money, the vast majority of my (our) driving trips are as brief and efficient as possible. We make a list of where we need to go, and sort the places in an order that has us travelling the shortest distance possible. And where possible, I (and now we) prefer to drive directly to a central location and walk or cycle where we need to go.

Perhaps it has something to do with fuel prices, but from my observations a lot of people do that. I won't say everyone does. I won't even say that the majority do. But it isn't uncommon.

B. Carfree

I guess there's the issue of what qualifies as aimless driving. If I don't count anything that has some sort of destination, even just sitting on top of a bluff to look at the ocean, then it could be quite low, perhaps even trivially low as you guess. However, it seems to me that a reasonable definition is any driving that isn't for the purpose of getting to work, shopping for needed goods or getting to an appointment for some service (like medical). If someone is going recreational shopping, driving somewhere to go for a recreational bike ride or just to enjoy the countryside, then that's pretty much aimless driving to me. I prefer to call it recreational driving, which better describes it.

kickstart

I think you are correct. Except for enthusiasts, most people just want to get where they want to be with the least amount of effort. Driving, and dealing with traffic may be tedious, but its still the fastest, most efficient way to get around for most people.

I-Like-To-Bike

Then I presume you consider any and all activities as "aimless" unless for the purpose of work, shopping (only for goods you consider necessary) or an appointment for some service (like medical). And of course in your vision of a society of drones, all recreational activities are considered "aimless."