PhotoJoe 

Very well said....and yet here we are on page 11 with no end in sight.

Roody

I'm listening...and trying to do better.

chewybrian 

This is the opposite of the truth. Gas is $5.54 per gallon in U.S. dollars today in Frankfurt, Germany. Why is the price two and a half times what it is here? Because their tax system puts more of the burden on drivers to pay as they go for the roads and the impact of their driving.

This is all that most of the people in this forum expect and deserve: not a free ride for us, but an end to the free ride for drivers. If you consider this a scheme, then Germany has been scheming along with most of the rest of the world for a long time.

Astrozombie

Looks like i will have to, job requires a truck to lug equipment, plus when it gets cold and dark early and you just don't feel like dealing with terrible streets/traffic/pedaling/waiting for a bus, sitting in a car pushing a pedal out of the elements is a whole lot more tempting. Gas is also only $3 now.

Walter S

All true. Still, I find resisting the easy choices a little bit makes me stronger and also opens up more enriching and rewarding adventures. And by living car free I somehow find opportunities for making my life easier that didn't even seem to be available when I was driving. That too gives me a nice feeling of satisfaction in the end.

I-Like-To-Bike

$3 now? It is $1.98/gal here for regular.

wphamilton

I did go from years of car-free to owning cars, so I'll weigh in on this again.

I have to laugh at myself, for my own reasons to have been car-free and otherwise. So much of it is tied up with self-perception, and the image you project, and I think that applies to everyone unless you're some kind of zen-master buddist monk. (Which I'd say respectfully btw)

I can tell you that initially it was 100% practical, a matter of dollars and cents to not have a car, and in a sense that is something that uniquely applies only to car free people. After a while I got the notion, hey I'm helping to save the planet one ride at a time. And I could conveniently embrace that ethical/political philosophy because after all, it wasn't costing me anything. Then getting in good physical condition with improved health, when that came later it became an important reason. The funny thing, in my experience, is that these reasons came mostly from other people. People would bring it up in casual conversation, assuming to try to make sense of the lifestyle, and I could go with that. Talked me into it!

Don't get me wrong: those were real and legitimate motivations. But after a period of time, the real reason and the reason I still commute exclusively by bike is something other people didn't expect and often don't seem to accept: I think it's fun and feels good, and I hate sitting in traffic especially in nasty weather.

I have a late-model but practical car, the nicest I've ever owned in fact, and I really enjoy it. I feel absolutely no guilt about owning or driving it, to the consequences to the environment, supporting the "evil infrastructure" or any other indirect repercussions. I can still save the planet when I ride, enjoy all of the physical benefits, skip the traffic snarls, and drive somewhere when I feel like it. Why not, when the only real downside is that it costs so much?

kickstart

That's an interesting point of view.
I did' t get a drivers licence until I was 22, and have used a motorcycle or bicycle as my primary transportation most of my life. Except for a few times when there was financial limitations, its always been entirely due to desire and need. I don't consider myself a font of "zen" or "cool", and can honestly say image or perception hasn't been a consideration.

wphamilton

I rode a motorcycle exclusively for much of my early life. The bottom line is, it's just the way you get around. When I look back objectively, aside from pragmatic reasons (which weren't as significant as I might have thought at the time) the main reasons for that were self-image, habit, and the simple pleasure of the motorbike. These are all related to ego. That's not meant to be pejorative, just honest.

Driving a car, and the kind of car you select, usually has more to do with ego and image than do these other choices.

kickstart

I get what you're saying, its just that personally, and probably fairly common for folks to prefer a certain mode of transportation without any image or perception considerations.
I fully agree it can be a primary consideration. As a motorcyclist I'm sure you're well acquainted with the all consuming image and lifestyle of some Harley riders who are compelled to broadcast it at all times.

The fact that ones choices reflect ones personality is different than making choices to establish it.

Machka 

In our case it was because the vehicle (a large van) was 4WD and had the capacity to haul a lot of stuff ... like bicycles and firewood and things.

We needed exactly that when we got it because we lived out in the middle of absolutely nowhere with a long muddy cowtrack to get to the nearest gravel road. 4WD was essential!! And we wanted the hauling capacity.


It's not exactly the vehicle a person would drive if they were concerned about image.

But it sure has been practical. Rowan has even devised a way we can camp in it, and we have done.

Roody

Same here. The hardest part of a journey is the first few steps or the first few pedal strokes. After that, I really start getting into the experience and enjoy something about it. In retrospect, the rides remembered as the best ones were pure hell when they first started.

Walter S

There are other downsides that get discussed in this forum regularly, some of which you mentioned in your post. You may not embrace them as significant or worthwhile (such as the environmental consequences). But they're real to many people. In some cases maybe myself and others do these things because of self-image. How do you sort that out? But if you're doing good for the world and feeling good about yourself then so be it.

I like the built-in "adventure" aspect of car free too. There are plenty of times that I know based on my mood, etc. of the moment that I would get in the car and drive somewhere if I had that option. But I don't dwell in that pointless territory as a car free person. I do whatever it takes and in the process find myself more integrated into the world around me with more varied experiences than I would encounter in the insulated cage of the car.

To each his own though - I'm car free but only because I find the sacrifices to be very tolerable in my personal situation. I would buy and own a car too given more challenging circumstances. And do so without "guilt" also. It's easy to let go of guilt if you can do so with hundreds of millions of other drivers.

I share your love for bicycle commuting. It's so liberating to not sit stuck in traffic in a car. It's such a better way to start (and end) a workday, getting outdoors in the "real" world and energizing your body. And it naturally integrates fun into every day and places it before the work. Plus keeps us fit and strong. It's all good. Ironically I've been telecommuting for months lately. I don't like that nearly as much. Nobody gets that. They think telecommuting is the nirvana of working.

wphamilton

I leave it to philosophers The only difference it makes is if I know for an objective fact why I'm doing something, I might prefer to do something else. But probably not.

I totally get that. Aside from the commute itself being a plus, for me telecommuting can mean more distractions, and working into the night. And it's easier to get into the zone at work.

Roody

Are you no longer carfree then?
If so, getting back to the OP question--- What made you decide to quit being carfree and get a car?

Siu Blue Wind

LOL Yep. Let's get back on topic.

Sangetsu

Hot summers, cold winters, a long rainy season, and going shopping in more distant places where the prices aren't so high, and being able to get around with the entire family together.

kickstart

Car light. Circumstances, and desire have had me bounce between bike, motorcycle, and a car on a few occasions. I don't assign any emotional, or ideological value to my choice of transportation, it is what it is, nothing more to it.

Mobile 155

We must be related. Though I do admire a quality piece of equipment. A clean looking groupo or a well designed saddle, bike or motorcycle. I even admire a well designed car. But I still like to use the best tool for the job at hand. As I have said if not having a car and only riding a motorcycle counts as car free I have been car free. Marriage, children, promotions and housing choices gave me a different perspective on what was important as a family provider.

Sometimes the choices we have made during our working years allows us to move beyond just basic needs to having a few caprices we can indulge. And yes I know that there are some minimalists that find that thinking selfish and decadent. But then it is after part of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Roody

We have seen time and again, on this forum and elsewhere, that many carfree people have family responsibilities, beautiful homes and impressive resumes.

There's great diversity among carfree/carlight families. These are people who live in cities, suburbs, and rural areas. Some are materialistic, and others subscribe more to "simpler" values. They don't feel limited or constricted by their choice not to own an automobile. Like you, they are making choices that they believe are appropriate for themselves and their families. Many carlight/carfree people come to this forum for support, information, and encouragement.

Mobile 155

I didn't say anything about successful car free people who would never use a car. By some standards none of them would be posting in this thread. I have heard many in these threads say they are car free because of accidents, DUIs, loss of jobs, or simply can't afford the expenses. Some have said they would rather earn less, which would include less for their family, than own, drive or use a car. It is to that thought I was speaking about the condemning attitude some have at a picture of someone using financial success as an spring board to a more abundant life style. I am sure there are some that have financially benefited from being car free but I can't for the life of me see what they could add to the question asked in this thread?

Roody

The question asked in the OP was why WOULD you get a car, not why DID you get a car. I think carfree people would be free to answer such a question. I personally was also interested in hearing why some formerly carfree people got a car, as that info might be helpful to those who are trying to remain carfree or become carfree. I didn't see the OP as an invitation to make not-so-subtle innuendos about carfree people being irresponsible losers, but knock yourself out if that's your belief.

Walter S

I get part of that sentence. Anymore?

Mobile 155

I see you are getting even better at assuming what someone else is saying even if they never say it. I think you may be reading too much into any statement that doesn't have Pom poms waving for one particular point of view. While it rolls off of my back I wonder how the poster from Japan took your tirade on his comment about how hard it was to afford a car in Tokyo? It is simply a internet conversation there is no reason to take it so personally or assume the worst about every non approved post.

chewybrian 

Someone should start a thread with a poll to get a real idea of why people here are choosing to go without a car. From my unscientific noticing, I don't think DUI even registers on the meter, unless you are making a tally of perceived reasons we don't have cars. I see the biggest stated reason as environmental concerns, followed by financial considerations. However, with the money-savers, most could afford a car, but choose to go without to spend money on other choices. Probably simplifying or choosing to work part-time would be third.


I definitely count myself here. I used the money I used to spend on driving to turn my finances around. I bought a condo and quit paying rent, for one. It relates to the question in that my time to buy a car is when I think the car could do me more good than the money it would cost. When all the expenses related to the car represented a non-material portion of my discretionary income, then I would be willing to buy a car again. That would be my primary motivation to give up lcf, though employment or health issues could force me to buy, too.

Actually...

But the rest of it rings true. This is the outside perception of anyone choosing to go without a car:






The reality shown in these pages (if anyone bothers to read them without trying to snip out of context to validate their prejudices) is that we are diverse, like any group of people sharing one attribute.